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Mandrakeroot View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: "Golden Prog Era" thread
    Posted: December 05 2007 at 12:12
I'm a fan of "Golden Prog Era" (1967/ 1976 with an extension until 1980) years.
 
I think that the album of these era, from Masterpieces to the incredible ugliness have one power and magic that the contemporary albums (or better bands) don't have.
 
So this thread is born for express all you have in your head in reference to the "Golden Prog Era"


Edited by Mandrakeroot - December 05 2007 at 12:14
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2007 at 12:18
Would this be highlighted by the use of the quintessential instrument...the Mellotron? Too many albums to count. But indeed I would say it is the Golden Era of Prog. At least, traditional ProgRock.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2007 at 12:32
Originally posted by StyLaZyn StyLaZyn wrote:

Would this be highlighted by the use of the quintessential instrument...the Mellotron? Too many albums to count. But indeed I would say it is the Golden Era of Prog. At least, traditional ProgRock.
 
Certainty the Mellotron (and Hammond organs) is the Prog instrument. But I think that record support is great in this sense. I listen Semirami's "Dedicato A Frazz" album in record support in Red Moon Records. I've bought the CD version but... Disappoint, disgust... The magic where is it? So I cursed to have wanted to save € 15,00!
 
But I think also that many "Golden Prog Era" are born with sincere and chance intentions. See "Rock Millenstones: Wishbone Ash: Argus". And you will understand that this epochal album is an infinite demo!  They wanted to they understand that solo of guitar was better...  One in right speaker and one in left speakers with only John Tout's Hammond Carpet... The creator of the cover enters and...  He says that the two soli were perfect so...  "Throw Down The Sword" is with these two twin soli in one in definitive version. And "Vas Dis" from "Pilgrimage"? Is the last test of this song... but the producer recorded this test and Since to him it appeared perfect...  Here the version of "Vas Dis" in "Pilgrimage".
 
Today it is all planned and they don't come more produced album in this manner.  So it is lost the magic that the Prog should have! 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2007 at 17:59
I hope this does not become a 'mellotron appreciation thread' again... LOL

What really amazes me from this era, apart from the quality of the albums produced,
is the number of albums that came out in few years. What I mean is, look at a few
bands and count the albums they produced in 5 years (i.e. 70-75) and look at the
quality too... there must have been a miracle these days... any reports of UFOs Question Wink

Examples: Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Genesis, Tull, Floyd, Uriah Heep, Eloy, King Crimson
                   
just to mention some of my favourites from that era...
these bands produced from 4 to 8!!! (Heep) studio albums in 5 years
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2007 at 00:05
Originally posted by aapatsos aapatsos wrote:

I hope this does not become a 'mellotron appreciation thread' again... LOL

What really amazes me from this era, apart from the quality of the albums produced,
is the number of albums that came out in few years. What I mean is, look at a few
bands and count the albums they produced in 5 years (i.e. 70-75) and look at the
quality too... there must have been a miracle these days... any reports of UFOs Question Wink

Examples: Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Genesis, Tull, Floyd, Uriah Heep, Eloy, King Crimson
                   
just to mention some of my favourites from that era...
these bands produced from 4 to 8!!! (Heep) studio albums in 5 years


That's very true, I never even thought of it. I guess it shows that it doesn't take 3 - 5 years for a band to put out a great album (Ayreon or Tool anyone?).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2007 at 02:54















Thank you, thank you. *bows* *leaves*
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2007 at 03:12
I've always thought you could make good case for dating the "Golden Era" from the release of The Yes Album to the release of Going for the One.  While there are a few landmark releases prior to TYA, it doesn't seem that prog really hits it's stride until 1971,  Similarly, after 1977 there is a very little happening in the prog scene that is really prog, except for a few groups that were always marginal to begin with still progging on and some refugees from mainstream of prog refusing to say die.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2007 at 03:26
^But in 1967, something really interesting was happening in the underground scene - it's quite clear that that year was the birth of Prog, as evidenced by the Moodies, Procol Harum, Zombies, Tomorrow - and not forgetting Floyd, Soft Machine, the Nice, Spooky Tooth/Art et al.
 
In the US, things were exciting too - although not Prog as we know it, Country Joe and the Fish, Airplane et al were releasing exciting, experimental and progressive music - indeed, the "underground" scene put an emphasis on progressive music, and that's the sort of time the phrase "progressive rock" was used. I even found the first recorded use of the term on an album - albeit an album dated 1968 - although the term "progressive music" was much more common currency, as was "progressive blues".
 
- and then, of course, there were the leading lights - the Beatles' Sgt Pepper, Beach Boys' Pet Sounds, Dylan's Highway 61 and the evolution of the Byrds' sounds.
 
All of these exciting developments came together to form Prog - so whether you want to consider the "Golden Era" as starting at the point at which it got into full swing (1970-71), it's true "birth" (1969 - ITCOTCK) the gestation period (67-9) - or even it's inception (1965, when Dylan went electric at Newport - or possibly some earlier date, as many of the essential elements of Prog were put into place much earlier) - that's up to you.
 
In 1976-7, punk nearly killed Prog off, but for a few stalwarts (that was definitely the end of the "Golden Era") - but in 1980, it was revived, albeit in a comparatively minor way. Nevertheless, Marillion played their part, and it's largely thanks to them (and their frequent appearances at rock and metal festivals in the 1980s, not to mention their stubborn refusal to go away) that Prog and Prog Metal still exist as active forms of rock music and not just an entry in the history books.


Edited by Certif1ed - December 06 2007 at 03:27
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2007 at 04:09
I can't help but agree with you Mandy... as much as I love many modern bands, there was something special about that music, and the warm sounds that equipment produced


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2007 at 08:41
Here's something that adds to the charm of early Prog. The overall sound. Today's studio recordings seem to lack something I really liked. Slight muddiness. Yes, really. That almost recorded in the basement sound, but mixed too well for basement. Anyone know what I'm talking about? I hear it on old Genesis especially. Rush's Hemisphere's has it as well.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2007 at 09:18
Originally posted by Mandrakeroot Mandrakeroot wrote:

 
Today it is all planned and they don't come more produced album in this manner.  So it is lost the magic that the Prog should have! 
 
You've put your finger on it - it's that whole composed/improvised combination that gives Prog the "magical ingredient" - it's what grew out of the late 1960s scenes and more or less disappeared in 1976.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2007 at 11:47
Mellotron - no  Moog surely and other electronic synths. On Erik N's thread on the Hammond organ, we've already made the observation that the Hammond was favoured at the heavy end of prog (rather than mainstream when it might one of several keyboard instruments used  or not used at all) but more so the Hammond being used in the straight heavy rock area. Yes dumped their Hammond-favouring keyboard player Tony Kaye for more inclined towards synths player Rick Wakeman. Compared with other instruments only a few keyboardists in jazz rock favoured the Hammond over other similar instuments e.g. the Lowery, or electric piano (e.g. the Fender Rhodes) and synth caught on there quickly - e.g. Jan Hammer pioneering the Mini-Moog, Chick Corea favouring almost a standard array of prog keyboards with RTF. Exceptions: Larry Young, Brian Auger then I'm hard pressed to come up with prominent names.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2007 at 13:15
Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Originally posted by Mandrakeroot Mandrakeroot wrote:

 
Today it is all planned and they don't come more produced album in this manner.  So it is lost the magic that the Prog should have! 
 
You've put your finger on it - it's that whole composed/improvised combination that gives Prog the "magical ingredient" - it's what grew out of the late 1960s scenes and more or less disappeared in 1976.
 
 
Thanks, Certif1ed. Your words give back me much happy.
 
Uhm... Yes, the "Golden Prog Era" born in 1969 and died in 1976. But I think that this era it should be considered from "Procol Harum", "The Thoughts Of Emmerlist Davjack" and "Days Of Future Passed" to "Drama" and "Yesshows". And yes, the period 1970/ 1975 is sure the fundamental period for the "Golden Prog Era".
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2007 at 00:38
Don't underrate Sgt Peppers for kickstarting prog.  Today it doesn't sound like it has much in common with the classic big 5 or whatever the count is, but in its time, it was a far more ambitious album than any other rock band had tried.  It also featured some of Lennon's psychadelic classics like Lucy in the Sky, Mr. Kite and Say in the Life.
 
But there really was an explosion of creativity in the early 70s with Yes (The Yes Album, Fragile & Close to the Edge), Genesis (Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot, Selling England and The Lamb), ELP (ELP, Tarkus, Trilogy, Brain Salad), Floyd (Meddle, Dark Side, Wish You Were Here, Animals) and Tull (Benefit, Aqualung, Thick as a Brick).  They all were released in a 5 year span, as well as some others already cited.
 
Just prior to that, the Moodys had a string of spacy albums and King Crimson had probably the first truly identifiable prog album.  What an amazing era.
 
 
Casting doubt on all I have to say...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2007 at 09:42
Well... See my "Drama" by Yes review... The last "Golden Prog Era" album!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2007 at 23:47
Originally posted by StyLaZyn StyLaZyn wrote:

Here's something that adds to the charm of early Prog. The overall sound. Today's studio recordings seem to lack something I really liked. Slight muddiness. Yes, really. That almost recorded in the basement sound, but mixed too well for basement. Anyone know what I'm talking about? I hear it on old Genesis especially. Rush's Hemisphere's has it as well.
 
Instruments like the Mellotron and Hammond play a large role in this, but the main thing is that back then everything was recorded analog, onto audio tape. Now everything is recorded digitally. You can do a lot of cool things with digital recording, but making a nice, warm sounding album apparently isn't one of them. If I was in a band and was seeking out a recording studio, I would seek out a retro studio. Digital recording gives vastly different genres a sameness to them. Pro Tools is Pro Tools and it doesn't matter as much what the physical environment of the studio is when you use it.
 
BRING BACK ANALOG RECORDING!!!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2007 at 08:25
While I am a veteran of the "golden era" myself and fully indulged my young senses in its splendor, I am thoroughly overjoyed to find that the spirit of the genre is still alive in the 21st century and being carried on by groups and individuals all over the planet.  I still get a thrill when I pop in a CD of a symphonic prog band that I haven't heard yet and am reminded of that same sense of wonder and adventure I felt when putting on, say, Relayer for the first time in the 70s.  Prog on!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2007 at 13:04
Originally posted by ES335 ES335 wrote:

Originally posted by StyLaZyn StyLaZyn wrote:

Here's something that adds to the charm of early Prog. The overall sound. Today's studio recordings seem to lack something I really liked. Slight muddiness. Yes, really. That almost recorded in the basement sound, but mixed too well for basement. Anyone know what I'm talking about? I hear it on old Genesis especially. Rush's Hemisphere's has it as well.
 
Instruments like the Mellotron and Hammond play a large role in this, but the main thing is that back then everything was recorded analog, onto audio tape. Now everything is recorded digitally. You can do a lot of cool things with digital recording, but making a nice, warm sounding album apparently isn't one of them. If I was in a band and was seeking out a recording studio, I would seek out a retro studio. Digital recording gives vastly different genres a sameness to them. Pro Tools is Pro Tools and it doesn't matter as much what the physical environment of the studio is when you use it.
 
BRING BACK ANALOG RECORDING!!!!
The problem with too many recordings at the height of prog, was analog recording. Two track, four track, 8, 16 and so forth, rcording equipment - and every time bands/producers want to lay down more layers of recording that multi-track machine would allow. So analog recording was overlaid onto analog recording - increasing residual tape hiss; solutioncut back on the treble, with loss of some hiss and warmth, but not the full audio expereince as original heard in the studio. Then deliberate clipping or compression to ensure a 45 minute plus analog, electro-mechanical readable recording could get placed onto two sides of vinyl - when the optimum without  clipping, (so avoiding top and bottom end loss), was to have 15 minutes maximum a side. So with loss of the treble end, hey it is a more warmer sound. And then compression so AM and then certain poorer quality  FM radio stations could cope with broadcasting a recording - hey yet more warmth with frequency loss at one end and boost towards the bottom end. If you want an illustration of how bad these problems could be, check out Deep Purple's In Rock, in the pre-remastered and the remastered forms, the former is so muddy both on vinyl and cd. With the quality of the remaster semi-digital recordings nowadays may renders the original release unlistenable to a 21st century listener.
 
Finally, also remember that stereo format for pop and rock records was only standard from about 1968, and even then few folks (especially younger people) had stereo equipment this side of the Atlantic. And boy we did have to put up with some sh*t; why:
 
1. It was new technology - teething problems relating to scale of market.
2. Audiophiles (i.e. the middle aged and middle class) had their tastes catered for - and the record industry had distain for the growing youth market - hence best quality and attention went into serious music recordings and those labels calling thermselves 'audiophile series' - Decca was at first with stereo dreadful for rock, with the exception of the Moody's Days Of - which was issued originally on Decca audiophile label!
3. Quality of pressings, as indicated, was below parr, but when rock records started to shift in millions of units, the record companies got greedy and deliberately kept sub-masters on their presses long after these had started to wear and deteriorate. Hence poor pressings.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2007 at 21:04
Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Originally posted by Mandrakeroot Mandrakeroot wrote:

 
Today it is all planned and they don't come more produced album in this manner.  So it is lost the magic that the Prog should have! 
 
You've put your finger on it - it's that whole composed/improvised combination that gives Prog the "magical ingredient" - it's what grew out of the late 1960s scenes and more or less disappeared in 1976.
 
Except not really...Oh wait, this isn't the right thread to argue with people who are stuck in the past.
 
Carry on. I'll agree that it was definately the best for traditional symphonic, but doesn't it sort of win that by default?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 16 2007 at 11:16
Originally posted by Dick Heath Dick Heath wrote:

Originally posted by ES335 ES335 wrote:

Originally posted by StyLaZyn StyLaZyn wrote:

Here's something that adds to the charm of early Prog. The overall sound. Today's studio recordings seem to lack something I really liked. Slight muddiness. Yes, really. That almost recorded in the basement sound, but mixed too well for basement. Anyone know what I'm talking about? I hear it on old Genesis especially. Rush's Hemisphere's has it as well.
 
Instruments like the Mellotron and Hammond play a large role in this, but the main thing is that back then everything was recorded analog, onto audio tape. Now everything is recorded digitally. You can do a lot of cool things with digital recording, but making a nice, warm sounding album apparently isn't one of them. If I was in a band and was seeking out a recording studio, I would seek out a retro studio. Digital recording gives vastly different genres a sameness to them. Pro Tools is Pro Tools and it doesn't matter as much what the physical environment of the studio is when you use it.
 
BRING BACK ANALOG RECORDING!!!!
The problem with too many recordings at the height of prog, was analog recording. Two track, four track, 8, 16 and so forth, rcording equipment - and every time bands/producers want to lay down more layers of recording that multi-track machine would allow. So analog recording was overlaid onto analog recording - increasing residual tape hiss; solutioncut back on the treble, with loss of some hiss and warmth, but not the full audio expereince as original heard in the studio. Then deliberate clipping or compression to ensure a 45 minute plus analog, electro-mechanical readable recording could get placed onto two sides of vinyl - when the optimum without  clipping, (so avoiding top and bottom end loss), was to have 15 minutes maximum a side. So with loss of the treble end, hey it is a more warmer sound. And then compression so AM and then certain poorer quality  FM radio stations could cope with broadcasting a recording - hey yet more warmth with frequency loss at one end and boost towards the bottom end. If you want an illustration of how bad these problems could be, check out Deep Purple's In Rock, in the pre-remastered and the remastered forms, the former is so muddy both on vinyl and cd. With the quality of the remaster semi-digital recordings nowadays may renders the original release unlistenable to a 21st century listener.
 
Finally, also remember that stereo format for pop and rock records was only standard from about 1968, and even then few folks (especially younger people) had stereo equipment this side of the Atlantic. And boy we did have to put up with some sh*t; why:
 
1. It was new technology - teething problems relating to scale of market.
2. Audiophiles (i.e. the middle aged and middle class) had their tastes catered for - and the record industry had distain for the growing youth market - hence best quality and attention went into serious music recordings and those labels calling thermselves 'audiophile series' - Decca was at first with stereo dreadful for rock, with the exception of the Moody's Days Of - which was issued originally on Decca audiophile label!
3. Quality of pressings, as indicated, was below parr, but when rock records started to shift in millions of units, the record companies got greedy and deliberately kept sub-masters on their presses long after these had started to wear and deteriorate. Hence poor pressings.
 
You make some valid points. I'm certainly not advocating a return to the equipment that Sgt Pepper was recorded on. However, the technology advanced in leaps and bounds between 1967 and the mid 70's. Heck, Sgt. Pepper would have sounded different if it had been recorded just a few years later as one can tell by the very different sound of the Abbey Road album. That said, I still think, oh, let's say Relayer, or Lamb Lies Down on Broadway or Dark Side of the Moon would not sound better if recorded on modern equipment.
 
And while Sgt. Pepper might sound better recorded on the same equipment as those 70's classics, it still might lose some of it's charm.
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