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bluesynight View Drop Down

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Topic: what about joe satriani?
Posted: April 02 2008 at 12:35

steve vai and petrucci have "pages", but satriani dont?

Queen By-Tor View Drop Down

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Posted: April 02 2008 at 12:59

I'm a huge Satch fan... HUGE! (I'm even listening to his newest album right now) But I don't think that his inclusion is truly warranted on the Archives.

He's an excellent guitarist and composer... but prog he ain't. Petrucci is here because he's an excellent prog guitarist... and Vai's inclusion has always boggled my mind (as much as I like him) but even he has come up with some more progressive tunes like Fire Garden Suite, Under It All, and most of his newest studio album.

I'd love to review some Satch, but I wouldn't call him prog.

Edited by King By-Tor - April 02 2008 at 13:00

bluesynight View Drop Down

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Posted: April 02 2008 at 14:12

vai? ok i can see why his here, but petrucci? why? what was so special about Suspended Animation? why is it more prog then, lets say..."crystal planet". is iron maiden is prog? no but it still here, and so is kong. and so is queen? you telling me that queen is more prog then satch? if those bands are here, then he should be here to!!!

Angelo

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Posted: April 02 2008 at 15:30

Welcome to ProgArchives, bluesynight. Thumbs%20Up

In view of your question, I think it's wise to have a look at the definition of our "Prog-related" category, where you'll find a.o. Iron Maiden. These bands are related to prog for various reasons, but are not considered prog themselves. Just click on Prog Related on the site's main page and you'll get all the info you need on that.

As far as Satriani is concerned: a forum search will do the trick there, he's been discussed before.

Enjoy your time here!!!

To all others: no newbie-bashing please, or I'll know where to find you Cool

Edited by Angelo - April 02 2008 at 15:37

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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down

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Posted: April 02 2008 at 16:36

bluesynight wrote:

queen? you telling me that queen is more prog then satch?

Absolutely. Do you know Queen II?

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bluesynight View Drop Down

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Posted: April 02 2008 at 16:48

thanks for the welcoming....
my question is a little bit different, i want to know why some shredders such as vai and petrucci are here, and paul gilbert satriani and malmsteen are not.

vai:
"Progressive guitar composer and Zappa alumni"...
.................................................................................................................................................................................................

Progressive guitar composer? if that enough to be considered as prog related? then malmsteen should be here to.

Zappa alumni? whats that got to do with any thing?

petrucci:

"Because, if we list all the stuff of DREAM THEATER, all his participations on other projects such as LTE or Jon Finn Group, we have to accept that we are in front of a modern Icon of Progressive Rock and Heavy Metal. Thats Why".
..................................................................................................................................................................................................

you judging his solo work by his work with DT, and that just stupid..

fine, heres one on satriani...

one of the bast shredders of all time, he was a teacher to some of the greatest guitar player including STEVE VAI, Kirk Hammett , David Bryson , Kevin Cadogan , Larry LaLonde Primus, Possessed, Alex Skolnick , Rick Hunolt , Phil Kettner , and Charlie Hunter. he played with deep purple, and he "created the g3.

i think its sounds batter then "modern Icon of Progressive Rock and Heavy Metal. Thats Why".

Queen By-Tor View Drop Down

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Posted: April 02 2008 at 17:19

bluesynight wrote:

fine, heres one on satriani...

one of the bast shredders of all time, he was a teacher to some of the greatest guitar player including STEVE VAI, Kirk Hammett , David Bryson , Kevin Cadogan , Larry LaLonde Primus, Possessed, Alex Skolnick , Rick Hunolt , Phil Kettner , and Charlie Hunter. he played with deep purple, and he "created the g3.

i think its sounds batter then "modern Icon of Progressive Rock and Heavy Metal. Thats Why".

Yes... but does that make him progressive according to the guidelines and elements of this site?

No one here is doubting that he's a great guitarist... but that does not make him progressive.

debrewguy

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Posted: April 02 2008 at 17:25

I wonder if some of his new millenium albums might be given a listen to. True, he is a rocker, but for a few albums strayed into more experimental music such as Engines of Creation & Crystal Planet. Now don't ask me for a review, but a buddy of mine who's a Satch fan described them as less of your typical guitar album than a lot of his stuff.

"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.

bluesynight View Drop Down

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Posted: April 02 2008 at 17:27

well nether is vai or petrucci(as a solo performer). so why they are here?

again vai:

"Progressive guitar composer and Zappa alumni"

what exactly make him progressive according to the guidelines and elements of this site?

Angelo

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Posted: April 02 2008 at 17:29

bluesynight wrote:

<...snip...>

you judging his solo work by his work with DT, and that just stupid..

<...snip...>

So your question is different, as are some of the views you express. Let's avoid calling each other things we might regret later. I already mentioned that I will not tolerate 'newbie-bashing', but for the newbie (that's you Wink

), I will add to this that I will also not tolerate 'site-bashing'...

Now, carry on...

Edited by Angelo - April 02 2008 at 17:30

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Queen By-Tor View Drop Down

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Posted: April 02 2008 at 17:37

bluesynight wrote:

well nether is vai or petrucci(as a solo performer). so why they are here?

again vai:

"Progressive guitar composer and Zappa alumni"

what exactly make him progressive according to the guidelines and elements of this site?

King By-Tor wrote:

He's an excellent guitarist and composer... but prog he ain't. Petrucci is here because he's an excellent prog guitarist... and Vai's inclusion has always boggled my mind (as much as I like him) but even he has come up with some more progressive tunes like Fire Garden Suite, Under It All, and most of his newest studio album.

Vai has done a number of longer symphonic compositions most of which feature a number of speed changes... and I took this right from the prog related description

Prog Related is the category that groups bands and artists that:

- Without being 100% Prog, received clear MUSICAL influence of this genre, OR

- Are widely accepted as MUSICALLY influential to the development of Progressive Rock by the community, OR

- Blend characteristics of Progressive Rock with mainstream elements creating a final product that despite not being part of the genre is evident that are close to Prog.

We specify the word MUSICAL because simple performance of a determined instrument in a Prog or mainstream band is not justification enough to include an artist, no matter how virtuoso he/she may be, Prog Archives has to evaluate their compositional work because the music is what determines the characteristics of a band or an artist.

I'm not trying to bash you here... but you need a stronger arguement

bluesynight View Drop Down

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Posted: April 02 2008 at 17:48

ok, so you say that vai is here becouse of the symphonic compositions?

then why malmsteen is not here? hes done the same thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lynUMFJRiik

Queen By-Tor View Drop Down

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Posted: April 02 2008 at 17:49

King By-Tor wrote:

...Vai's inclusion has always boggled my mind...

But it's not about Vai... it's about Satch

Edited by King By-Tor - April 02 2008 at 17:51

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Posted: April 02 2008 at 17:59

It's interesting that this suggestion was started.... I just put up this poll yesterday

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=47551

I'd be happy to discuss Satch in this thread with you... but as fellow fans Thumbs%20Up

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Posted: April 02 2008 at 18:01

nothing is automatic.. every decision made and artist added (especially one that will draw controversy as Satch) is carefully considered, and rarely based on a "that band is here so why not this one" reasoning.. currently the best place for Joe would probably ProgRelated but even that's stretch since he isn't really related to Prog at all, and if Yngwie or Greg Howe or George Bellas were added, that would have little bearing on any other 'shredder' or instrumentalist

MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down

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Posted: April 02 2008 at 18:07

*sigh* ... Vai is very different from Malmsteen. Those of you who don't agree ... well, I hope that you'll continue to listen to music, increase your knowledge / broaden your horizon and one day maybe you'll understand.

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Dean

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Posted: April 02 2008 at 18:11

We do not include or exclude artists based upon comparisons with other artists, but only on their own merits by the music they have recorded.

"Prog" is not a comparative value - you can only say that "A" is more prog then "B" in subjective terms, therefore we try to avoid this when assessing artists for inclusion into the archive and judge the music presented against the definitions for each sub-genre.

Whether Vai, or Petrucci, or di Meola, or Frith, or Hackett, or Gilmour, or Howe, or Manzanera, or Fripp, or McLaughlin, or Zappa, or Beck are included in the archive has no bearing on the inclusion of any other "great" guitarist.

Under some circumstances an artist may be considered for Prog Related if it can be shown that there is some relationship to Progressive music in the work that they have produced.

Edited by darqDean - April 02 2008 at 18:13

What?

bluesynight View Drop Down

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Posted: April 02 2008 at 18:13

for me "they" all "just" shredders, and i really trying to understand why some are here and some are not. and i think that if you consider petruccis "suspended animation" as prog, then all of Satch albums are prog. the only difference is that petrucci plays with DT, and i dont see why its got something to do with his solo album.

ok dont put satch, but can you answer me why petrucci is here?

debrewguy

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Posted: April 02 2008 at 18:16

bluesynight wrote:

ok, so you say that vai is here becouse of the symphonic compositions?

then why malmsteen is not here? hes done the same thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lynUMFJRiik

Yngnut, I mean, Yngwie's ego is too big to get through the door. Of course now his puffy face almost matches his overblown opinion of himself. Wacko

"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.

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Posted: April 02 2008 at 18:18

bluesynight wrote:

the only difference is that petrucci plays with DT

that's a big difference, not to mention LTE and Explorer's Club