Member Privileges

EDIT: the text below is my full original post, but since then the subject has changed. Please skim ahead if you would like to comment on the "pop-up" idea...



Now I don't usually visit the Improvements forum, but allow me to suggest an idea under the assumption that it has not specifically come up before...

I have been a member for nearly a year now, and browsed the site for probably 6 months before I even joined, and I remember some of the confusion with the forums as far as getting used to what are old/used topics, using the search function for new threads, and generally learning how the interaction between members of all ranks goes.

The last month or so here, things seem to be getting a little boring with topics that are coming up, and I've noticed that quite a few of them seem to be popping up from brand new members to the site... and ending up on the front page.

I embrace new members to the forum and people who would like to share their interests in progressive rock (and other areas), but I feel that the privileges for the bottom three "ranks" of members may need to be altered.

As only Collaborators and Prog Reviewers (I believe) have the exclusive privilege of editing their reviews, the other ranks should have some significance beyond their current state. For example, I don't think that Newbies, and possibly Groupies as well, should have the privilege to start threads/polls. Even when someone has browsed the site before joining (as I did), they still aren't acclimatized to our little community right away. In order to make being a senior member somewhat significant, as well as to reduce the amount of repetition on the forums, the site amins/owners could only allow Newbies and groupies to post comments. If this idea sounds too extreme, it would even be beneficial to only restrict "young-un" posting of threads in the prog music lounge.

Additionally, as ranks stand now, one must only make 100 posts (or so) to become a senior member, so those restricted members really wouldn't be restricted for that long.

Anyways, comments are of course appreciated, and I'd be glad to clarify my view if anyone needs it...
I'll check back a little later to see what you all think
 - thanks!


Edited by ClassicRocker - March 17 2008 at 09:20

In short: the problems you mention do exist, but I doubt if your suggested solutions will address them in the way you intend to.

Long version:
We ask members to introduce themselves in the Newbies section, we ask them to start new threads when suggesting a band in Unsigned or Suggest New Bands, we ask them to start new threads when reporting Errors & Omissions, or when reporting bugs. All of that will become inavailable to new members if we follow your line of reasoning. Just imagine the reaction of a band joining the forum to suggest their works in Unsigned Bands, Suggest New Bands or Music/Musicians Exchange...

On the other hand, I can see some advantages in the area of polls...

As for the ranks and the number of posts: how important are these titles and numbers? I know of members that have joined as early as 2005, and posted less than 100 posts. In some cases, each one of these posts has been more valuable than some the one liners posted by others (including those of my own - so no finger pointing here ).

So - yes, you have spotted an issue, but no, I don't think you've found the solution yet. Keep 'em coming though

Erk. :(

I like this idea in as much as it protects the home page. It's also true that a lot of new posters dive in without lurking and rehash the same old topics, and it's equally true that that type of poster burns out, inevitably so. but... don't you think that this is the sort of idea that would discourage people signing up in the first place? It'd be a dire first impression and we'd have to cope with those misinformed "what about freedom of speech?!?!" screeds all the more.

I read the forum a lot, and I've noticed that  people sign up to make a single post looking for recommendations or help with identifying a song. Maybe they'd feel patronised if we tried to reel them in through having to inflate their post count, first. It's nice that we can actually provide some sort of service when people post queries, and no-one'd be all that encouraged if they had to write them into one mega-huge compendium of newbie posts...

Post count's my least favourite feature among internet forum ideas, and although we're all fairly civil here, in other moods it's one more way of cowing new members, or making them artificially bump very old threads. I'd rather be the artificial way of bumping very old threads. ;P

As much as it erks the long-term forumites, I'd prefer a brief flurry of forum activity over a ghost town where everyone takes turn to type "Mr. Bungle rocks!" in the VR. (not that they don't =P)

basically I'd like to see some clarification of your idea. How would you mollify the new, restricted posters? If the answer is "dangle the hundred post carrot" then remember that there are other prog forums and we'd be driving away potential members here.

Thanks for your comments guys. I understand how I may sound a little exclusive/elitist with my idea, but in all truth I really want to see the site grow with an expanding user base just as much as many of my peers here.

I guess my main motivation in this topic is to stop seeing such repetition in the main prog lounge and the prog polls - so really just the top two forums under the "progressive music lounges" forum label.
If somehow the site can just restrict the creation of topics and polls in those two categories - the top two that are under the "Forum New Topics" on the PA home page - I believe that it would address your apprehensions, Angelo, as far as the ability for new members to still be able to participate in the unsigned bands, music suggestions, errors and omissions, etc. forums through creation of threads.
Iaplace, I'm not one to tout post counts, but I think that a significant amount of "forum experience" does come from a significant number of posts. I totally agree with whomever stated that infrequent posters have much to offer to the site, so maybe the proposed "senior member" requirement would be too harsh...
I think even if the prerequisite was Groupie it would still make a difference in the type of threads that pop up.

For anyone who is interested, another incentive of the "restriction" is that the site will have many less threads that are placed in the wrong spot (I believe). Countless times, I have seen new threads in those "top two" forums - the prog lounge and prog polls - all beginning with a statement along the lines of "I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but..." We get topics about band appreciation, private collection sales (like E-bay auctions), and favorites/lists, among many other types of incorrectly-placed topics. It's not a HUGE issue, I suppose, but it takes time away from admins needing to move the topics and frustrates members looking for a stimulating discussion.

I will openly admit myself that one of the first posts I made on the site was in the "Prog Music Lounge" forum, where I started a thread that linked to the main page complaining about why less-than-4-star members can't edit their reviews. And I can guarantee it would have been a lot easier (and less embarrassing) process if I was blocked from posting on that forum and was instead forced to find the appropriate forum for that type of thing.

So do I have any converts yet?

@ClassicRocker: Nice update - you're thinking this through thorougly. Making it less restrictive in that way makes it loose some disadvantages indeed

@Evans: I see your point, but likely in those cases the unorginal name and absence of an avatar may tell you enough....

I've thought about this as well, CR, and as much as it would be great to cut down on repeat threads and such, I don't feel we should limit newbies out of hand. I've seen many a first post/thread full of intelligent points that can lead to a nice discourse. Having said that, if I see another "Is x the new y?" or "DT vs Yes/Rush/Chuck Norris/Satan", I will scream. 

Ghost Rider - I have also been online slightly less lately, and have noticed that trend of fewer posts in some of the more original threads. Of course we should be democratic and whatnot to the newbies, but I wonder if you have read my update regarding the restriction on just the top two forums on the PA home page (?)
I'm also going to go out on a limb here and say that only once in a while we get a highly respectable and thoughtful, mature new member, who could possibly begin a new topic in those two forums that's simply amazing. And who also posts infrequently.
But the majority of the time, we don't get those types of new members - instead we end up with mostly young, "less-mature" adolescents (I being included in that category) under 20 years old. About half of the most frequent site visitors are made up of that group alone, according to the statistics here http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=703&PN=1&RN=3
I don't know if that makes a difference to you, GR, but I find it an interesting statistic that can often be reflected in some of what I see on the site. Trolls are most frequently in that age group as well. (Disclaimer: please don't get angered or offended by any generalizations I may (or may not) have made in the last few statements - I'm just trying to prove a point)

and

Angelo - at this point I think that's the best I got for you

Well, thanks again for the responses, and I think I may have run out of ways to rephrase this particular suggestion.

Just an additional question for personal reference (that may be relevant to what I'm discussing here):
Exactly how many posts are required for a member to rank-up from a newbie to a groupie? Can I get an  exact number from one of you higher-ups that knows?



Edited by ClassicRocker - February 14 2008 at 18:12

Well it seems that you may have found a logical fallacy of mine, Jake (if I may call you that). You are right,  the age thing is pretty unfair for me to have said... which is why I put that little *disclaimer* in there. As I said, I'm 16 myself and fall into that group, but I am merely using some of those statements to help out my position. That is the goal of an argument, isn't it? 

I am completely aware that we contribute greatly to the site, and that there are many in our group. And I don't want to turn this thread into a lengthy discussion on ages of members and how relevant their respective posts and topics are, but I would say that you could attribute the large number of reviewers/collabs as fairly  proportional to our age group's overall size, compared to the others. "I'm just saying..." (Once again, no offense meant to anyone from what I have said... I know that sometimes I am not the most tactful person in my opinions).

My main argument here is NOT that post count equates with maturity (and I oppose that sentiment). Instead, I'm simply stating that post count, to a significant degree, does equate with familiarity with the forum, which is ultimately what causes the major aches and pains in the forums. Lingering trolls have been a fairly rare occurrence in my experience on the site.

ClassicRocker wrote: Well it seems that you may have found a logical fallacy of mine, Jake (if I may call you that). You are right,  the age thing is pretty unfair for me to have said... which is why I put that little *disclaimer* in there. As I said, I'm 16 myself and fall into that group, but I am merely using some of those statements to help out my position. That is the goal of an argument, isn't it?  I am completely aware that we contribute greatly to the site, and that there are many in our group. And I don't want to turn this thread into a lengthy discussion on ages of members and how relevant their respective posts and topics are, but I would say that you could attribute the large number of reviewers/collabs as fairly  proportional to our age group's overall size, compared to the others. "I'm just saying..." (Once again, no offense meant to anyone from what I have said... I know that sometimes I am not the most tactful person in my opinions). My main argument here is NOT that post count equates with maturity (and I oppose that sentiment). Instead, I'm simply stating that post count, to a significant degree, does equate with familiarity with the forum, which is ultimately what causes the major aches and pains in the forums. Lingering trolls have been a fairly rare occurrence in my experience on the site.

It's all good. I knew that's not how you meant it, but man does it get old when I hear someone smugly dismiss things I say based on my age (this being an election year, I'm already hungry for blood). At the end of the day, you just gotta stress the use of the search function. I think that when anyone joins ANY forum, they should show newbies how to use the search function of that site in order to avoid unnecessary clogging (not to mention flaming). I don't know how many would read it, but I hear all too often "Well I didn't know how to search." Whether or not they're telling the truth, a little tour would erase that excuse.

I don't like the idea. Reminds me of Gamefaqs. It has an interesting and wide spectrum of topics, but you can only post like 15 posts a day, and only start a few topics a day until you're a level blah blah blah and all. Very inconvenient for someone who is not a troll. I'd hate to see PA go in this direction.