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Raff 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
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Points: 24429
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 Posted: November 17 2007 at 02:51 |
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I hope you all realise that moving Black Sabbath and Iron Maiden will cause a riot in the forums. The PMT rejected Iron Maiden for inclusion in Prog-Metal, and I don't think they will go back on their decision. As to BS in Heavy Prog, that would probably entail moving Deep Purple (see my above post) and Led Zeppelin as well. Seen as some people react to such suggestion as if someone had proposed their mother being killed, I would say this has no chance whatsoever of going through. Sorry for being negative, but I've learnt my lessons well.
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The Whistler
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 30 2006
Location: LA, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 7113
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Posted: November 17 2007 at 02:53 |
Riot? I'm already mad that Sabbath is here right now!
As part of my contract, I HAVE to review every single Sabbath album that features Tony Iommi. Which would be...lemme think...crap, all of them!
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"There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson
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ghost_of_morphy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2755
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Posted: November 17 2007 at 02:58 |
 Ghost Rider wrote:
I hope you all realise that moving Black Sabbath and Iron Maiden will cause a riot in the forums. The PMT rejected Iron Maiden for inclusion in Prog-Metal, and I don't think they will go back on their decision. As to BS in Heavy Prog, that would probably entail moving Deep Purple (see my above post) and Led Zeppelin as well. Seen as some people react to such suggestion as if someone had proposed their mother being killed, I would say this has no chance whatsoever of going through. Sorry for being negative, but I've learnt my lessons well. |
While I agree with all of the above, I can't help but think that there is a better home out there for Rainbow.
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 27 2005
Location: Nauru
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Points: 46301
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Posted: November 17 2007 at 02:59 |
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My thoughts on four bands:
Alan Parsons Project has a bit of music which to be more progressive, yet, thinking of his general style, of his 80s shining attitude and his 90s period (which is full of musical failures) - for me, right after the "astounding" Tales, APP is no better than rock, pop-rock, then AOR etc.
Jon Anderson should definitely not leave Prog Related. Many see in Olias a great pretext for him to be progressive, when in fact that album is the best he managed to create. Anderson is a solo artist unlike any Yes fan could imagine: from pop and simplest rock to ambient/melody/new age (Angels Embrace) and mystic music, from fairytale concepts (Opio, Earthmotherearth) to unnatural easy music. Jon Anderson is, IMO, not a progressive artist.
Syd Barrett's solo albums are a small moment of art; in there lies his personal style of psychedelic poetry, smoky acoustic guitars and deep-dish heavy, even if minimal, emotions. While you can consider it psych, there's definitely blues, rock, lyrical music and 60s pop in these albums - and something doesn't feel as "progressive". I always thought that Barrett's place in Related is very fine, but, in case Psych Team will accept the move, I guess it's can be even better for his music
no for Black Sabbath in Heavy..
Edited by Ricochet - November 17 2007 at 03:00
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ghost_of_morphy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2755
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Posted: November 17 2007 at 03:12 |
Ricochet wrote:
Jon Anderson should definitely not leave Prog Related. Many see in Olias a great pretext for him to be progressive, when in fact that album is the best he managed to create. Anderson is a solo artist unlike any Yes fan could imagine: from pop and simplest rock to ambient/melody/new age (Angels Embrace) and mystic music, from fairytale concepts (Opio, Earthmotherearth) to unnatural easy music. Jon Anderson is, IMO, not a progressive artist.
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I'll agree with this. Olias, a third of Animation, and the song Song of Seven should not be enough to get him out of prog related.
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
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Posted: November 17 2007 at 05:21 |
Great thread. As it was instigated at the suggestion of a member of the Admin Team, I'm sure we will be supportive of any proposals.
Are there any you want us to look at jsut now?
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429
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Posted: November 17 2007 at 05:49 |
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Speaking on behalf of the HP team, I'd like to take a listen to Bram Stoker, whom I've always seen referred to as Heavy Prog. I'll take a look at the list of PR bands to see if there are any others that might qualify.
Then, there is the matter of Deep Purple, which when was touched upon opened a serious can of worms, due to the association of the band with hard rock and heavy metal. Being well aware of the unrest such a move would cause, I would've never put forward such a proposal if I hadn't listened very carefully to the band's whole output. I don't want to move them to HP just because I like them.. I love BS, but I wouldn't be in favour of moving them, Led Zeppelin or Blue Oyster Cult.
As regards Iron Maiden, they were rejected by the PMT, and I think their decision should be respected, whatever my personal opinion may be. On any account, we should be prepared to a very strong backlash if we decide to move any bands from PR - especially seen what recently happened with the PT move.
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Atkingani
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: October 21 2005
Location: Terra Brasilis
Status: Offline
Points: 12288
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Posted: November 17 2007 at 08:00 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
micky wrote:
ClemofNazareth wrote:
Great thread! Let's move all of them somewhere...
A few suggestions:
Oysterhead - Crossover
Black Sabbath - Heavy Prog
Fairport Convention - Prog Folk (and yes, I know that's where they were moved from)
FM - Crossover
Klaatu - Crossover
Iron Maiden - some sort of metal genre - this one just seems silly IMHO
Syd Barrett - psych (ditto)
Bram Stoker - Heavy Prog
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great suggestion Bob....
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You forgot one act that is in Proto-Prog, but which would fit Heavy Prog to a T.... A British band formed in the late '60 and still active nowadays, famous for its many line-up changes and for having created one of the seminal rock riffs. They had a hell of a Hammond organ player, and at least four of their albums are prog - not to mention the numerous references to our beloved genre in many of the following albums.
Did you guess?
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(Admin hat off)
If only this move is done I think this thread has reached its purpose... even not being in the Related purgatory, they are in the Proto limbo just waiting to be saved by a gentle soul. PROCOL HARUM, what a progressive band!
(Admin hat on)
I read somewhere that Rick Wright was approved to enter the hallowed pavillion, is it true? In this case (and for other cases as well), I ask the team to send a PM to one of the Admins (generally Bob has received these requests) for being evaluated. Thanks!
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Guigo
~~~~~~
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Raff
Special Collaborator
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Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
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Points: 24429
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Posted: November 17 2007 at 08:04 |
Guigo, I was actually referring to Deep Purple ... However, I think Procol Harum would also deserve a chance to get out of that limbo. Remaining with Proto-Prog, there is a band that should probably be moved to Heavy Prog, namely Andromeda (UK), who were placed in Proto prior the AR split. I'd also like to check out Bakerloo, who are supposed to have heavier elements.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: November 17 2007 at 08:10 |
hmmm, wants and gets are probably not the same. 
Looking through the PR list there are many bands I have never heard.
Of those I have...
As has been said before, yes to Rick Wright - Broken China and Wet Dreams are 100% prog and fitting for Crossover.
I'm ambivalent on Jon Anderson, Olias is good Prog, but the rest overshadows that IMO.
APP - I'm the one holding up APP for moving to Xover because I haven't heard enough of them to form an opinion, same for Styx. 
Roxy Music are a quintessential Art Rock band for me, but I accept their place in PR as being apt for their Top-40 image.
Same for Japan, who were what Art Rock became in the 80s (if you ignore their Synth-pop Quiet Life). I'm happy with Sylvian and Rain Tree Crow being in Crossover and Japan remaining in PR, but I liked the idea of keeping them all in one place because that is how I file them in my own collection
Phil Manzanera's 801 were a live continuation of Quiet Sun and Eno solo thus Art Rock and Canterbury tinged. His solo albums are an eclectic fusion of Canterburyish, Spanish folk, Art Rock and non-mainstream pop. I would nominate both for Xover since they are not true Canterbury.
Vangelis - there have been a few threads on him stating that he has produced 3 or 4 100% prog albums, unfortunately he has made many many more albums that are not (much like J M Jarre). And as a fan of Larry Fast's Synergy I don't fully understand why they are PR and not Electronic Prog, but accept that Team's better knowledge on such matters.
Coheed and Cambria - as much as I like this band, their latest album has nailed their coffin for remaining PR I think.
And finally, (Cyril)
Kalevala - the name intrigues me because of the Finnish Epic Poem and the various artists concept album of the same name. The single sample on the PA is a good candidate for Heavy Prog or Eclectic - any one have any thoughts on this band?
On a different note - what are peoples' thoughts on Jeff Buckley for PR?
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What?
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Atkingani
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: October 21 2005
Location: Terra Brasilis
Status: Offline
Points: 12288
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Posted: November 17 2007 at 08:13 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
Guigo, I was actually referring to Deep Purple... However, I think Procol Harum would also deserve a chance to get out of that limbo.
Remaining with Proto-Prog, there is a band that should probably be moved to Heavy Prog, namely Andromeda (UK), who were placed in Proto prior the AR split. I'd also like to check out Bakerloo, who are supposed to have heavier elements.
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Knowing your "metal soul" I know it probably was... but I wouldn't lose the opportunity to sell my fish (many parts of your post fits well for PH too). 
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Guigo
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micky
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Points: 46833
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Posted: November 17 2007 at 08:21 |
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I think PH might be a nice fit for Xover.. no?
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Raff
Special Collaborator
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Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429
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Posted: November 17 2007 at 08:23 |
darqdean wrote:
Kalevala - the name intrigues me because of the Finnish Epic Poem and the various artists concept album of the same name. The single sample on the PA is a good candidate for Heavy Prog or Eclectic - any one have any thoughts on this band?
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I have my own copy of the Italian translation of the Kalevala lying on a chair beside my desk... It is probably the best translation ever made, much better then the English ones I've seen so far. I am writing a dissertation on Finnish fairy tales, so my mind is never far from those subjects!  That said, we must have some uncanny ESP connection, because I thought much the same thing earlier this morning. I have some material by them, which I'd be happy to send your way if you want to form a clearer idea. I've seen them referred to as HP on a couple of sites too. David and I will assess them gladly, and Eetu will be very happy too, since he asked me to see if they could be moved about a year ago  .
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: November 17 2007 at 08:26 |
micky wrote:
I think PH might be a nice fit for Xover.. no?
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Peter Hammill????!!! 
Oh, Procal Harum - yes I concur (I've got their first 4 albums, I need to listen to Grand Hotel)
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What?
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micky
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: November 17 2007 at 08:29 |
darqdean wrote:
micky wrote:
I think PH might be a nice fit for Xover.. no?
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Peter Hammill????!!!
Oh, Procal Harum - yes I concur (I've got their first 4 albums, I need to listen to Grand Hotel) |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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markosherrera
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 01 2006
Location: World
Status: Offline
Points: 3252
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Posted: November 17 2007 at 08:30 |
Split Enz
xtc
City
not too prog..
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: November 17 2007 at 08:34 |
markosherrera wrote:
Split Enz
xtc
City
not too prog.. |
Are you nominating Split Enz and City to be move out of the Archive completely?
XTC are not in the archive at all, are you asking for them to be added?
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What?
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: November 17 2007 at 08:40 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
I have my own copy of the Italian translation of the Kalevala lying on a chair beside my desk... It is probably the best translation ever made, much better then the English ones I've seen so far. I am writing a dissertation on Finnish fairy tales, so my mind is never far from those subjects!
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I downloaded the text from the Gutenberg Project sometime ago and, for my sins, failed to read it. I must do that sometime (soon).
Ghost Rider wrote:
That said, we must have some uncanny ESP connection, because I thought much the same thing earlier this morning. I have some material by them, which I'd be happy to send your way if you want to form a clearer idea. I've seen them referred to as HP on a couple of sites too. David and I will assess them gladly, and Eetu will be very happy too, since he asked me to see if they could be moved about a year ago.
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I don't need to hear them as they are probably not going to be Xover, but I'd like to. |
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What?
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: November 17 2007 at 08:43 |
darqdean wrote:
hmmm, wants and gets are probably not the same.
Looking through the PR list there are many bands I have never heard.
Of those I have...
As has been said before, yes to Rick Wright - Broken China and Wet Dreams are 100% prog and fitting for Crossover.
agreed 100%
I'm ambivalent on Jon Anderson, Olias is good Prog, but the rest overshadows that IMO.
ditto....
APP - I'm the one holding up APP for moving to Xover because I haven't heard enough of them to form an opinion, same for Styx.
No hurry on APP... and Styx... if going on
the prog output.. should not be Xover.. but another sub.. and that
....has a snowballs chance in hell of happening
Roxy Music are a quintessential Art Rock band for me, but I accept their place in PR as being apt for their Top-40 image.
The admins are aware of our thoughts of that
Same for Japan, who were what Art Rock became in the 80s (if you ignore their Synth-pop Quiet Life). I'm happy with Sylvian and Rain Tree Crow being in Crossover and Japan remaining in PR, but I liked the idea of keeping them all in one place because that is how I file them in my own collection
Japan... is one, as I posted in our team thread..
I am torn over... personally I think they belong in Xover... but for
other reasons... mainly the views of others I thought they might be best in PR. To keep the peace...and that is a sad way to have to run an archival, reference site.
Phil Manzanera's 801 were a live continuation of Quiet Sun and Eno
solo thus Art Rock and Canterbury tinged. His solo albums are an
eclectic fusion of Canterburyish, Spanish folk, Art Rock and
non-mainstream pop. I would nominate both for Xover since they are not
true Canterbury.
Not familiar with his work
Vangelis - there have been a few threads on him
stating that he has produced 3 or 4 100% prog albums,
unfortunately he has made many many more albums that are not (much like
J M Jarre). And as a fan of Larry Fast's Synergy I don't fully understand why they are PR and not Electronic Prog, but accept that Team's better knowledge on such matters.
3 or 4 prog albums should be enough to get
someone into a prog sub.. .as I said ... this is a prog site.. not a
career overview site.
Coheed and Cambria - as much as I like this band, their latest album has nailed their coffin for remaining PR I think.
And finally, (Cyril)
Kalevala - the name intrigues me because of the
Finnish Epic Poem and the various artists concept album of the same
name. The single sample on the PA is a good candidate for Heavy Prog or
Eclectic - any one have any thoughts on this band?
On a different note - what are peoples' thoughts on Jeff Buckley for PR?
those others there... I have heard of... my not familiar enough to have any sort of opinion hahha
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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markosherrera
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 01 2006
Location: World
Status: Offline
Points: 3252
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Posted: November 17 2007 at 08:47 |
darqdean wrote:
markosherrera wrote:
Split Enz
xtc
City
not too prog.. |
Are you nominating Split Enz and City to be move out of the Archive completely?
XTC are not in the archive at all, are you asking for them to be added? |
for me Split Enz is a good group ,not too prog for be considered prog related,I Believe that I saw XTC in one list of P.A ,and XTC IS NEW WAVE 80,S not prog,and City is a poor band imho...so thats bands must be removed
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suggestions.... groups to be moved OUT of
