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StyLaZyn 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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 Posted: February 13 2008 at 18:50 |
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210
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Posted: February 13 2008 at 22:49 |
 oroboross wrote:
Dream Theater has one thing going for them above every other progrock/metal band. They have done it all without the support of radio. During the '70s radio was the greatest supporter of progrock. That has not been the case since the '80s to present. DT has continued to write original complex music since the late '80s that appeals to very large amount of people around the world for one reason, they write music for their fans and not for the reasons almost every other band writes, for the bucks and charts. Even Fates Warning who have been around longer than any other progmetal band has not had the success that DT has. Why? Talent. As great as Fates is DT has gone beyond where Fates went and took progmetal to the place progrock was during it's heyday. DT needs nothing but to keep writing for their fans and ignore everybody who thinks they know what DT needs. |
I agree with most of those points, but where do we draw the fine line as to what is 'writing for the fans' and 'writing for themselves'? Dream Theater has fans that have a more narrow view of what they should sound like, while some like me, want to see them expand as much as possible. Albums like ToT, seriously divided many fans, because I think that album was written for themselves first and foremost. To many people it didn't fall within the expected DT sound, not 'classic DT' enough. But for the rest of us, it still had many recognisable elements of their sound, but we loved ToT, because it showed us a side of DT we had not heard before, and IMO still continued to expand upon what they had done prior to ToT.
I tend not to expect too much of a particular sound from DT, because I know they are capable of doing something different each time. I'm no fan boy, I've never been in love with everything they did (as I mentioned in an earlier post, Octavarium was not exactly a favourite of mine), but I will always believe they will have some creative steam left to release.
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: February 14 2008 at 16:01 |
Lonely Progger wrote:
I do consider Labrie a but as a musical deadweight ^^, How can you respect a singer who doesn't contribute to the music and doesn't even write the lyrics he sings !
But he must feel crushed by Petrucci's and Rudess' musical knowledge most of the time and he isn't really a progger to, Mike Portnoy said he listened to maroon 5 and stuff like that . So it must be quite hard for him to find his place in the machine that is Dream theater.
Top rate albums to you, but not to the majority so would you have nothing to say ?
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Based on what you have typed here, it seems to me that you a) Dislike LaBrie because he doesn't play an instrument (by the way, he DOES write lyrics, just not every album), and you b) Think that Mike Portnoy shouldn't be respected since he likes to diversify his musical taste and listen to something other than prog every now and then. Am I correct so far?
Well, based on that, you and I seem to be very different people, so I don't know if you will share my opinion on this, but hey, I'll give it a whirl anyway . . .
Personally, I think Octavarium was one of DT's best albums in years, because they went back to what made them truly great to begin with: they lessened the extended solos, gave the keyboards a more tastefull and atmohperic role, and had a diverse collection of song styles grouped together. Systematic Chaos was a letdown for me, because for the first time (not even on ToT did I feel this way) it seems that DT wants to be nothing but a straightforward metal band. It isn't because of the label change, because Opeth is still the same band post-Roadrunner signing, so it was obviousely the band's choice to go that one-dimentional. Petrucci once said in an interview that he wouldn't respect himself if he wrote completely fictional lyrics. Well, every single one of his songs on SC were ridiculous, typicall metal lyrics telling stories of zombies, vampires and other such nonsense. Way to raise the bar there, John. 
So in my opinion, what Dream Theater ''needs'' is a wake-up call. But let's hope that this madness was only for this one record.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: February 14 2008 at 16:03 |
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EnglishAssassin
Forum Groupie
Joined: December 24 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 83
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Posted: February 14 2008 at 16:51 |
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Fewer fanboys.
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rileydog22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 8844
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Posted: February 14 2008 at 18:59 |
EnglishAssassin wrote:
Fewer fanboys.
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Peter? Is that you? What did we tell you about hacking people's accounts and correcting grammar from them?
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LinusW
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 27 2007
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 10665
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Posted: February 14 2008 at 19:03 |
I'd say they need a big hug, judging from many of the replies here  .
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EnglishAssassin
Forum Groupie
Joined: December 24 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 83
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Posted: February 14 2008 at 19:06 |
rileydog22 wrote:
EnglishAssassin wrote:
Fewer fanboys.
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Peter? Is that you?
What did we tell you about hacking people's accounts and correcting grammar from them?
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I'm no Peter. It's just one of those little things that annoys me to an unreasonable extent.
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Evans
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 15 2006
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 3004
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Posted: February 14 2008 at 19:11 |
p0mt3 wrote:
Lonely Progger wrote:
I do consider Labrie a but as a musical deadweight ^^, How can you respect a singer who doesn't contribute to the music and doesn't even write the lyrics he sings !
But he must feel crushed by Petrucci's and Rudess' musical knowledge most of the time and he isn't really a progger to, Mike Portnoy said he listened to maroon 5 and stuff like that. So it must be quite hard for him to find his place in the machine that is Dream theater.
Top rate albums to you, but not to the majority so would you have nothing to say ?
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Based on what you have typed here, it seems to me that you a) Dislike LaBrie because he doesn't play an instrument (by the way, he DOES write lyrics, just not every album), and you b) Think that Mike Portnoy shouldn't be respected since he likes to diversify his musical taste and listen to something other than prog every now and then. Am I correct so far?
Well, based on that, you and I seem to be very different people, so I don't know if you will share my opinion on this, but hey, I'll give it a whirl anyway . . .
Personally, I think Octavarium was one of DT's best albums in years, because they went back to what made them truly great to begin with: they lessened the extended solos, gave the keyboards a more tastefull and atmohperic role, and had a diverse collection of song styles grouped together. Systematic Chaos was a letdown for me, because for the first time (not even on ToT did I feel this way) it seems that DT wants to be nothing but a straightforward metal band. It isn't because of the label change, because Opeth is still the same band post-Roadrunner signing, so it was obviousely the band's choice to go that one-dimentional. Petrucci once said in an interview that he wouldn't respect himself if he wrote completely fictional lyrics. Well, every single one of his songs on SC were ridiculous, typicall metal lyrics telling stories of zombies, vampires and other such nonsense. Way to raise the bar there, John.
So in my opinion, what Dream Theater ''needs'' is a wake-up call. But let's hope that this madness was only for this one record. |
Maybe he thought, when he said that thing about the fictional lyrics, that he was at a place in his life where he thought it appropriate to write about reality instead of vampires, and now there has been a few years and he's expressed what he wanted to express so he tries something new istead? Honestly, you people want bands to progress instead of doing what works, but still you blame them when they go another direction that the exact one you wanted them to go. Still, zombie lyrics are pretty silly. I'll give you that one.
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'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..'
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: February 14 2008 at 19:21 |
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Honestly...
1. Humor (and not coming from honky-tonk carnival keyboard crap)
2. More diverse drumming.
3. Let go of the 12-step recovery thing, Portnoy. Yeesh.
4. Get off RoadRunner records. Gah.
5. Have the covers of your albums be not like Systematic Chaos.
6. Accentuate your songs with metal, because "The Dark Eternal Night" was totally not where you should be going.
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: February 14 2008 at 19:27 |
Evans wrote:
p0mt3 wrote:
Lonely Progger wrote:
I do consider Labrie a but as a musical deadweight ^^, How can you respect a singer who doesn't contribute to the music and doesn't even write the lyrics he sings !
But he must feel crushed by Petrucci's and Rudess' musical knowledge most of the time and he isn't really a progger to, Mike Portnoy said he listened to maroon 5 and stuff like that. So it must be quite hard for him to find his place in the machine that is Dream theater.
Top rate albums to you, but not to the majority so would you have nothing to say ?
|
Based on what you have typed here, it seems to me that you a) Dislike LaBrie because he doesn't play an instrument (by the way, he DOES write lyrics, just not every album), and you b) Think that Mike Portnoy shouldn't be respected since he likes to diversify his musical taste and listen to something other than prog every now and then. Am I correct so far?
Well, based on that, you and I seem to be very different people, so I don't know if you will share my opinion on this, but hey, I'll give it a whirl anyway . . .
Personally, I think Octavarium was one of DT's best albums in years, because they went back to what made them truly great to begin with: they lessened the extended solos, gave the keyboards a more tastefull and atmohperic role, and had a diverse collection of song styles grouped together. Systematic Chaos was a letdown for me, because for the first time (not even on ToT did I feel this way) it seems that DT wants to be nothing but a straightforward metal band. It isn't because of the label change, because Opeth is still the same band post-Roadrunner signing, so it was obviousely the band's choice to go that one-dimentional. Petrucci once said in an interview that he wouldn't respect himself if he wrote completely fictional lyrics. Well, every single one of his songs on SC were ridiculous, typicall metal lyrics telling stories of zombies, vampires and other such nonsense. Way to raise the bar there, John.
So in my opinion, what Dream Theater ''needs'' is a wake-up call. But let's hope that this madness was only for this one record. |
Maybe he thought, when he said that thing about the fictional lyrics, that he was at a place in his life where he thought it appropriate to write about reality instead of vampires, and now there has been a few years and he's expressed what he wanted to express so he tries something new istead?
Honestly, you people want bands to progress instead of doing what works, but still you blame them when they go another direction that the exact one you wanted them to go.
Still, zombie lyrics are pretty silly. I'll give you that one.
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Well, of course you are right about the progressing thing, but honestly, I don't mind at all when a band changes , and DT have done it time and again, and I have never had a problem with it, but I have at times greatly disliked it. It doesn't mean I don't want them to change, it just means that I don't always enjoy the result of them doing so. I'm just being honest, and not some fanboy who thinks everything they do is God.
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: February 14 2008 at 21:30 |
Now now, I don't hate DT. I have all their CDs except the last one. But it is so much fun to pick on fanboys.
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: February 14 2008 at 21:31 |
stonebeard wrote:
Honestly...
1. Humor (and not coming from honky-tonk carnival keyboard crap)
2. More diverse drumming.
3. Let go of the 12-step recovery thing, Portnoy. Yeesh.
4. Get off RoadRunner records. Gah.
5. Have the covers of your albums be not like Systematic Chaos.
6. Accentuate your songs with metal, because "The Dark Eternal Night" was totally not where you should be going.
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More songs with reference to drinking beers.
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heyitsthatguy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 17 2006
Location: Washington Hgts
Status: Offline
Points: 10094
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Posted: February 14 2008 at 21:32 |
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these guys need a good arse kicking
oh wait I like every single one of their albums to some degree or another
nvm
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oroboross
Forum Newbie
Joined: October 28 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 24
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Posted: February 15 2008 at 16:24 |
HughesJB4 wrote:
oroboross wrote:
Dream Theater has one thing going for them above every other progrock/metal band. They have done it all without the support of radio. During the '70s radio was the greatest supporter of progrock. That has not been the case since the '80s to present. DT has continued to write original complex music since the late '80s that appeals to very large amount of people around the world for one reason, they write music for their fans and not for the reasons almost every other band writes, for the bucks and charts. Even Fates Warning who have been around longer than any other progmetal band has not had the success that DT has. Why? Talent. As great as Fates is DT has gone beyond where Fates went and took progmetal to the place progrock was during it's heyday. DT needs nothing but to keep writing for their fans and ignore everybody who thinks they know what DT needs. |
I agree with most of those points, but where do we draw the fine line as to what is 'writing for the fans' and 'writing for themselves'? Dream Theater has fans that have a more narrow view of what they should sound like, while some like me, want to see them expand as much as possible. Albums like ToT, seriously divided many fans, because I think that album was written for themselves first and foremost. To many people it didn't fall within the expected DT sound, not 'classic DT' enough. But for the rest of us, it still had many recognisable elements of their sound, but we loved ToT, because it showed us a side of DT we had not heard before, and IMO still continued to expand upon what they had done prior to ToT.
I tend not to expect too much of a particular sound from DT, because I know they are capable of doing something different each time. I'm no fan boy, I've never been in love with everything they did (as I mentioned in an earlier post, Octavarium was not exactly a favourite of mine), but I will always believe they will have some creative steam left to release. |
I don't have expectations when it comes to music, that way I don't get dissapointed if they don't live up to my expectations. Writing for themselves? Any band that writes for themselves cannot possibly have the success that DT has had for over 20 years. "Classic DT"? If a band doesn't progress it stagnates and DT is nothing like Boston. I have about 30 progmetal bands I like and none of them are as talented or productive as DT.
Edited by oroboross - February 15 2008 at 16:25
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crimson87
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 03 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 1818
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Posted: February 16 2008 at 13:18 |
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they need to retire , plus some blood in their veins
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E-Dub
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 24 2006
Location: Elkhorn, WI
Status: Offline
Points: 7910
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Posted: February 16 2008 at 13:30 |
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I think they need to have people just leave 'em alone and let them keep doing what they're doing. Prog isn't exactly in the greatest shape right now, so if these guys can introduce new fans to prog, I say keep spreadin' the gospel, fellas.
They're probably doing more than all of us combined, so leave them alone.
E
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ProgBagel
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2819
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Posted: February 16 2008 at 13:48 |
EnglishAssassin wrote:
I'm not Peter. It's just one of those little things that annoys me to an unreasonable extent. |
Same here
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Edited by ProgBagel - February 16 2008 at 13:49
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burritounit
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 18 2007
Location: Puerto Rico
Status: Offline
Points: 2551
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Posted: February 16 2008 at 18:03 |
crimson87 wrote:
they need to retire , plus some blood in their veins |
Why should they retire?and the blood??
Edited by burritounit - February 16 2008 at 18:03
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210
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Posted: February 19 2008 at 04:01 |
stonebeard wrote:
Honestly...
1. Humor (and not coming from honky-tonk carnival keyboard crap)
2. More diverse drumming.
3. Let go of the 12-step recovery thing, Portnoy. Yeesh.
4. Get off RoadRunner records. Gah.
5. Have the covers of your albums be not like Systematic Chaos.
6. Accentuate your songs with metal, because "The Dark Eternal Night" was totally not where you should be going.
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I personally really like the 12 step AA songs, and Portnoy only has 3 steps to go anyway.
For the drumming to be more diverse also depends somewhat on what Myung, and a lesser extent, Petrucci are doing. I personally don't believe it's particularly musically to just 'spruce up' the drum work for the sake of doing it, it has to have musical purpose IMO.
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What does Dream Theater need ?
