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chamberry 
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 Posted: September 27 2007 at 23:28 |
Depends on what metalheads you're talking about. I know a lot of them who don't think most prog metal bands are really metal. Most of them only want something to headbang to and, sadly, neither Messhugah or Prog Metal can help them with that.  Perhaps that's why they dislike it. I'm talking about my own experience here, not trying to generalize or act serious. 
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rushfan4
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Posted: September 27 2007 at 23:30 |
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I mentioned this in a previous thread a couple of weeks ago, based on some recommendations on PA, I borrowed Catch 33 from my local library. I made it through about 5 of 6 songs before I had to turn it off. It was the most god awful thing I had ever heard. I love prog metal and I have no idea what that was but I certainly wouldn't call it prog metal.
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P.H.P.
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 01 2007
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Points: 334
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Posted: September 27 2007 at 23:32 |
 Majestic_Mayhem wrote:
Believe me they are metalheads and they do love metal. What I'm trying to say is they (metalheads I know) somehow reject and even hated (like you said) Meshuggah because of them being labelled and sounding as progressive.
I'm not talking about music haters as well. Are we even on the same page here?  |
There's not one single reason to be hating Progressive music even if you're a metalhead, unless like I said you're a music hater instead... I don't think metalheads could see Prog in Meshuggah's music, and I'm not talking about kids with iron maiden or metallica t-shirts, those guys probably don't even know what's Prog about, I'm talking about more open-minded metalheads, real music aprecciators, and it's not about the age, it's about your honest interest in music, I believe. 
Edited by P.H.P. - September 27 2007 at 23:32
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JayDee
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Posted: September 27 2007 at 23:35 |
ProgBagel wrote:
I chose genius...and note that they aren't my favorite band and probably not even in my top 30.
They brought something new to the genre and their music revolves heavily around rythm and heaviness.
The only downfall is that you have to be in one and only one mood to listen to them...'pissed off'.
Most prog-metal bands mention them as in influence...they are a very influential band.
To end this....they are an extremely unique band that blends simple bone crushing riffs, to very complex time signatures and has a Holdsworth infuenced guitarist (Fredrik Thordendal).
The vocals and heaviness can be a turn-off to anyone...I wouldn't blame them anyway. |
I listen to them even in my happiest moments.
Incidentally, Coprofago ( which is almost a cloned Meshuggah band ) mentioned Allan Holdsworth as their biggest influnce.
Attention Deficit, aJazz-Rock Fusion band led by Alex Skolnick ( Alex Skolnick Trio) mentioned them (Meshuggah) as one of the primary inspiration for the album The Idiot King.
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P.H.P.
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 01 2007
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Points: 334
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Posted: September 27 2007 at 23:38 |
rushfan4 wrote:
I mentioned this in a previous thread a couple of weeks ago, based on some recommendations on PA, I borrowed Catch 33 from my local library. I made it through about 5 of 6 songs before I had to turn it off. It was the most god awful thing I had ever heard. I love prog metal and I have no idea what that was but I certainly wouldn't call it prog metal. |
Me neither!
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ProgBagel
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: United States
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Points: 2819
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Posted: September 27 2007 at 23:40 |
Majestic_Mayhem wrote:
ProgBagel wrote:
I chose genius...and note that they aren't my favorite band and probably not even in my top 30. They brought something new to the genre and their music revolves heavily around rythm and heaviness. The only downfall is that you have to be in one and only one mood to listen to them...'pissed off'. Most prog-metal bands mention them as in influence...they are a very influential band. To end this....they are an extremely unique band that blends simple bone crushing riffs, to very complex time signatures and has a Holdsworth infuenced guitarist (Fredrik Thordendal). The vocals and heaviness can be a turn-off to anyone...I wouldn't blame them anyway. |
I listen to them even in my happiest moments.
Incidentally, Coprofago ( which is almost a cloned Meshuggah band ) mentioned Allan Holdsworth as their biggest influnce.
Attention Deficit, aJazz-Rock Fusion band led by Alex Skolnick ( Alex Skolnick Trio) mentioned them (Meshuggah) as one of the primary inspiration for the album The Idiot King. |
Yeah....come to think of it, I listened to them after I aced my calc test....I was damn happy.
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Proletariat
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Joined: March 30 2007
Location: United States
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Points: 1882
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Posted: September 27 2007 at 23:42 |
you should try not being so stuck up, my friends who wear iron maiden and metallica t-shirts know exactly what prog is, they like some of it (mainly Yes Rush KC Kansas and Pink Floyd) and the rest they dont find interesting at all, its just their taste that they like metal and not prog... after all you can mosh to metal, all you can do with prog is sit back and listen. Point is just because some one is a metalhead it dosn't mean they dont understand other music. mabe it is you who dosn't understand metal.
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who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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P.H.P.
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 01 2007
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Points: 334
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Posted: September 27 2007 at 23:50 |
ProgBagel wrote:
I chose genius...and note that they aren't my favorite band and probably not even in my top 30.
They brought something new to the genre and their music revolves heavily around rythm and heaviness.
The only downfall is that you have to be in one and only one mood to listen to them...'pissed off'.
Most prog-metal bands mention them as in influence...they are a very influential band.
To end this....they are an extremely unique band that blends simple bone crushing riffs, to very complex time signatures and has a Holdsworth infuenced guitarist (Fredrik Thordendal).
The vocals and heaviness can be a turn-off to anyone...I wouldn't blame them anyway. |
Bands or band members could say anything about their "influences", but it doesn't matter that much who are you influenced by, what really matters is the factual music you do. and I don't think "pissed off" is a good mood for listening music, you'd better just listen to some noise instead, IMO. and I don't think they're influential in Progressive metal bands, oh and if you're talking about Dream Theater and what they did, they even said it as a joke, so I wouldn't consider that as a serious influence on DT's stuff.
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JayDee
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Joined: September 07 2005
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Posted: September 27 2007 at 23:50 |
I'm 24, married and I have an Iron Maiden and Metallica shirt ( Killers and Flaming Skull respecteively )
I love metal as much as I love prog and do see progressive music in Meshuggah
--
It's my open mindedness that led me to believe and hear prog in what they do. Otherwise, i shoulve confined myself in listening to Yes, Genesis, King Crimson, Camel and other classic progressive bands.
Anyways, whatever floats our boat.
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Proletariat
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 30 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1882
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Posted: September 27 2007 at 23:52 |
P.H.P. wrote:
ProgBagel wrote:
I chose genius...and note that they aren't my favorite band and probably not even in my top 30.
They brought something new to the genre and their music revolves heavily around rythm and heaviness.
The only downfall is that you have to be in one and only one mood to listen to them...'pissed off'.
Most prog-metal bands mention them as in influence...they are a very influential band.
To end this....they are an extremely unique band that blends simple bone crushing riffs, to very complex time signatures and has a Holdsworth infuenced guitarist (Fredrik Thordendal).
The vocals and heaviness can be a turn-off to anyone...I wouldn't blame them anyway. |
Bands or band members could say anything about their "influences", but it doesn't matter that much who are you influenced by, what really matters is the factual music you do.
and I don't think "pissed off" is a good mood for listening music, you'd better just listen to some noise instead, IMO.
and I don't think they're influential in Progressive metal bands, oh and if you're talking about Dream Theater and what they did, they even said it as a joke, so I wouldn't consider that as a serious influence on DT's stuff.
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so i assume you throw on the merzbow or wolf eyes when your pissed off?
who cares what mood you listen to music in, after all sound is sound I like mine you like yours I say it's progressive and to tell the truth it will still be prog to me even if its not to you.
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who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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P.H.P.
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 01 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 334
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Posted: September 27 2007 at 23:57 |
Proletariat wrote:
you should try not being so stuck up, my friends who wear iron maiden and metallica t-shirts know exactly what prog is, they like some of it (mainly Yes Rush KC Kansas and Pink Floyd) and the rest they dont find interesting at all, its just their taste that they like metal and not prog... after all you can mosh to metal, all you can do with prog is sit back and listen. Point is just because some one is a metalhead it dosn't mean they dont understand other music. mabe it is you who dosn't understand metal. |
Yeah, sorry about that, but they asked me about what kind of metalhead I was talking about, not really generalizing, but that was a real life example... and I heartly disagree with that you said there, just take a look at 70's performances of any Prog ROCK band, and you'll see what I'm talking about. and me not understanding metal? once again, don't take me a Prog purist, because I'm not.
Edited by P.H.P. - September 27 2007 at 23:57
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rushfan4
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Joined: May 22 2007
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Posted: September 28 2007 at 00:00 |
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I haven't heard Merzbow yet. and quite frankly based on what I have heard on PA I am in no hurry to hear them. But when listening to Catch 33 I imagined that is what Merzbow must sound like, because this album was just noise to me.
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explodingjosh
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Joined: February 10 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 507
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Posted: September 28 2007 at 00:05 |
Majestic_Mayhem wrote:
P.H.P. wrote:
chamberry wrote:
They're a Prog Metal band and a good one at that. They mix the qualities of math rock with the attitude of metal.
I can see why you don't like them, but they're still prog (metal).
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Hm, I do really think that the conception of what Prog music is has changed for bad through years (mostly in the last 20 years), probably that's what happens with this band, because to me they don't sound Prog at all, they are just metal and let me tell you something...
among metalheads bands like these are rejected even hated, don't ask why, but metalheads must have their reasons to do so, think...
but don't worry, the original Prog conception is still there present, and it's expressed through Prog purists to keep the original Prog Rock conception alive, which I really aprecciate, but if you ask me, I must admit, I'm not a purist in Prog music, though my tastes are highly focused in Prog music...
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I know many people in the underground metal scene here in the Philippines who despise, reject and even hated Meshuggah coz of their association to the music we call progressive. |
Well f--- them!
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P.H.P.
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 01 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 334
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Posted: September 28 2007 at 00:05 |
Majestic_Mayhem wrote:
I'm 24, married and I have an Iron Maiden and Metallica shirt ( Killers and Flaming Skull respecteively )
I love metal as much as I love prog and do see progressive music in Meshuggah
--
It's my open mindedness that led me to believe and hear prog in what they do. Otherwise, i shoulve confined myself in listening to Yes, Genesis, King Crimson, Camel and other classic progressive bands.
Anyways, whatever floats our boat.
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Cheers for your love of Prog!  but it may not be reciprocal love with you and Prog, because he (Prog) knows you're thinking he is something that he's really not, hehe.
Edited by P.H.P. - September 28 2007 at 00:07
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JayDee
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Joined: September 07 2005
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Posted: September 28 2007 at 00:11 |
P.H.P. wrote:
Majestic_Mayhem wrote:
I'm 24, married and I have an Iron Maiden and Metallica shirt ( Killers and Flaming Skull respecteively )
I love metal as much as I love prog and do see progressive music in Meshuggah
--
It's my open mindedness that led me to believe and hear prog in what they do. Otherwise, i shoulve confined myself in listening to Yes, Genesis, King Crimson, Camel and other classic progressive bands.
Anyways, whatever floats our boat.
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Cheers for your love of Prog!
but it may not be reciprocal love with you and Prog, because he (Prog) knows you're thinking he is something that he's really not, hehe.
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Yeah, whatever.Like I said, whatever floats yer boat. 
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NotSoKoolAid
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 507
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Posted: September 28 2007 at 00:13 |
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There's not an option for me: Meshuggah is a band that is not related to prog - but that doesn't make them awful! Even at that I'm a little hesitant to call them "good" too.
Edited by NotSoKoolAid - September 28 2007 at 00:14
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P.H.P.
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 01 2007
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Points: 334
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Posted: September 28 2007 at 00:17 |
So far 6 people have voted for option 1: awful! so it's an option. maybe you could pick option 2, don't know...
Edited by P.H.P. - September 28 2007 at 00:18
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JayDee
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Posted: September 28 2007 at 00:17 |
explodingjosh wrote:
Majestic_Mayhem wrote:
P.H.P. wrote:
chamberry wrote:
They're a Prog Metal band and a good one at that. They mix the qualities of math rock with the attitude of metal.
I can see why you don't like them, but they're still prog (metal).
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Hm, I do really think that the conception of what Prog music is has changed for bad through years (mostly in the last 20 years), probably that's what happens with this band, because to me they don't sound Prog at all, they are just metal and let me tell you something...
among metalheads bands like these are rejected even hated, don't ask why, but metalheads must have their reasons to do so, think...
but don't worry, the original Prog conception is still there present, and it's expressed through Prog purists to keep the original Prog Rock conception alive, which I really aprecciate, but if you ask me, I must admit, I'm not a purist in Prog music, though my tastes are highly focused in Prog music...
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I know many people in the underground metal scene here in the Philippines who despise, reject and even hated Meshuggah coz of their association to the music we call progressive. |
Well f--- them!
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and feed them fish?
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Tapfret
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 12 2007
Location: Bryant, Wa
Status: Offline
Points: 8594
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Posted: September 28 2007 at 01:10 |
P.H.P. wrote:
Majestic_Mayhem wrote:
I'm 24, married and I have an Iron Maiden and Metallica shirt ( Killers and Flaming Skull respecteively )
I love metal as much as I love prog and do see progressive music in Meshuggah
--
It's my open mindedness that led me to believe and hear prog in what they do. Otherwise, i shoulve confined myself in listening to Yes, Genesis, King Crimson, Camel and other classic progressive bands.
Anyways, whatever floats our boat.
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Cheers for your love of Prog!
but it may not be reciprocal love with you and Prog, because he (Prog) knows you're thinking he is something that he's really not, hehe.
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It must be terribly convenient that prog is only what you think it is. But guess what, you don't get to decide what it is for anybody else. There is lots of prog that fits solidly in the prog definition that I don't like, but ...news flash, it does not stop being progressive because I don't like it. Saying Meshuggah isn't prog is like saying a school bus is no longer a school bus because it ran over you. You may not like that particular school bus anymore, but it's still a school bus.
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P.H.P.
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 01 2007
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Points: 334
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Posted: September 28 2007 at 01:36 |
Tapfret wrote:
It must be terribly convenient that prog is only what you think it is. But guess what, you don't get to decide what it is for anybody else. There is lots of prog that fits solidly in the prog definition that I don't like, but ...news flash, it does not stop being progressive because I don't like it. Saying Meshuggah isn't prog is like saying a school bus is no longer a school bus because it ran over you. You may not like that particular school bus anymore, but it's still a school bus.
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Don't quite see your point, but in order to be coherent with what is known as Prog music, we must follow pre-established lines of what Prog music has been, because if we don't, we would just not be coherent and we wouldn't be able to relate this with that, and in this case of Meshuggah I think it's pretty arbitrary to call them Prog, because they don't follow any line delimited by Prog music through decades, and finally there's no link with Prog music, and the statement of Meshuggah being Prog doesn't obbey any logic, ergo it's a weak and inconsistant argument, so it's not about what I think, it's about a fact that is.
Edited by P.H.P. - September 28 2007 at 01:46
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Meshuggah?
