Judas Priest (Prog Metal)

This is exactly the reason why I posted what I did earlier on... There is not enough open-mindedness around this site to consider EACH band on their own merits, and this leads to friction and unpleasant remarks galore.

The sad truth is, no one trusts other members to know enough about music to suggest a band  or artist on account of their prog quotient, and not just because they like them. No one believes that Judas Priest  have been suggested after someone has actually LISTENED to their albums, knowing full well that they have NOTHING to do with AC/DC, Def Leppard or Kiss (to name but three). No one stops to consider that Journey, though well known for their AOR career, released three fully prog albums prior to that, unlike Toto, Survivor or Foreigner. They may be seen as part of the same movement, but they are NOT the same band.

In my very humble opinion, stating  that some suggest controversial bands for addition just because they like them is very offensive to the people involved, because it implies that they don't know a thing about music, and are just pursuing their own agenda.

laplace wrote: I've always thought of Iron Maiden and Judas Priest as the metal blueprint. It's interesting to hear someone say that they're progressive because it makes me wonder what metal *wouldn't* be progressive when so many subsequent bands are based on their style... o:)

rushfan4 wrote: I seriously don't want to go here because I would like to keep this discussion friendly, but we have all heard the same Genesis argument.  Genesis is the blueprint for Adult Contemporary Pop.  Should they be excluded from the Archives because of that?  And please, I am absolutely not suggesting Genesis shouldn't be in PA, because obviously they are one of the founding bands of prog, and belong here.

Well, there is a big difference between Genesis and Judas Priest in that regard: The first albums of Judas Priest were probably never regarded as Prog Rock or received much attention from the prog community back when they were released - the early Genesis albums on the other hand became blueprints of the genre. So I think that specifically for bands which only released one or two progressive albums in their career and then turned away from prog it's important to see how important/relevant the prog albums are - either in the scope of the artist discography or their genre.

BTW: If they don't get added ... don't be too sad, I think that most of us long time members have a band which we suggested and which got turned down. For me it was Metallica, and I accepted M@x's decision.


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - March 15 2008 at 12:24

 

MikeEnRegalia wrote: rushfan4 wrote: I seriously don't want to go here because I would like to keep this discussion friendly, but we have all heard the same Genesis argument.  Genesis is the blueprint for Adult Contemporary Pop.  Should they be excluded from the Archives because of that?  And please, I am absolutely not suggesting Genesis shouldn't be in PA, because obviously they are one of the founding bands of prog, and belong here.  Well, there is a big difference between Genesis and Judas Priest in that regard: The first albums of Judas Priest were probably never regarded as Prog Rock or received much attention from the prog community back when they were released - the early Genesis albums on the other hand became blueprints of the genre. So I think that specifically for bands which only released one or two progressive albums in their career and then turned away from prog it's important to see how important/relevant the prog albums are - either in the scope of the artist discography or their genre. BTW: If they don't get added ... don't be too sad, I think that most of us long time members have a band which we suggested and which got turned down. For me it was Metallica, and I accepted M@x's decision.

as the expert in the genre Mike.. .it is your call to decide IF JP was the blueprint of the genre.. if so ... I would go as far as to say you should include them. Even if they don't match what PM has BECOME.  The site is ..or should be educational as well as informative. 


I know what Mark would say


Edited by micky - March 15 2008 at 12:33

Agreed.  And I am in absolutely no way suggesting that Judas Priest are more progressive then Genesis.  It was a stupid point to make, but my first post was very specific in saying that Priest are a metal band, but that I think they might be eligible for PA based on their first couple of albums, and yet people still post things regarding their entire career.  I am not saying their entire career they were a prog band. 

micky wrote: as the expert in the genre Mike.. .it is your call to decide IF JP was the blueprint of the genre.. if so ... I would go as far as to say you should include them. Even if they don't match what PM has BECOME.  The site is ..or should be educational as well as informative.  I know what Mark would say

In my humblest of opinions Judas Priest are not a blueprint for prog metal. The NWoBHM could be seen as a forerunner of what I call "modern metal" - and that label includes both prog and non prog metal. In a direct comparison based on their NWoBHM albums I would say that Iron Maiden influenced the development of prog metal more than Judas Priest did.

rushfan4 wrote: Agreed.  And I am in absolutely no way suggesting that Judas Priest are more progressive then Genesis.  It was a stupid point to make, but my first post was very specific in saying that Priest are a metal band, but that I think they might be eligible for PA based on their first couple of albums, and yet people still post things regarding their entire career.  I am not saying their entire career they were a prog band. I don't think it was a stupid point, and I didn't gather from your post that you think that Priest are more progressive than Genesis. I was only trying to explain why people might be more willing to tolerate Genesis' non-prog period than that of Judas Priest. There are plenty of bands on PA who only released 1 or 2 albums and then broke up and were never heard from again, or their members went on to do non-prog projects.  And they are here. They weren't groundbreaking.  99% of the posters on PA may not have even heard of them.  I guess that what I am saying is that if Judas Priest had stopped making music after Sin After Sin and if based on those 3 albums they would be included on PA, then the fact that they went on to release 20 non-prog albums should have no bearing on the decision of including them.  If it is decided that those 2 or 3 albums are not progressive enough by the power that be, then I might still disagree, but I can accept it.  If the admins don't want to included them in Prog-related, I can accept that.  There are plenty of other bands that deserve mention and attention for inclusion on PA. The limitation to genre per artist would be an obvious problem, should JP be added as a fully fledged prog band. If we base the decision on their early albums they could for example be added to Heavy Prog, and people would constantly ask why they're not in Prog *Metal*. If we add them to Prog Metal people would constantly complain about albums like British Steel being not prog.   Response to BTW:  I would accept the decision and live with it and not go stomping off to my room in a pout.  And also, as you might recall I went out on the line for Phil Collin's inclusion in Prog-related so I know I have to watch my back around here.

^ I'm not familiar with all the Rush albums of that period, but knowing both Moving Pictures and Snakes & Arrows I must say that I think they're prog.

The first two albums just sound like Sabbath-worship to me with a few other elements. The names I keep seeing in reviews for these albums are "Black Sabbath" and "Deep Purple" and I definitely hear those influences. I don't hear anything progressive, though. I don't think it would be a good idea to open up the "prog-related related" genre...

From AllMusic guide review of Sad Wings of Destiny: Although neither as commercially successful nor as technically flashy as subsequent releases, Sad Wings of Destiny was an important milestone in the eventual development of the progressive metal subgenre, and established a standard of excellence to which Judas Priest would adhere through the remainder of the '70s.

Edited by rushfan4 - March 15 2008 at 15:33