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Atkingani 
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 Topic: Are you stubborn about the genre changes?
Posted: November 04 2007 at 10:52 |
Ok, the discussion about the original topic title is now totally exhausted.
Thanks for all posters. Poll closed.
The Admin Team
Edited by Atkingani - November 04 2007 at 10:53
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Guigo
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micky
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Posted: November 03 2007 at 22:10 |
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^ * the evil villian returns .... looks down upon the growing numbers
of peasants and scum of the earth outsides the walls of his tower and
laughs. He yells out the tower... 'Don't you fools know
that you can't kill me offf.... .I signed a 3 movie contract with M@X
and by the time this trilogy is over... I will own the whole village..
not meerly terrorize it*
the townspeople... AND the audience scream in terror.. as the villians
laughing fades to to the intro of The Fountain of Salmacis
munch ...munch ...munch.... .this movie is a good one.... Ivan might be up for an Academy Award for this performance
Edited by micky - November 03 2007 at 22:11
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: November 03 2007 at 22:04 |
Mike wrote:
 Are your Symphonic Prog Schools that much different? From what I've seen they're even much more narrow than what we're currently trying to do in the definitions of the three new PM categories ... |
But we managed to create them inside the frames of Symphonic Prog without altering the structure of the site.
It's even more radical, because we created 10 schools (some have been eliminated and others will soon be presented) but we preferred to keep our changes inside the sub-genre.
But, that's our option.
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Sure. But why should musicians feel limited by these categorisations? I mean, if Yes are categorized as Symphonic, it doesn't imply that they're only that and nothing else.
I think this is very important to keep in mind when looking at any categorisation ... it's only a rule of thumb, a suggestion of how to group a number of artists or albums. It's like saying that "x has something in common with y", not "x is the same as y".
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Incredibly I agree with you Mike, the artists shouldn't feelñ limited by categorization, because at the end they make the music and if they change, then the categorization will also change.
Genesis and Yes were catalogued as Prog and Symphonic, but they also made POP, so it didn't limiited them, Phil Collins even insulted the fans in the concerts 1 or 2 times saying he didn't care what the old fans thought.
The band Sympozion from Israel waas added to Symphonic because they were rejected by Fyusion, but their promoter sent me a mail asking to be moved to Fusion, we added the MP3 (with their written permission) and they were moved
But also agree with Stionebeard they feel limited in some cases, I bet that if you ask 10 Symphonic musicians what do they play, 11 will say Symphonic, but if you ask 10 Neo Prog musicians what do they play:
- 5 Will say Symphonic
- 1 Will say he/she/they don't believe in categories
- 1 will say he/she/they ignore what Neo Prog is
- 1 will say Progressive Rock simply
- 2 At the most will admit they play Neo Prog.
That's because many people see Neo Prog as a "B" class sub-genre, something that must be left in the past.
Iván
BTW: Please somebody kill the narrator, he's giving me aheadache. 
Hey Micky, can't use my rivers of blue ink because Mike is using it. 
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 03 2007 at 22:14
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micky
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Posted: November 03 2007 at 22:02 |
hmmmm..... maybe a change in script might be in order... another post
like that... and I'll have you turning your back on the dark side and
leading the charge on the south side of the tower by the end of the
movie
 
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Atavachron
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Joined: September 30 2006
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Posted: November 03 2007 at 21:57 |
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naw, those two will be the last ones standing.. you know everyone is a sucker for a love story
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micky
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Posted: November 03 2007 at 21:53 |
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ahhhhh..... takes my seat....
just in time for the token love scene between the hot Italian babe and the scawny American guy with the big mouth...
someone needs to kill him off soon... he's irratating as hell
edit...
munch ... munch ...munch.... damn... pretty hot stuff ... what is this damn movie rated.anyway...
Edited by micky - November 03 2007 at 21:55
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Points: 46833
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Posted: November 03 2007 at 21:40 |
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*gets up to go to bathroom. and have a cigarette so I don't miss the
scene where the evil villian returns and seeks revenge for the town's
people insolence by drowning them in blue font*
scares me to death.. no matter how many times I've seen the movie....
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Dean
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Joined: May 13 2007
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Posted: November 03 2007 at 21:39 |
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What?
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: November 03 2007 at 21:36 |
darqdean wrote:
stonebeard wrote:
Let's get back to basics:
Fans of music and critics usually come up with names to categorize movements in music that seem to be distinct, or have some sort of inter-community, or both. This is done because the people categorizing them like doing so and it's helpful to newbies. There may be other more selfish/whatever reasons. Now it seems the musicians being categorized together may or may not like it. They probably don't like being limited in any way whatever the case. They can do whatever they want, maybe taking left turn musically in response to this categorization. No matter, the organizers will amend the genre they belong in, remove them from it, or do something else to make them fit. This is the natural way of things. Critics and fans don' t categorize musicians for musicians' sake, they do it to have a sense of accomplishment and to help out newbies.
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I know from (bitter) experience that life can very difficult for a band once it has been categorised. Once a band has been pigeon-holed into a subgenre it is very difficult to move on: being stuck in a subgenre limits your potential audience, it can also be difficult to get the right gigs if all the promoters remember is the early stuff.
Take Anathema for example, they are still regarded as a Metal band, (and as a Doom Metal band by some cloth-eared hacks in the music press), even though they haven't recorded a Metal album in years (or a Doom Metal album since Darren White left).
People don't like change. They never have and they never will, anything that takes them out of their comfort-zone and alters their view of the world will be resisted. In general you have to change their mind-set before you can make anyother kind of change.
Even under the banner of "Progressive" people complain when a band makes a radical departure from the "safe" ground - and those people are probably the same people who would complain if the same band produced an album that was exactly like the previous one. To them change is only accpetable if it is a small change, one that is natural and logical, and that is wrong.
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I *love* change. And once you see genres as something applied to albums rather than bands they're not really a limiting factor anymore. 
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micky
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Posted: November 03 2007 at 21:31 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Atavachron
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Joined: September 30 2006
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Posted: November 03 2007 at 21:30 |
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micky
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Posted: November 03 2007 at 21:26 |
^ * the evil villian calles in reinforcements*
the audience shrieks in horror
munch.. munch ...munch...
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Atavachron
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Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65266
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Posted: November 03 2007 at 21:24 |
stonebeard wrote:
Let's get back to basics:
Fans of music and critics usually come up with names to categorize movements in music that seem to be distinct, or have some sort of inter-community, or both. This is done because the people categorizing them like doing so and it's helpful to newbies. There may be other more selfish/whatever reasons. Now it seems the musicians being categorized together may or may not like it. They probably don't like being limited in any way whatever the case. They can do whatever they want, maybe taking left turn musically in response to this categorization. No matter, the organizers will amend the genre they belong in, remove them from it, or do something else to make them fit. This is the natural way of things. Critics and fans don' t categorize musicians for musicians' sake, they do it to have a sense of accomplishment and to help out newbies.
Can we at least all agree on this?
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well actually that may not always be the case-- I saw Sleeping People recently and asked the rhythm guitar player how he felt about 'prog' and 'math rock' and being thought of as a part of those styles.. he was quite at ease with the terms and seemed hip to the communities that accept the band's music, reasonably happy to be included in such things as PA, etc. Musicians may want to be liberated from styles themselves, but many don't mind being classed as something.. I don't remember the metal players that I was road crewing for in the 80s disliking the term 'metal' at all, on the contrary
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micky
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Posted: November 03 2007 at 21:24 |
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^ * the evil villians right hand man looks down upon the village
from the window and says.. .HAH!!!!!.... we won't leave quietly
and without a fight*
the audience boos
munch .. munch ...munch...
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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MikeEnRegalia
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Joined: April 22 2005
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Posted: November 03 2007 at 21:22 |
stonebeard wrote:
Let's get back to basics:
Fans of music and critics usually come up with names to categorize movements in music that seem to be distinct, or have some sort of inter-community, or both. This is done because the people categorizing them like doing so and it's helpful to newbies. There may be other more selfish/whatever reasons. Now it seems the musicians being categorized together may or may not like it. They probably don't like being limited in any way whatever the case. They can do whatever they want, maybe taking left turn musically in response to this categorization. No matter, the organizers will amend the genre they belong in, remove them from it, or do something else to make them fit. This is the natural way of things. Critics and fans don' t categorize musicians for musicians' sake, they do it to have a sense of accomplishment and to help out newbies.
Can we at least all agree on this?
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Sure. But why should musicians feel limited by these categorisations? I mean, if Yes are categorized as Symphonic, it doesn't imply that they're only that and nothing else. I think this is very important to keep in mind when looking at any categorisation ... it's only a rule of thumb, a suggestion of how to group a number of artists or albums. It's like saying that "x has something in common with y", not "x is the same as y".
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
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Points: 46833
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Posted: November 03 2007 at 21:22 |
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^
* the prince rides in on his white horse.. .telling the
terrifiied and shell shocket townspeople that the time of deliverence
is upon them*
the audience cheers....
munch.. munch ...munch....
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: November 03 2007 at 21:19 |
stonebeard wrote:
Let's get back to basics:
Fans of music and critics usually come up with names to categorize movements in music that seem to be distinct, or have some sort of inter-community, or both. This is done because the people categorizing them like doing so and it's helpful to newbies. There may be other more selfish/whatever reasons. Now it seems the musicians being categorized together may or may not like it. They probably don't like being limited in any way whatever the case. They can do whatever they want, maybe taking left turn musically in response to this categorization. No matter, the organizers will amend the genre they belong in, remove them from it, or do something else to make them fit. This is the natural way of things. Critics and fans don' t categorize musicians for musicians' sake, they do it to have a sense of accomplishment and to help out newbies.
|
I know from (bitter) experience that life can very difficult for a band once it has been categorised. Once a band has been pigeon-holed into a subgenre it is very difficult to move on: being stuck in a subgenre limits your potential audience, it can also be difficult to get the right gigs if all the promoters remember is the early stuff.
Take Anathema for example, they are still regarded as a Metal band, (and as a Doom Metal band by some cloth-eared hacks in the music press), even though they haven't recorded a Metal album in years (or a Doom Metal album since Darren White left).
People don't like change. They never have and they never will, anything that takes them out of their comfort-zone and alters their view of the world will be resisted. In general you have to change their mind-set before you can make anyother kind of change.
Even under the banner of "Progressive" people complain when a band makes a radical departure from the "safe" ground - and those people are probably the same people who would complain if the same band produced an album that was exactly like the previous one. To them change is only accpetable if it is a small change, one that is natural and logical, and that is wrong.
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What?
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: November 03 2007 at 21:14 |
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munch munch munch.... sip.... *belch*
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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MikeEnRegalia
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Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206
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Posted: November 03 2007 at 21:11 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
^ ok, how about this:
Neo Prog goes wherever Symphonic goes, we keep Progressive Rock as it is and you do whatever you want with Prog Metal.
Noww seriously...Why keep inventing?
I simply responded to your posts. I don't want to change anything about the way Neo Prog is listed here. We made our PM split, and that's about it ... there is no hidden agenda to change any of the other genres.
There's nothing called Classic Progressive Rock, why Neo Prog apart and not RIO or Post Rock.
Of course as soon as you would separate Neo Prog from the classic prog rock movement you could also separate RIO ... and Post Rock is a thing of its own anyway, that's a given. But please remember that what I've posted here about how a hierarchical view of all Prog genre could look like represents my own opinion only. I stand by it, but it is not related to PA (or possible future changes of the website) in any way.
Leave the things how they are, they have worked for the site, it's clear (Or at least it was until we found three sub-genres almost repeated.
That's done, but the structure we have is clear enough, we don't need to invent new things because an obsession of over tagging.
My two cents.
Iván
Are your Symphonic Prog Schools that much different? From what I've seen they're even much more narrow than what we're currently trying to do in the definitions of the three new PM categories ...
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micky
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Posted: November 03 2007 at 20:36 |
me either.... so I just munch away on the popcorn and wonder if
you can get away by the end of the thread all the townpeople
surrounding your home with torches and pitchforks...
at least I didn't have have to pay $8.50 for a ticket hahahhah 
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Are you stubborn about the genre changes?
I agree, but millions don't see it that way 
