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Peter 
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 31 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 9669 |
 Posted: October 12 2007 at 22:01 |
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I'm p*ssed off!
 No, not at Sabbath's inclusion (I'm a big boy, and it's hardly the first such "losing" case I've disputed -- c'est la vie
 ) but at the fact that I just laboriously typed an hour-long post (I type slowly) in support of what Finnforest said above about the words in the ratings, but the damned server timed out and it disappeared INTO THE VOID! Aaaarrrgghhhh! (deep breath)
 Suffice to say: don't hold your breath waiting for that LONG overdue change, Finnforest my friend, because I for one have been asking for precisely that, pretty much since day one (and I've been here a while)!
By all accounts, this site does not list only prog music (if that was ever the case -- this broader reach is far from new), so why do we still insist on essentially "inviting" non-prog artists to compete for ratings points in a skewed game where they technically don't even qualify for any grade above a "C" (three stars)???
 It is blatantly unfair, counter-intuitive, and the average Joe review scanner probably doesn't even read those generic words that get forcibly appended to OUR reviews.
Admittedly, I will still give top marks to a non-prog, classic rock album which I find worthy as fine MUSIC (and then I feel compelled to digress and explain that in my review), but many won't (and say as much), and who the heck wants to buy music which is (apparently) only C-grade?
Dump those ratings words, or at least greatly simplify them, and remove all references to "prog" in them! Edited by Peter - October 13 2007 at 00:27 |
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
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Atkingani
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: October 21 2005 Location: Terra Brasilis Status: Offline Points: 12288 |
Posted: October 12 2007 at 22:11 |
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Teo, no one has to leave PA because Black Sabbath was added in the "related" category... all people, "elitists" or not, have more than 3,000 bands to enjoy - it will take an entire life to appreciate them all, I'm quite sure!
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Guigo
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 31 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 9669 |
Posted: October 12 2007 at 22:31 |
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 Now, before I really DO go off the rails on a crazy train  , I'm going to have a cold beer (this unopened one has long since gone warm), bid you all a good night, and play some nice, mindless RA2! 
All abooooaaard! Hahahahaha....
Edited by Peter - October 12 2007 at 22:38 |
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: October 12 2007 at 23:33 |
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I guess my words weren't the right ones...I apologize... What I wanted my word to mean is, and please I hope I'm understood now: if there are people that, just because of BS inclusion in PA, think they have to leave PA, OK! We win. I never intended, NEVER EVER, to say "those who opposed BS inclusion are elitists and must leave". NO! I intended to say that people that can't take the addition of a polemical band and leave because of that are certainly not the kind of music fans I belive are better for PA. Please understand me. If you Ivan (and Atkingani, please) tought I meant anything against you or any other detractor of Sabbath, I APOLOGIZE, with all my respect. But I won't take back my statement that those who leave PA just because ONE band is added, well, they're better off GONE. It's like if I have left when Coheed and Cambria were added. Would I have been the right kind of person to help PA? Would I have even been considered for collaborator? No.
That's what I meant and please, TRIPLE apologies if you misunderstood me.
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24429 |
Posted: October 13 2007 at 02:50 |
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I have to say I'm surprised this thread is still open, and no blood has been shed during the night... Might it be that people have become reasonable in the meantime?
  However, I can't deny I would've been happier if someone had taken notice of my post, which dealt with the issue of the ratings for PP/PR albums... I suppose I'll just have to start a new thread about it! |
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mystic fred
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 13 2006 Location: Londinium Status: Offline Points: 4252 |
Posted: October 13 2007 at 03:09 |
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pleased as i am to see one of my favourite heavy rock bands be included in PA, is it not a bit irritating that experienced reviewers give their prog related albums 5 stars for "essential masterpiece of progressive music" .....and get away with it...??
Edited by mystic fred - October 13 2007 at 03:25 |
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24429 |
Posted: October 13 2007 at 03:13 |
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See Peter's thread in the Help Improve the Site section, Steve... I think it's time to address the question seriously. I have always given those albums 5 stars if I thought they deserved them as masterpieces of MUSIC. However, I agree that the wording should be changed once and for all, otherwise the controversy will never end. |
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mystic fred
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 13 2006 Location: Londinium Status: Offline Points: 4252 |
Posted: October 13 2007 at 03:36 |
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will check it, but , theoretically some prog related albums could, if enough 5 star ratings are given, could overshadow the 100%prog groups and push them down in the ratings, we could then end up with for example Led Zep, Iron Maiden Sabbath and Deep Purple at the top of the ratings on a prog rock site, and some worthy prog bands shoved into obscurity.?
much as i value pr/pp on this site as it serves the influences and development of prog, i suggest allowing NO ratings for proto prog and prog related at all...?
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10678 |
Posted: October 13 2007 at 04:01 |
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I guess since I'm reading this I should throw in an opinion too, I think the idea of different ratings words for bands like Zep or Sabbath is a good one.
Edited by Easy Money - October 13 2007 at 04:03 |
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20410 |
Posted: October 13 2007 at 06:49 |
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So far this is hardly disgraceful:
No abuse really!! And in one week time, it'll have blown over!!!
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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mystic fred
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 13 2006 Location: Londinium Status: Offline Points: 4252 |
Posted: October 13 2007 at 06:58 |
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^ i always liked "Technical Ecstasy" and "Never Say Die" - not normal Sabs material admittedly but not poor.
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Trickster F.
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: February 10 2006 Location: Belize Status: Offline Points: 5308 |
Posted: October 13 2007 at 07:00 |
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I agree, there are at least 4 songs on each of those I am really fond of.
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24429 |
Posted: October 13 2007 at 07:06 |
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I don-t see why we should rejoice or anything at an album having a low rating just because it-s not prog... I am afraid that, in my very odd opinion, it sounds a little bit like a form of fanaticism. Mind you, Hugues or anyone else, this remark is NOT directed at you... However, nothing and no one will stop me from giving 5 stars to Heaven and Hell, if I ever get to reviewing it. The fact of giving those albums a lower rating because they-re not prog is absurd to me, as I made it abundantly clear in that other thread in Help Improve the site.
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Abstrakt
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: August 18 2005 Location: Soundgarden Status: Offline Points: 18292 |
Posted: October 13 2007 at 07:09 |
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20410 |
Posted: October 13 2007 at 07:15 |
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COPYCAT!!!!
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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mystic fred
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 13 2006 Location: Londinium Status: Offline Points: 4252 |
Posted: October 13 2007 at 07:19 |
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agreed "Heaven and Hell" is a masterpiece, but is it an "essential masterpiece of progressive music" ...?
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Abstrakt
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 18 2005 Location: Soundgarden Status: Offline Points: 18292 |
Posted: October 13 2007 at 07:23 |
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24429 |
Posted: October 13 2007 at 07:26 |
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Steve, it is not... I think I made it clear enough in the other thread. It doesn-t make any sense to give great albums lower ratings just because they-re not prog. It would make much more sense to scrap the category altogether.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: October 13 2007 at 07:32 |
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I really can't believe you all.... albums don't 'deserve' any particular rating. IF so ..what is the point of reviewing... just award the damn album 5 stars.. because it is inluential or popular. sorry to see my example has been ignored. You can review a non prog album accurately and fairly based on it's prog quotient. That is fair to all... unless the only thing that matters.. is what the damn ranking is... |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Hercules
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 14 2007 Location: Near York UK Status: Offline Points: 7024 |
Posted: October 13 2007 at 07:54 |
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Much though I like Sabbath, their connection with prog is too tenuous to include them and nothing in Sean's biopic convinces me otherwise.
Add to that Iron Maiden, The Beatles, Radiohead, Messhugah, Led Zeppelin and The Who and this site is stretching the boundaries of what is prog, or even prog related much too far. Yet some bands with really progressive tendencies (Toto is an obvious candidate) are not here. |
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A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
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Black Sabbath inclusion
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Finnforest wrote:
