the most technically impressive song? - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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Atavachron View Drop Down

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Posted: October 13 2007 at 18:03

Trademark wrote:

Technicality is NOT impressive.

of course it is, it's the very definition of impressive.. just not the only important thing

Sckxyss

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Posted: October 13 2007 at 19:20

Trademark wrote:

BTW, the meter signature changes you list are NOT, in actual fact, meters at all. The definition of meter according to the Harvard Dictionary of Music is "the pattern in which a steady succession of pulses is organized."

Since the example you've given is neither steady nor forms any kind of repeated succession it, by definition, is NOT METER. It is music written without meter to be more specific. Since the mallest beat value in the sequence listed is a 16th note, all that can be said for the passage in question is that it proceeds with a 16th note "pulse". It has no meter and therefore no meter changes.

Additionally meter signatures with a number of beats larger than 7 or 9 also really don't exist. they can all be broken down into samller repeating beat groupings which would make them much easier to read. The first thing any self-respecting musician does when faced with a piece written in these "false" meters is break down the beat groupings and re-draw the bar lines. 15 or 15/16 doesn't exist in musical reality. So-called complex meters are just another way for the moderately musically educated to "feel superior" about our abilities or knowledge.

I don't see how something that repeats itself every 13 8th notes (13/8 time) contradicts that definition of meter. Please explain. Also, as far as I know, writing something as 13/8 or something of the like, is just an easier way of saying 3/8,3/8,3/8,4/8, and is used for simplicity. They're both equally complex and mean the exact same thing, so how is one way incorrect?

Edited by Sckxyss - October 15 2007 at 02:10

Lucent

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Posted: October 13 2007 at 21:22

stonebeard wrote:

or many Dragonforce songs

Oh, you mean those guys who speed up their recordings?

As far as technicality goes, I believe The Dance Of Eternity gets a vote in there. YYZ, just for its incredible bass performance. Close To The Edge for the beginning riff. La Villa Strangiato, for what it is. Cirkus, for the fact of its symphonic performance, as well as the guitarwork.

rileydog22 View Drop Down

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Posted: October 13 2007 at 22:14

MUST...RESIST....DT FANBOY SPEAK....

heyitsthatguy View Drop Down

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Posted: October 14 2007 at 00:31

rileydog22 wrote:

MUST...RESIST....DT FANBOY SPEAK....

LAWL JON PATRUCHEE RAWKS

he does have some really insanely technical work though

but what I've heard from Behold...the Arctopus is just beyond impossible Confused

despite me not particularly liking them, Psyopus also has some more or less impossible guitarwork as well

let's see who else

Hella's drumwork borders on ridiculous at times

Shakespeare View Drop Down

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Posted: October 14 2007 at 00:37

rileydog22 wrote:

MUST...RESIST....DT FANBOY SPEAK....

I said that EXACTLY in a different thread. I'm having deja vu.

Asphalt

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Posted: October 14 2007 at 01:11

Trademark wrote:

Technicality is NOT impressive.

...

So-called complex meters are just another way for the moderately musically educated to "feel superior" about our abilities or knowledge.

Wel there you have it. The musically non-educated feel, thus dwarfed, or at least impressed by the ability of those with - at least - moderate music knowledge. For most of us, who don't know about the fine mechanics of making and playing music, the concepts of constantly changing pulses may be impressive.

After all, this concept - being impressed/impressive - is a subjective one, and not even Harvard dictionaries can decide what is and what is not impressive to each and everyone of us. Lighten up!

heyitsthatguy View Drop Down

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Posted: October 14 2007 at 01:53

Asphalt wrote:

Trademark wrote:

Technicality is NOT impressive.

...

So-called complex meters are just another way for the moderately musically educated to "feel superior" about our abilities or knowledge.

cuncuna

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Posted: October 14 2007 at 02:01

Any song that uses technique as a tool to elaborate on a more complex tought. "Albion, awake!" would be a good example. Goooooood...

On the other hand, Dreamtheater. No thought at all, technique falling mindlessly from their muscles. They are fine robots, though...

¡Beware of the Bee!

cuncuna

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Posted: October 14 2007 at 02:11

micky wrote:

fuxi wrote:

What's the use of technique without emotion?

depends...

you can get Dream Theater...

but you also get King Crimson

emotion is nice but not necessary

same with technique

I would like not to get Dreamtheater very much, please... Tongue

Art Bears or This Heat are examples of perfect balance. That said, I prefer the horribly executed "Bananamoon" to any perfectly delivered music performance.

¡Beware of the Bee!

chamberry

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Posted: October 14 2007 at 02:23

Visitor13 wrote:

chamberry wrote:

This is the craziest guitarist I've ever seen. I don't know what you consider technical, but this looks pretty technical to me:Mick Barr & Zach Hillhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-plG6mmyI_I

Sweeeet! Thanks for the link!

But I don't think it's that technical - it can't be very clean, for one - it's more about relentlessness...

...Which makes it look impressive. Smile

toolis

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Posted: October 14 2007 at 03:11

to me it must be:

1.Watchtower - Energetic Disassembly
2.Soul Cages - Steps
3.Psychotic Waltz - A Social Grace

Edited by toolis - October 14 2007 at 03:11

-music is like pornography...

sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more...

-sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue...

Visitor13

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Posted: October 14 2007 at 03:40

chamberry wrote:

Visitor13 wrote:

Sweeeet! Thanks for the link!

But I don't think it's that technical - it can't be very clean, for one - it's more about relentlessness...

...Which makes it look impressive. Smile

It sure does.

I think Cert's reply is the most satisfying one, I mean technique cannot only be about speed or precision.

MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down

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Posted: October 14 2007 at 03:52

Trademark wrote:

Technicality is NOT impressive.

BTW, the meter signature changes you list are NOT, in actual fact, meters at all. The definition of meter according to the Harvard Dictionary of Music is "the pattern in which a steady succession of pulses is organized."

Since the example you've given is neither steady nor forms any kind of repeated succession it, by definition, is NOT METER. It is music written without meter to be more specific. Since the mallest beat value in the sequence listed is a 16th note, all that can be said for the passage in question is that it proceeds with a 16th note "pulse". It has no meter and therefore no meter changes.

Additionally meter signatures with a number of beats larger than 7 or 9 also really don't exist. they can all be broken down into samller repeating beat groupings which would make them much easier to read. The first thing any self-respecting musician does when faced with a piece written in these "false" meters is break down the beat groupings and re-draw the bar lines. 15 or 15/16 doesn't exist in musical reality. So-called complex meters are just another way for the moderately musically educated to "feel superior" about our abilities or knowledge.

That has got to be the most arrogant and pretentios dribble I ever read in this forum. LOL

Have you even listened to this piece of music? If not please do yourself a favor and do so ... it actually makes a *lot* of sense to note it this way.

And about meters like 15/16: Of course they exist. Only yesterday I was listening to such a track: Ivanhoe - Bless My Soul. It's clearly 15/16 and not an alternating sequence of 8/8 and 7/8, since the snare drum is at 2 and 4:

   1 . . . 2 . . . 3 . . . 4 . .
bass x     x       x x x     x
snare     x               x

Recently listened to:

indiscipline200 View Drop Down

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Posted: October 14 2007 at 04:21

I gotta put in a plug for Fracture by Fripp and the boys......

Atavachron View Drop Down

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Posted: October 14 2007 at 04:33

^ good call.. other guitar ones;

'Celebration on the Planet Mars' (Ron Jarzombek)
'Mystical Potatohead Groove Thing' (Satch)
'Sails of Charon' (Uli Roth)
'Sequencer' (Di Meola)
'Attitude Song' (Vai)

SirPsycho388 View Drop Down

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Posted: October 14 2007 at 04:59

Steve Vai - Freak Show Excess

Strangers passing in the street by chance two separate glances meet and I am you and what I see is me. And do I take you by the hand and lead you through the land and help me understand the best I can

martinprog77 View Drop Down

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Posted: October 14 2007 at 05:07

every song of liquid tension experiment

Nothing can last
there are no second chances.
Never give a day away.
Always live for today.

FruMp

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Posted: October 14 2007 at 05:15

Albums:

Atheist - Unquestionable presence
Watchtower - Energertic Disassembly
Spastic Ink - Ink complete
Gorguts - Obscura

On a little side note I think it's a travesty that Gorguts weren't added to the archives when you consider that Gorguts are more progressive, avant-garde and technical than a lot of bands in prog-metal or metal bands in prog-related.

Edited by FruMp - October 14 2007 at 05:19

fuxi

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Posted: October 14 2007 at 06:36

cuncuna wrote:

I prefer the horribly executed "Bananamoon" to any perfectly delivered music performance.

Excellent point. Staying in the Gong universe, GAZEUSE and ESPRESSO II are wonderful records (I gave them loads of stars) but BANANAMOON and THE FLYING TEAPOT will bring more smiles to your face!