Black Sabbath inclusion

Ghost Rider wrote: I apologise for the totally useless post, but this is a thread about the inclusion of Black Sabbath in PA - not about Metallica, Jimi Hendrix or I don't know how many other bands and artists. Don't you all think it would be better to start another thread titled, "Bands/artists I believe to be influential for prog, or otherwise influenced by it"? In any case, no one is going to agree on anything. It's been CLEARLY said the admission was requested by the site owner, but still I'm sure in the next few hours there'll be people at each other's throats. What really bugs me big time is PA is considered a 'traitor' to the supposed purity of prog, when there are sites bearing the same word 'prog' in their names, and having everything from The Human League to Toto to Jane's Addiction in their database.

Toto ? Jane's Addiction ? Which site(s) ???

 ^ oh I've seen as bad and worse on, erm, another site containing the word 'ears'... bands like Earth Wind and Fire, Heart, the Scorpions

Jimbo wrote: Black Sabbath's inclusion doesn't affect me one way or the other, but what worries me is that we're steadily losing credibility with every controversial prog-related addition, imo. Max seems to think these additions will attract new audiences - and hey, maybe he's right. We might notice a few Sabbath/Zeppelin fans cropping up in the near future, but at the same time the actual prog fans might abandon us - as has already happened with Dragon Phoenix's announcement. This is a worrying development, imo.

Re : attracting new audiences - are they are any here that might feel that ANY extra attention brought to this prog site might somehow harm Prog's future ? I figure that even among the most hard core Sabbath Metal fans, there will be a few that will be curious to explore the rest of the site. When I fist stumbled onto PA, I wasn't looking for prog recommendations, just some info on PFM & Porcupine Tree. Started reading reviews & POOF - my budget's blown & BOOM - my CD collection increases by 50 albums over the next 6 months (thank God for Spin-It records).
Re : people leaving - I won't say that some departures will not have a negative impact on the site. But every time a Big Name act is added to PA, especially in prog-related, the chicken littles come out screaming the sky is falling. It has yet to happen. If you are passionate about prog, why quit ? Newbies attracted by these same controversial additions will be reading more than just Sab reviews. Yes, there are surely some that will read the Sab & Zep reviews & that's all. But then, there are likely surfers that don't bother with any other genre than Jazz/Fusion, RIO, or Heavy Prog etc ... .
So, please, stay. If you believe your knowledge, info or opinions are valuable, why not keep sharing them as before.

micky wrote: http://www.proggnosis.com/GENRE_PROGSGGuide.asp not that there is anything wrong.. .but Raff is right.. anyone here who thinks this site is overly inclusive..  should go elsewhere and see what all know.. that it isn't.

Haha, these guys have Cat Stevens!

rileydog22 wrote: micky wrote: http://www.proggnosis.com/GENRE_PROGSGGuide.asp not that there is anything wrong.. .but Raff is right.. anyone here who thinks this site is overly inclusive..  should go elsewhere and see what all know.. that it isn't. Haha, these guys have Cat Stevens!

not my intention to slam the site...only to illustrate that a) this site is not an inclusive site and b) we ALL see prog and related differently.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Well guys, you know I'm not in favor of the inclusion of BS, but the chief has spoken and we must accept, there's no use for more debate.   The T wrote: That's the attitude!   Either non-yet-prog-fans will stumble with Sabbath on their searches and find some incredible music (then we gain more people to the prog cause) or "elitists" will leave PA because of this inclusion... Well, it's my opinion, that ANYWAY WE WIN HERE.   BTW: T please, as we know how to lose and accept some facts we don't agree with, you must learn to win, all those cheers, rubbing in our faces and calling us elitists that must leave Prog Archives, cause more problems, please avoid them.   Knowing how to win is harder than knowing how to loose.   Iván

 Ivan, as I've stated in another post (I come back after two days & it's exploded!), I would hate  to see anyone who has a good knowledge of prog leave this site. As your average PA member ( I.e., outside the collabs & Admin) I have a number of collabs & reviewers to whom I give a bit more attention. You are one of them. Not that we share identical tastes, just that you have info or comparisons that I often find helpful in searching out new music here. Plus - Think of it, all the Sabbath fans to educate.

Sean Trane wrote: micky wrote: I really can't believe you all.... albums don't 'deserve' any particular rating.  IF so ..what is the point of reviewing...  just award the damn album 5 stars.. because it is inluential or popular.  sorry to see my example has been ignored.  You can review a non prog album accurately and fairly based on it's prog quotient.  That is fair to all... unless the only thing that matters.. is what the damn ranking is...   Exactly my point.   If I did pull out those rankings, it is to see that on the average these albums on top are the better ones from a given group.       But as I said in the other thread (rating changes) I couldn't care less of those rankings as seen from a general spectrum. Those TOP 100 list are not that trustworthy (they might give an idea, but theway some focus on it, I suspect major skewing) and less on this site than at Progressive Ears  or at Gnosis2000.       So in its finality, I don't care for intergroup comparisons, because PA is not trustworthy    read you tomorrow

And how do the top xx lists on those other sites manage to be more trustworthy ?

debrewguy wrote:    Ivan, as I've stated in another post (I come back after two days & it's exploded!), I would hate  to see anyone who has a good knowledge of prog leave this site. As your average PA member ( I.e., outside the collabs & Admin) I have a number of collabs & reviewers to whom I give a bit more attention. You are one of them. Not that we share identical tastes, just that you have info or comparisons that I often find helpful in searching out new music here. Plus - Think of it, all the Sabbath fans to educate.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: debrewguy wrote:    Ivan, as I've stated in another post (I come back after two days & it's exploded!), I would hate  to see anyone who has a good knowledge of prog leave this site. As your average PA member ( I.e., outside the collabs & Admin) I have a number of collabs & reviewers to whom I give a bit more attention. You are one of them. Not that we share identical tastes, just that you have info or comparisons that I often find helpful in searching out new music here. Plus - Think of it, all the Sabbath fans to educate.   Dopn't worry, I'm not leaving, I heard somebody left, but that's all, I believe Sabbath shouldn't be here, but if the order comes from M@X, there's little we can do.   There are other bands that are even worst, but trhat's how the game is played, we must accept the rules.   Iván

Yes, and as some will say about prog, you sometimes break the rules, or at least stretch them. And I will repeat my idea that PA may get a few Sab fans looking further into prog music.

Sean Trane wrote: IUn the meantime, while everybodywas focusing on insignificant Black Sabbath, none noticed the inclusion of one of the last great omission of this site, the prog folk Chilean group Congreso!!!         Thanks toç Clem, Micky and Cuncuna     Now, THERE IS PROG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And thanks to myself too, because I rescued the band from oblivion, got Cuncuna to send me the samples, and sent them in turn to Micky...

BTW. Hugues, there are still lots of obscure bands from the Seventies that are missing from our DB... Our teams are engaged in a spot of gold-digging, with the help of such invaluable people as Andu, and if you look at the Bands Added section, you'll see a few of them being mentioned.

Now, apart from the self-celebration, my point is, stop bashing the site for adding PR and PP bands to the detriment of real prog acts. This is NOT true. The genre teams are working behind the scenes in order to add as many new and older acts to an already large database - not to mention all the work that goes into adding missing bios and editing already existing ones, tidying discographies up, and monitoring reviews. Not recognising all the work that goes into the managing of this site because of a small number of controversial additions is unfair and offensive, in my very humble opinion.