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Topic ClosedThe Tech/Extreme Prog metal appreciation
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Points: 4702 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2007 at 06:41
Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Originally posted by FruMp FruMp wrote:

How does everyone here feel about the band Gorguts?, I think it's a bit of a travesty that they were rejected from the archives, they'd fit perfectly in this new genre, they are one of the most technical and avant-garde death metal bands out there.

 

Seems like the same kind of thing as technical metal to me - the riffs may be quirky and full of twists - but they're still repeated riffs, and the songs maintain very simple song structures with multi-section bridges. The overall sound is constant and fits into a very tight, easily identifiable narrow spectrum. In this, there's no difference to standard metal - the difference is only in the detail, not the whole.

 

What I've heard of them is not progressive to my ears - and certainly not avant-garde! John Zorn is avant-garde, as are Spastic Ink, to a lesser degree.


Mmm, which Gorguts album(s) have you heard? Obscura? Just wondering.
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Points: 322 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2007 at 06:12
Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Originally posted by FruMp FruMp wrote:

How does everyone here feel about the band Gorguts?, I think it's a bit of a travesty that they were rejected from the archives, they'd fit perfectly in this new genre, they are one of the most technical and avant-garde death metal bands out there.
 
Seems like the same kind of thing as technical metal to me - the riffs may be quirky and full of twists - but they're still repeated riffs, and the songs maintain very simple song structures with multi-section bridges. The overall sound is constant and fits into a very tight, easily identifiable narrow spectrum. In this, there's no difference to standard metal - the difference is only in the detail, not the whole.
 
What I've heard of them is not progressive to my ears - and certainly not avant-garde! John Zorn is avant-garde, as are Spastic Ink, to a lesser degree.


1.the advance group in any field, esp. in the visual, literary, or musical arts, whose works are characterized chiefly by unorthodox and experimental methods.


Based on that definition I don't see how they couldn't be considered avant-garde.
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Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2007 at 02:45
Originally posted by FruMp FruMp wrote:

How does everyone here feel about the band Gorguts?, I think it's a bit of a travesty that they were rejected from the archives, they'd fit perfectly in this new genre, they are one of the most technical and avant-garde death metal bands out there.
 
Seems like the same kind of thing as technical metal to me - the riffs may be quirky and full of twists - but they're still repeated riffs, and the songs maintain very simple song structures with multi-section bridges. The overall sound is constant and fits into a very tight, easily identifiable narrow spectrum. In this, there's no difference to standard metal - the difference is only in the detail, not the whole.
 
What I've heard of them is not progressive to my ears - and certainly not avant-garde! John Zorn is avant-garde, as are Spastic Ink, to a lesser degree.
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Points: 322 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2007 at 01:55
How does everyone here feel about the band Gorguts?, I think it's a bit of a travesty that they were rejected from the archives, they'd fit perfectly in this new genre, they are one of the most technical and avant-garde death metal bands out there.
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Points: 2888 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2007 at 22:38
Jody I will keep an eye for the two aforementioned albums next time I'm out shopping. I really have not listened to a lot of this music since I was attending school.

I would also like to suggest two Canadian bands. Firstly Martyr, all their studio albums are recommended, I think my favourite would be Warp Zone. The second is Augury, they only have one disc out, but it's definitely worth tracking down. There is a sample on the site to listen to: http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=12849.
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Points: 27802 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2007 at 22:17
Originally posted by Black Velvet Black Velvet wrote:

Just brought Akeldama by The Faceless, on the recommendation from a trusted friend. I don't think I have enjoyed a DM album so much since The Scepter of the Ancients. I see they are on the PM chart, if they get accepted I will be more than willing to add them. 
 
I just added them to the chart a few days ago,excellent stuff.
 
I love this kind of music,and their are two bands in this sub that everyone really needs to check out...Coprofago and Theory in Practice.I would recommend Coprofago's Unorthodox Creative Criteria and TiP's album Colonizing the Sun.


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Points: 2888 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2007 at 20:46
Just brought Akeldama by The Faceless, on the recommendation from a trusted friend. I don't think I have enjoyed a DM album so much since The Scepter of the Ancients. I see they are on the PM chart, if they get accepted I will be more than willing to add them. 
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Points: 7744 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2007 at 20:07
I still don't really see difference between the three metal genres. Embarrassed

Personally, I still endorse the idea of very few subgenres, and if there were to be any cuts, lobbing all the metal together would've been a place to start. But it's not a huge deal for me, I can live with any decisions PA maketh.
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Points: 2819 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2007 at 20:01
The one thing that boggles me about this genre is on how to rate it...or think which one is better then which?
I place UnExpect's - In A Flesh Aquarium at the top...5 stars no doubt.

I just listened to Spiral Architect, Aghora, Spastic Ink and Behold the Arctopus (skullgrid..not nano nucleonic,an utter masterpiece ,...all excellent albums...but so hard to choose. They would all fit the 4 star album pool.

It's just so hard to put one over the other, which one sounds better, more technical? ARGHHHH
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Points: 21128 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2007 at 18:23
Originally posted by jmcdaniel_ee jmcdaniel_ee wrote:

Between the Buried and Me's album Alaska.  Thumbs%20Up


Clap

Check out Becoming the Archetype too if you don't know them already: http://www.myspace.com/becomingthearchetype Big%20smile
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Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2007 at 15:54
Originally posted by FruMp FruMp wrote:

Megadeth and Jarzombek?, hmm hard to see a link...
 
It's not that hard - although it's tenuous (hence the winky).
 
Marty Friedman is the link I had in mind - although there are others.
 
 
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Points: 10616 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2007 at 14:24
I'm an old guy from the 70s and I think some of these new metal bands are incredible. Its not something I want to listen to a lot, but these artists are definitly "progressing" rock music to new places.
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Points: 2819 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2007 at 13:27
Its just as good as any other genre on the archives. If I feel the need to be blown away with sheer talent and precision...I'll listen to this. This genre has been on my priority list lately with bands that I've discovered the past few months like Spastic Ink, Spiral Architect, Sleep Terror, Unexpect, Canvas Solaris, Blotted Science and Behold...The Arctopus.
Dsyrthmia??? and Continuo Renacer (sp???) impressed me as well.
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Points: 141 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2007 at 12:56
Between the Buried and Me's album Alaska.  Thumbs%20Up
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Points: 322 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2007 at 09:50
Megadeth and Jarzombek?, hmm hard to see a link, although on the topic of thrash and technical metal if anyone here is a thrash fan then Coroner are an absolute must, 'Punishment for Decadence' is one of the best tech-thrash albums ever recorded, hell it's one of the best thrash albums ever recorded, it'd probably be top 10.
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Points: 21128 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2007 at 08:38
^ there is some of Megadeth in Jarzombek, but little to none Jarzombek in Megadeth ... that's the thing.

BTW: Some more of the precious little here: http://www.myspace.com/artmetalband Cool
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Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2007 at 08:11
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

The only connection I can think of is attention to technique in the playing. There's precious little else that links the bits and pieces I've heard of this genre to Prog Rock.
 
I used to be in a band that played what we called Technical Thrash. We called it that, because we listened to techniques that other thrash bands used, especially the more technically oriented - like Megadeth, Kreator, etc (this was in 1986), then worked on the techniques to incorporate them into the musical style we wanted to play - and we plundered deeply (although we didn't purloin the actual musical ideas themselves Wink).
 
 


You should really listen to Blotted Science ... I honestly believe you would enjoy it. And *maybe* you'll agree with me that it's quite different from anything that Megadeth, Kreator etc. would play.

http://www.myspace.com/blottedscience

Big%20smile
 
All I had to do was see the name Ron Jarzombek, and I knew that here is part of the "precious little" - but there's still a Megadeth link Wink


Edited by Certif1ed - October 25 2007 at 08:16
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Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2007 at 08:08
Originally posted by FruMp FruMp wrote:

Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

The only connection I can think of is attention to technique in the playing. There's precious little else that links the bits and pieces I've heard of this genre to Prog Rock.
 
 


You need to listen to more of it then. You couldn't really deny that bands like Atheist, Cynic or Spastic Ink are prog
(...)
 
I probably could, if that's what I thought. Wink
 
As it happens, I haven't listened to those bands very much, on a "once bitten..." basis.
 
We are talking about bands that use the standard song structure, with extended instrumental sections, rigid and repetitive riffs (mostly quite short and single-phrase - no actual development or progression per se, just a large number of small ideas strung togther and put through various time signatures to make it sound complicated as opposed to truly compositionally complex) - and that includes the quiet bits, which typically waste the opportunity to compose something interesting, and simply break down a short (and normally exceedingly simple) riff into picked chords, with solos that are normally pyrotechnical displays of various techniques, improvisation, or a combination of the two, rather than true compositions (something that stands out a mile to a composition student).
 
OK, maybe Spastic Ink don't deserve that description, but certainly Atheist and Cynic both do, from what I've heard.
 

Originally posted by FruMp FruMp wrote:


Metal is just an extention of rock too, it falls under the rock umbrella.
 
Well quite, but there's a LOT of rock that isn't Prog, and most metal isn't Prog either.
 
Prog Metal != Prog Rock, and metal has evolved a long way from its' rock roots.
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Points: 24429 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2007 at 06:48
Pity that not everybody here sees them that way... Far too many still think of metal as the prerogative of illiterate, foul-mouthed, hairy yobs, and refuse to see anything progressive about it. The debate currently raging after the PM split actually gave me the idea for a new blog... if I ever get round to sitting down and writing it, that is!LOL
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Points: 65244 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2007 at 06:44
that's right, Raff,  they're among the most forward-pushing acts right now
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