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Real Paradox View Drop Down
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Points: 174 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2008 at 13:02
Originally posted by Okocha Okocha wrote:

NO

No ,what are you refering?
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Points: 2601 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2008 at 13:22

I'm with Salmacis here - used to play them a ton but not so much anymore.  I think Heep are responsible in large part for me finding prog in the first place, they were a good bridge between the heavy rock I was mostly into before...especially Deep Purple, Styx, and The Who.

IMO Demons and Wizards (and most of the subsequent albums) suffers from terrible lyrics and the musicianship isn't exactly great aside from Thain of course...for me, Look at Yourself is the best one because the great songs overshadow their shortcomings.  Salisbury is pretty damn good too, they had to have some serious canoles to record that title track. From the later ones, Firefly does it for me, there's some excellent late-70s hard rock on that one.
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Points: 7851 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2008 at 13:43
Originally posted by jimmy_row jimmy_row wrote:

IMO Demons and Wizards (and most of the subsequent albums) suffers from terrible lyrics and the musicianship isn't exactly great aside from Thain of course...
 
Terrible lyrics? I don't think so. Yes, they probably are not masterpieces of poetry, but UH lyrics are always honest and personal. IMO Heep is one of those bands, who created, musically and lyrically, their own world. Wonderworld, I can say using words of our heroes. I think "Sailing the sea of light" is the best definition of band's music.
 
About musicianship. 
Mick Box, without being the most virtuostic guitarist, has his own style.
Ken Hensley also told that he could never play as virtuostic as Jon Lord or Keith Emerson do, but as organ player he has his own style.
Lee Kerslake and Trevor Bolder have good musical reputation - as a good drummer and "clever bassist" (words of Paul Newton).
IMO that's enough for a good band, especially taking into account their instantly recognizable, unique sound.


Edited by NotAProghead - January 23 2008 at 13:44
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Points: 174 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2008 at 13:54
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

Originally posted by jimmy_row jimmy_row wrote:

IMO Demons and Wizards (and most of the subsequent albums) suffers from terrible lyrics and the musicianship isn't exactly great aside from Thain of course...
 
Terrible lyrics? I don't think so. Yes, they probably are not masterpieces of poetry, but UH lyrics are always honest and personal. IMO Heep is one of those bands, who created, musically and lyrically, their own world. Wonderworld, I can say using words of our heroes. I think "Sailing the sea of light" is the best definition of band's music.
 
About musicianship. 
Mick Box, without being the most virtuostic guitarist, has his own style.
Ken Hensley also told that he could never play as virtuostic as Jon Lord or Keith Emerson do, but as organ player he has his own style.
Lee Kerslake and Trevor Bolder have good musical reputation - as a good drummer and "clever bassist" (words of Paul Newton).
IMO that's enough for a good band, especially taking into account their instantly recognizable, unique sound.

Anyways , their best told story was defenatly from "The Magicians Birthday"...I guess of course.Tongue
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Points: 7851 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2008 at 14:18
Originally posted by Real Paradox Real Paradox wrote:

Anyways , their best told story was defenatly from "The Magicians Birthday"...I guess of course.Tongue
Agree, though "Pilgrim" is very close.
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Points: 2601 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2008 at 14:56
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

Originally posted by jimmy_row jimmy_row wrote:

IMO Demons and Wizards (and most of the subsequent albums) suffers from terrible lyrics and the musicianship isn't exactly great aside from Thain of course...
 
Terrible lyrics? I don't think so. Yes, they probably are not masterpieces of poetry, but UH lyrics are always honest and personal. IMO Heep is one of those bands, who created, musically and lyrically, their own world. Wonderworld, I can say using words of our heroes. I think "Sailing the sea of light" is the best definition of band's music.
 
About musicianship. 
Mick Box, without being the most virtuostic guitarist, has his own style.
Ken Hensley also told that he could never play as virtuostic as Jon Lord or Keith Emerson do, but as organ player he has his own style.
Lee Kerslake and Trevor Bolder have good musical reputation - as a good drummer and "clever bassist" (words of Paul Newton).
IMO that's enough for a good band, especially taking into account their instantly recognizable, unique sound.
I didn't mean to sound rude, sorry.  I like Uriah Heep a lot, but I would be lying if I said they were good musicians...of course they had "their own sound", as any fan will say of their favorite bands, but they weren't far enough from Deep Purple and Zeppelin for your average listener to know the difference, and they couldn't play nearly as well as those two bands.  As for the lyrics, it's just my opinion but:  "I will light a fire, kindled with desire/I will cast a spell, be sure I cast it well/I'll fill you with fear, so you know I'm here" doesn't strike me as particularly good (Poet's Justice and Circle of Hands are much the same)...charming? Perhaps.  Tongue in cheek? Jethro Tull and Spinal Tap did it far better. anyway, sorry if I offended you, it's only an opinion...
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Points: 6898 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2008 at 16:04
Even Peter gabriel said in an interview around the time that his Security album came out that rock music lyrics are for the most part lame. I agree with him. I don`t care who it is it`s all really bad poetry set to music. Some rock lyrics are  mildly amusing though. As for musicianship, I wouldn`t draw comparisons to Deep Purple or Zeppelin. No virtuosos there either that`s for sure.  
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Points: 46833 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2008 at 17:03
Originally posted by jimmy_row jimmy_row wrote:

Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

Originally posted by jimmy_row jimmy_row wrote:

IMO Demons and Wizards (and most of the subsequent albums) suffers from terrible lyrics and the musicianship isn't exactly great aside from Thain of course...
 
Terrible lyrics? I don't think so. Yes, they probably are not masterpieces of poetry, but UH lyrics are always honest and personal. IMO Heep is one of those bands, who created, musically and lyrically, their own world. Wonderworld, I can say using words of our heroes. I think "Sailing the sea of light" is the best definition of band's music.
 
About musicianship. 
Mick Box, without being the most virtuostic guitarist, has his own style.
Ken Hensley also told that he could never play as virtuostic as Jon Lord or Keith Emerson do, but as organ player he has his own style.
Lee Kerslake and Trevor Bolder have good musical reputation - as a good drummer and "clever bassist" (words of Paul Newton).
IMO that's enough for a good band, especially taking into account their instantly recognizable, unique sound.
I didn't mean to sound rude, sorry.  I like Uriah Heep a lot, but I would be lying if I said they were good musicians...of course they had "their own sound", as any fan will say of their favorite bands, but they weren't far enough from Deep Purple and Zeppelin for your average listener to know the difference, and they couldn't play nearly as well as those two bands.  As for the lyrics, it's just my opinion but:  "I will light a fire, kindled with desire/I will cast a spell, be sure I cast it well/I'll fill you with fear, so you know I'm here" doesn't strike me as particularly good (Poet's Justice and Circle of Hands are much the same)...charming? Perhaps.  Tongue in cheek? Jethro Tull and Spinal Tap did it far better. anyway, sorry if I offended you, it's only an opinion...


and a valid one it is... and those lyrics are priceless LOL Again... for good lyrics.. read a book ..a poem.. or buy a Blue Oyster Cult album LOLClap
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Points: 7851 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2008 at 17:59
^ It's possible to take some bad lines from any band's (including LZ and DP) song and then conclude: their lirics are "nothing to write home about".
 
About reading books, poems etc - it was alredy discussed in other topics. I don't think anyone changed his/her mind after discussion. 


Edited by NotAProghead - January 23 2008 at 18:41
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Points: 2601 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2008 at 22:17
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:



and a valid one it is... and those lyrics are priceless LOL Again... for good lyrics.. read a book ..a poem.. or buy a Blue Oyster Cult album LOLClap
ClapClap you've got a good head on your shoulders WinkLOL
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Points: 2601 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2008 at 22:19
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

^ It's possible to take some bad lines from any band's (including LZ and DP) song and then conclude: their lirics are "nothing to write home about".
 
About reading books, poems etc - it was alredy discussed in other topics. I don't think anyone changed his/her mind after discussion. 
I agree here, I was singling out Demons and Wizards because I have a difficult time getting past the lyrics.  Normally I don't expect rock lyrics to be good...just so long as they aren't cringeworthy.  Aside from D&W and TMB, I don't have any problem with their lyrics.
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Points: 402 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2008 at 23:56
When it comes to lyrics, I find Uriah heep one of the most exciting Hard Rock bands. I think they all will be Shakespeare's masterpieces when compared to the lyrics of Smoke On The Water or Whole Lotta Love. Of oure this fire/desire thing make me smile sometimed, but I can live with it... Its' definitely better than rearranging my liver LOL.
 
In no DP or LZ song can be found a thing like: dreams are the posession of a simple man/ reality is a fantasy of youth/ living is the problem that is common to us all/ and love's the only common road to truth. And Pilgrim's lyrics is masterpiece I think.
 
And about musicianship, I think their virtuosity is very high and it's enough for what they play. So let's judge them for what they play than for for what they don't. 
 
Maybe I don't listen much to Uriah Heep these days but this does not and never will mean that they got any worse in my view. Their songs permanently keep turning in my head. Same for King Crimson also, I don't listen much to them now either, but when someone asks me to name my fave band I name these to (and maybe Camel too) immediately. 
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Points: 3449 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2008 at 21:21
Their biggest obstacle was that they were competing with Deep Purple, who at the time were at their peak.  I think this is what kept them from getting more commercial success and critical recognition.  I still have Look at Yourself and Demons and Wizards, both good albums, but not on the level of, say, Machine Head. 
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Points: 46833 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2008 at 21:49
Originally posted by jimmy_row jimmy_row wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:



and a valid one it is... and those lyrics are priceless LOL Again... for good lyrics.. read a book ..a poem.. or buy a Blue Oyster Cult album LOLClap
ClapClap you've got a good head on your shoulders WinkLOL


thank god for the mind

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Points: 46833 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2008 at 22:07
Originally posted by jammun jammun wrote:

Their biggest obstacle was that they were competing with Deep Purple, who at the time were at their peak.  I think this is what kept them from getting more commercial success and critical recognition.  I still have Look at Yourself and Demons and Wizards, both good albums, but not on the level of, say, Machine Head. 


agreed... some will like.. or simply prefer Uriah Heep more and there is noting wrong with that.  but if one wants to know why UR is underrated or overlooked or what have you.  That is why.  They were very similar...there are differnces.. but not profound.. or even particuarly noticeable ones.   Deep Purple took that whole branch of music to another level as UR didn't.. as evidenced by the simple fact they resonated with the public which is simply the surest sign... empirical proof if you will. Deep Purple are going to get the lion share of fame or glory.  Doesn't make Uriah Heep a less than great group... for they did some great albums...  but they weren't on par with what DP was doing.  Can't really say they were somehow more challenging as to limit commercial appeal.  BOC were much in the same vein... and probably topped both in the 'challenging' category.. especially through the 'black and white' period of the 70's and had equal equivalent commercial success to UR.. at least in here in the states.


Edited by micky - January 24 2008 at 22:22
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2008 at 23:46
Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

 
About musicianship. 
Mick Box, without being the most virtuostic guitarist, has his own style.
Ken Hensley also told that he could never play as virtuostic as Jon Lord or Keith Emerson do, but as organ player he has his own style.
Lee Kerslake and Trevor Bolder have good musical reputation - as a good drummer and "clever bassist" (words of Paul Newton).
IMO that's enough for a good band, especially taking into account their instantly recognizable, unique sound.
 
And you also forget two important names:
 
Gary Thain: IMO one of the best bass players in Rock histoory (Prog and non Prog),. ghe did in a few years what some guys can't do in a whole lifetime, imagine that John Wetton (being outstanding) wasn't able to replace Gary.
 
David Byron: He had one of the widest ranges in Rock, he could be sofy and gentle when required and frantic if he wanted, he went to extreme ranges in a second.
 
IMO Deep Purple was a more solid band in long term but no DP album  reched the level of the Uriah Heep trilogy (Look at Yourself, Demons & Wizards and The Magician's Birthaday), while DP was more oriented towards Hard Rock, this three albums have a very solid atmospheric sound and much more Prog oriented, something hardly achieved by a Heavy band and if that is not enough, their chorus were incredibly superior to Deep Purple's.
 
Just listen the vocal work in "Tears in my Eyes", while David Byron was reaching the highest ranges, the chorus blended with the wah - wah guitar of Mick Box and the organ of Hensley, simply perfect.
 
Like both bands. but IMO Uriah Heep in their peak had no contest.
 
Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 24 2008 at 23:50
            
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Points: 7851 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2008 at 02:56
Ivan, I didn't forget David and Gary, I thought their talents are obvious.
 
 
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

their chorus were incredibly superior to Deep Purple's.
I don't rememember much chorus of DP, at least in times of Mk II.
 
 
Slighly off-topic, look at great Uriah Heep (and not only UH) photos by Dima Brickman: http://www.pbase.com/dimabr/uriah_heep2007
 
  
IMO extremely gifted photograph.


Edited by NotAProghead - January 25 2008 at 03:00
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Points: 2601 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2008 at 12:08
^thanks for posting those, very gifted photography indeed.  You can tell that they really love what they're doing and still manage to bring a ton of energy...very nice to see with all the empty "reunions" these days.
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Points: 7851 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2008 at 12:26
^ Thanks for good words. Exceptional photographer, really.
If you click "all galleries" on Dima Brickman's, you'll see lots of wonderful photos. Not only from concerts, amazing.
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Points: 174 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2008 at 17:44
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by NotAProghead NotAProghead wrote:

 
About musicianship. 
Mick Box, without being the most virtuostic guitarist, has his own style.
Ken Hensley also told that he could never play as virtuostic as Jon Lord or Keith Emerson do, but as organ player he has his own style.
Lee Kerslake and Trevor Bolder have good musical reputation - as a good drummer and "clever bassist" (words of Paul Newton).
IMO that's enough for a good band, especially taking into account their instantly recognizable, unique sound.
 
And you also forget two important names:
 
Gary Thain: IMO one of the best bass players in Rock histoory (Prog and non Prog),. ghe did in a few years what some guys can't do in a whole lifetime, imagine that John Wetton (being outstanding) wasn't able to replace Gary.
 
David Byron: He had one of the widest ranges in Rock, he could be sofy and gentle when required and frantic if he wanted, he went to extreme ranges in a second.
 
IMO Deep Purple was a more solid band in long term but no DP album  reched the level of the Uriah Heep trilogy (Look at Yourself, Demons & Wizards and The Magician's Birthaday), while DP was more oriented towards Hard Rock, this three albums have a very solid atmospheric sound and much more Prog oriented, something hardly achieved by a Heavy band and if that is not enough, their chorus were incredibly superior to Deep Purple's.
 
Just listen the vocal work in "Tears in my Eyes", while David Byron was reaching the highest ranges, the chorus blended with the wah - wah guitar of Mick Box and the organ of Hensley, simply perfect.
 
Like both bands. but IMO Uriah Heep in their peak had no contest.
 
Iv�n
David Byron was one of the best realy...His voice so in tune with the music of the 70's, as for DP's Ian Gillian ,he has a good range too and his voice was so clear in concerts, but the true showman is Byron, Uriah Heep was a "different" band, not you're everyday heavy prog rock band...that's what makes them special!
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