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46and2 
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 Topic: Grateful Dead?
Posted: December 31 2007 at 00:19 |
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I think i remember seeing a thread a while ago about how the dead wasn't 'progressive', but after hearing a pretty decent trajectory of their music (about a 3 hour show from the years 68 - 91), some of their stuff is just full blown psychedelic jamming. I know they had their ups and downs, given that they toured for almost 30 years straight, but i just wanted to hear people's thoughts on this band.
also, if some of the dead's jams are to shaky for you, their is a 'cover' band called dark star orchestra who cover entire concerts setlist and change their equipment depending on the era they are covering. They honestly take the deads music to an entire new technical level.
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micky
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Posted: December 31 2007 at 00:31 |
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as much as I love Jefferson Airplane.. they should have never been included here. As I much as I hate saying this.. because good music does not equal prog... since JA is here... no reason in the world other than 'sterotypes' and labels.. why the Dead shouldn't.
in fact neither should be here... but can't have one.. and not the other. In fact.. it can be argued that the Dead were in fact more progressive.. than JA.
wrong place for this thread by the way....
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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46and2
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Posted: December 31 2007 at 01:08 |
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sorry, wher should i have put this topic?
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Erpland316
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Posted: December 31 2007 at 01:55 |
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I know they probably dont get a lot of recognition around these parts but myself being a once antideadhead was completely turned around by the awesome sound of their music. Their sheer stability to remain a band for that long and never changing their sound due to the times is quite rare. For those are interested try: Blues for Allah, Europle 1972, Anthem of the Sun. Jerry Garcia (as well as the whole band) is/are quite amazing musicians.
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"Science is all metaphor"-Timothy Leary
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ghost_of_morphy
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Posted: December 31 2007 at 02:41 |
The dead are great at psychedelic jamming. I wouldn't call that prog, though.
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BaldJean
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Posted: December 31 2007 at 07:47 |
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well, space/psychedelic is one sub-genre of prog
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 A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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A B Negative
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Posted: December 31 2007 at 08:42 |
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I borrowed a dozen Dead LPs from a friend, I'd never heard them and she was a big fan. The only thing I liked was the artwork on the sleeves.
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"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."
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Easy Money
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Posted: December 31 2007 at 09:01 |
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Let me throw my petty two cents into this, if I was to rate the early psych/jam bands and their influence on the development of progressive rock I would rate them in this order;
1 Hendrix
2 Cream
3 Dead
4 Soft Machine
5 Santana
6 Allmans
I don't think the Airplane contributed as much as any of those artists.
Keep in mind by "influence" I am not referring to level of skill, but how many people they reached and changed with their music.
Edited by Easy Money - January 04 2008 at 10:18
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Nightfly
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Posted: December 31 2007 at 10:20 |
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The Grateful Dead can be a very frustrating band. Sometimes they're brilliant with their extended Psychedelic jamming (admitedly not always) or their Country excursions and then they'll go and play the most dreary Rock n' Roll cover version you ever could hear like Johnny B Goode.
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Easy Livin
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Posted: December 31 2007 at 10:28 |
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Thread moved to correct section
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nightlamp
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Posted: January 02 2008 at 15:07 |
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The Dead were pretty dope, although their live harmony vocals were incredibly inconsistent, at times atrocious-- I guess it all depended on the amount of drugs in the collective bloodstream or something.
I like their live recordings from '73-'75 the most; I think this is mostly because of Mickey Hart's absence. The Rhythm Devils have done some great stuff over the years, but Kreutzmann's looser, jazzier drumming in that particular time period is really fantastic...
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ghost_of_morphy
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Posted: January 03 2008 at 02:56 |
 BaldJean wrote:
well, space/psychedelic is one sub-genre of prog |
While that is certainly true, there is a difference between the jam band approach and something like Hawkwind. In addition, that was not the focus of the Grateful Dead in the way that you would it expect it to be for a band to be included as part of the genre. ELP strayed into ragtime now and then, yet we don't classify them as a ragtime band.
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Atavachron
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Posted: January 03 2008 at 03:23 |
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on a good night they were the best live rock act in the world
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jimmy_row
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Posted: January 03 2008 at 11:43 |
They must have had an influence on many psychadelic and krautrock bands early on, but I don't think it's worth it to add them here...even though IMO they make more sense than many of the bands in PR. Either way, one of the greatest live acts ever, as Atavachron said...maybe on the same plane as The Who, Allman Bros, Cream...
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micky
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Posted: January 03 2008 at 12:16 |
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I think David hit the nail on the head... on a good night...
much has been made that on two of the biggest stages of those years... they didn't live up to that reputation.. can't see them being held in the same regard as some you mentioned there Jimmy. Their fame is as much for the fans and scene around them as the goods they delivered..
Edited by micky - January 03 2008 at 12:17
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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salmacis
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Posted: January 03 2008 at 15:09 |
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^Micky has hit the nail on the head, IMHO. The band are as famous for that 'Deadhead' following as their music. I have 'Live Dead', 'Workingman's Dead', 'American Beauty' and 'Blues For Allah'. Although they have some moments I really like, this lot were not great with melodies, IMHO. Musically, they are a bit draggy at times, too, IMHO. 'Blues For Allah' is my favourite of those albums; arguably the closest they ever came to prog (some say 'Terrapin Station' too) but even then, not enough to be included here, IMHO.
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micky
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Posted: January 03 2008 at 18:12 |
salmacis wrote:
^Micky has hit the nail on the head, IMHO. The band are as famous for that 'Deadhead' following as their music. I have 'Live Dead', 'Workingman's Dead', 'American Beauty' and 'Blues For Allah'. Although they have some moments I really like, this lot were not great with melodies, IMHO. Musically, they are a bit draggy at times, too, IMHO. 'Blues For Allah' is my favourite of those albums; arguably the closest they ever came to prog (some say 'Terrapin Station' too) but even then, not enough to be included here, IMHO. |
and you James have hit the nail on the head... draggy is the best description for it... the Deadheads were silly twits escaping reality.. but it was the perfect music for dropping in... firing up a J and tuning out to the sounds of a band noodling away... and if reality escaped you for a bit... no problem... by the time you focus back in on the music..you have no worries mate.. you haven't missed a damn thing. 
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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jimmy_row
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Posted: January 03 2008 at 22:06 |
IMO, the best versions of Dark Star, The Eleven, Morning Dew, Truckin'...are neck-in-neck with The Allmans at Fillmore East and The Who at Leeds and Isle of Wight. I'll agree that they had a tendency to drag at times, but I'm talking about their peaks...there's some good stuff on the Dicks' Picks series (IMO the version of Dark Star on Live/Dead isn't the best one). I do get the feeling that you had to "be there" to get the full experience (no drug reference intended  ), moreso than many other bands that translated better to the live album format. The thing I enjoy most is that you can hear loooong improvs from the live recordings and then hear American Beauty where the songs couldn't be tighter and more to-the-point.
Edited by jimmy_row - January 03 2008 at 22:11
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jimmy_row
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Posted: January 03 2008 at 22:09 |
micky wrote:
salmacis wrote:
^Micky has hit the nail on the head, IMHO. The band are as famous for that 'Deadhead' following as their music. I have 'Live Dead', 'Workingman's Dead', 'American Beauty' and 'Blues For Allah'. Although they have some moments I really like, this lot were not great with melodies, IMHO. Musically, they are a bit draggy at times, too, IMHO. 'Blues For Allah' is my favourite of those albums; arguably the closest they ever came to prog (some say 'Terrapin Station' too) but even then, not enough to be included here, IMHO. |
and you James have hit the nail on the head... draggy is the best description for it... the Deadheads were silly twits escaping reality.. but it was the perfect music for dropping in... firing up a J and tuning out to the sounds of a band noodling away... and if reality escaped you for a bit... no problem... by the time you focus back in on the music..you have no worries mate.. you haven't missed a damn thing.
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harsh man....you should have written for Rolling Stone (ahhh...you're probably far too coherent for that). I wish we had more bands like the Dead now, or I mean...more shows like Dead shows  , seems like we could use a bit of dropping out these days
Edited by jimmy_row - January 03 2008 at 22:10
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Intruder
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Posted: January 04 2008 at 06:14 |
Still no respect at the PA for the good ol' Gratfeful Dead....the Airplane and Phish are in, but the band that is the template for both remain out? We've heard the arguements against inclusion, like those points bluntly laid out by Micky earlier in this thread....but how can we exlude a band that's been so influential to progressive rock?
You can feel their imprint on the Krautrock and Canterbury scenes; they were right there at the beginning of space rock/psychadelia - practically invented it for Gawd's sakes; Jerry Garcia was doing jazz-fusion stuff before the term even existed! They were doing 45 minute Coltrane-inspired, free form covers of "Louie, Louie" back in '64.....in the era of the two and a half minute single and the art house folk scene, these guys were kicking down barriers and taking music in unheard of tangents. They were doing things with feedback and electronic devices in 1965 that Klaus Schulze and his crew were "pioneering" in 1970....no respect, man, no respect.
But I've beaten at this door before and have been told the same old "no room for folk-country jam bands" excuse. All I'd like to do is open more people up to the Dead....a great American progressive rock band....Styx? Rush? Kansas? Recycled prog. The Dead are the real things!
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I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there.....
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Grateful Dead?
