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fco. View Drop Down
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Points: 5 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: So you finally moved The Mars Volta..
    Posted: October 03 2007 at 18:30
It's good to see you somehow followed my advice after closing my thread.
 
You may be not that doomed afterall.
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Points: 65290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2007 at 18:47
 ^ except they weren't moved to ProgMetal as per your 'suggestion', they are in Heavy Prog, one of the three new categories replacing ArtRock... in fact, they weren't really moved at all, just given a more accurate place in the Art family
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Points: 11979 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2007 at 18:53
I'll put this thread were it should be... Big%20smile
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Points: 11979 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2007 at 18:55
Originally posted by fco. fco. wrote:

It's good to see you somehow followed my advice after closing my thread.
 
You may be not that doomed afterall.


we are the biggest and now considered the best and whilst we have no intention of being complacent I can assure you that we arent doomed...
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Points: 31471 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2007 at 18:56
Put TMV in Eclectic while you're at it, I think they fit better there than Heavy Prog actually.
RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on!
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Points: 24429 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2007 at 03:18
Originally posted by Bj-1 Bj-1 wrote:

Put TMV in Eclectic while you're at it, I think they fit better there than Heavy Prog actually.


While I think they both fit, I don't think giving a genre team orders is the best way to go about it.
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Points: 21206 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2007 at 03:38
Originally posted by Bj-1 Bj-1 wrote:

Put TMV in Eclectic while you're at it, I think they fit better there than Heavy Prog actually.


Clap

(not an order, just a comment)


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - October 04 2007 at 03:39
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Points: 322 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2007 at 03:42
For what it's worth I personally think eclectic suits them better too, sure stylistically they can be quite heavy but then again so can King Crimson.
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Points: 46301 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2007 at 03:49
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Bj-1 Bj-1 wrote:

Put TMV in Eclectic while you're at it, I think they fit better there than Heavy Prog actually.


Clap



really?! Confused
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Raff View Drop Down
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Points: 24429 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2007 at 03:51
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Bj-1 Bj-1 wrote:

Put TMV in Eclectic while you're at it, I think they fit better there than Heavy Prog actually.


Clap

(not an order, just a comment)


I belong to that generation of people who were taught to ask 'please' when they wanted something done. As to moving TMV, it depends on not one, but two teams - the HP and the Eclectic team. If all the parties involved (me, David, Rico and Logan) agree, then it will be done. Otherwise, they will stay where they are.
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Points: 46301 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2007 at 04:11
I'm more than ready to listen to Mars Volta, if this suggestion gets outside this "just for fun" context - the AR team, with all its branches, actually asked for feedback days after the split was done.

Succinctly said, I don't know Mars Volta at all, only knew (or imagined) that they're one of the pivotal bands in Heavy Modern Prog. I'm well ready to find out if that's true or needs an adjustment.
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fco. View Drop Down
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Points: 5 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2007 at 10:14
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

 ^ except they weren't moved to ProgMetal as per your 'suggestion', they are in Heavy Prog, one of the three new categories replacing ArtRock... in fact, they weren't really moved at all, just given a more accurate place in the Art family


 
But you got my point, which is what matters. Now, to the next task: I was reading the descriptions of your 3 new subgenres, and I realized you made a special subgenre for the Smashing Pumpkins, but oddly enough, that band wasn't there.
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Points: 24429 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2007 at 10:17
Originally posted by fco. fco. wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

 ^ except they weren't moved to ProgMetal as per your 'suggestion', they are in Heavy Prog, one of the three new categories replacing ArtRock... in fact, they weren't really moved at all, just given a more accurate place in the Art family


 
But you got my point, which is what matters. Now, to the next task: I was reading the descriptions of your 3 new subgenres, and I realized you made a special subgenre for the Smashing Pumpkins, but oddly enough, that band wasn't there.


Could you elaborate on your statement, please?Confused
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Points: 21206 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2007 at 10:39
Originally posted by Ghost Rider Ghost Rider wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Bj-1 Bj-1 wrote:

Put TMV in Eclectic while you're at it, I think they fit better there than Heavy Prog actually.


Clap

(not an order, just a comment)


I belong to that generation of people who were taught to ask 'please' when they wanted something done. As to moving TMV, it depends on not one, but two teams - the HP and the Eclectic team. If all the parties involved (me, David, Rico and Logan) agree, then it will be done. Otherwise, they will stay where they are.


I'm sorry, I just read his post and intuitively agreed that they fit much better in eclectic than in heavy. Think of it what you will ... you have the authority in these genres, and you're free to completely ignore my opinion, I'm really, really cool with it.Smile
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Points: 24429 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2007 at 10:45
I'm not ignoring anything.. I think Ricochet, who is responsible for the Eclectic team together with Logan, said quite clearly he doesn't know the band, and that he was going to get hold of some of their material in order to be able to judge. Besides, we have to listen to David's opinion too, since he was the founder of the HP team. As he lives on the other side of the world, we are not often online at the same time, which means having to wait sometimes for discussing things.

What I objected to was the tone of the request, not the thing in itself. Personally, I think they could fit in either subgenres, so I have NO preconceived opposition to the move. I am quite sure you members of the PMT would object in the same way if someone came up to you and said, "move X to another genre!".
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Points: 334 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2007 at 10:57
Let's not forget The Mars Volta aren't a full 100% Prog band to be recognized as that, instead they develop a hardcore punk root into a more experimental approach and yes they took some elements from Prog Rock from what I can see, but still not a pure Prog Rock band, they have diverse influences on their music, and that's mainly why they're considered among Prog sites, it's about their relation with Prog music, but not because they're a truly Prog band, IMO.
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Points: 24429 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2007 at 11:02
Originally posted by P.H.P. P.H.P. wrote:

Let's not forget The Mars Volta aren't a full 100% Prog band to be recognized as that, instead they develop a hardcore punk root into a more experimental approach and yes they took some elements from Prog Rock from what I can see, but still not a pure Prog Rock band, they have diverse influences on their music, and that's mainly why they're considered among Prog sites, it's about their relation with Prog music, but not because they're a truly Prog band, IMO.


Besides the fact I disagree  with what you said, I'd be interested to know how this relates to moving them to Eclectic. If you think that Eclectic means not 100% Prog, I'm afraid you should probably go and read the definition... BTW, the only not 100% Prog categories on this site are Proto-Prog and Prog-Related.
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P.H.P. View Drop Down
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Points: 334 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2007 at 11:14
Reading definitions won't change my mind about them, but what's that you don't agree with? the hardcore punk root? come on that's undeniable, the whole esthetic is a punk one.

it's just like with Porcupine Tree, I don't think any Prog fan could say they're 100% Prog Rock band, no one, because they simply don't play Prog Rock, they, again, are considerated because of their sound that is appealing to some Prog fans, but not because they're necessarily 100% Prog Rock band.

Prog-related should be fine for the Mars Volta, IMO.


Edited by P.H.P. - October 04 2007 at 11:21
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Points: 31471 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2007 at 11:18
Originally posted by Ghost Rider Ghost Rider wrote:

Originally posted by Bj-1 Bj-1 wrote:

Put TMV in Eclectic while you're at it, I think they fit better there than Heavy Prog actually.


While I think they both fit, I don't think giving a genre team orders is the best way to go about it.
 
 
Sorry, Raff. I didn't mean it as an order, I thought of it more as a suggestion.
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Raff View Drop Down
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Points: 24429 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2007 at 11:21
Originally posted by P.H.P. P.H.P. wrote:

Reading definitions won't change my mind about them, but what's that you don't agree with? the hardcore punk root? come on that's undeniable, the whole esthetic is a punk one.

it's just like with Porcupine Tree, I don't think any Prog fan could say they're 100% Prog Rock band, no one, because they simply don't play Prog Rock, they, again, are considerated because of their sound that is appealing to some Prog fans, but not because they're 100% Prog Rock band.

Prog-related should be fine for the Mars Volta, IMO.


I agree with the hardcore punk roots, because I happen to know Cedric and Omar were in a emo-hardcore band called At the Drive-In before forming TMV. However, I am at a loss to understand why that should prevent them from being a Prog band... Yes were influenced by Simon and Garfunkel at the beginning of their career - does it mean we have to move them to PR too? As to the punk aesthetics of TMV, I couldn't disagree more... They're the first to call themselves a prog band, unlike PT, who have always refused the tag.

Anyway, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree here... I'll post a link to this thread in the HP team thread, and see what my teammate has to say when he comes online later tonight.
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