Don't knock the (punk) rock! |
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yoel?
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 19 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 160 |
Topic: Don't knock the (punk) rock! Posted: September 29 2007 at 17:49 |
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lets remember the beloved cardiacs the inventors of 'prunk' theyre one of my favourite bands |
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debrewguy
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 30 2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3596 |
Posted: September 28 2007 at 15:44 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Good clarification. Any corporation worth its' salt will find a way to exploit any commercial opportunity that it sees. I just find that saying this band is better because they "mean" it, or that that group sucks 'cause they're poseurs amounts to judging the music based on its' perceived style over the actual content. I wouldn't care at all if it turned out that my favourite albums (Highway to Hell, Interview, Pure Pop for Now People, Abbey Road, Hemispheres ...etc ...) were expressly conceived , written,played & produced to sell as many copies as could be sold. Any more than I would change my mind about records or CDs that I cannot stand to listen to just because the band made it out of the most pure high minded artistic considerations. It really is what's in the grooves. Or as is the case today, what's in the 1 & 0 (digital codes). The overwhelming regurgitation of pop punk bands repeating ad nauseum the same chords, spit, snot, whiny lyrics or angry anti-something screeds shouldn't discourage a music fan from being able to find good pop punk groups. Just because you have 100 bands imitating Green Day, or a thousand new neo prog groups going over the same ground covered by Genesis 3 decades ago does not mean that Green Day or Genesis are suddenly unlistenable. You do stumble on a few that find their own way. |
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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Bryan
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 01 2004 Status: Offline Points: 3013 |
Posted: September 28 2007 at 14:35 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
I'm not saying that punk is somehow a more serious or more meaningful means of expression than other genres, or that somehow all punk bands are 100% true to their messages (hell I'm a black metal fan, the concept of saying something just for the sake of getting a reaction is definitely not foreign to me). I just find it a little strange to claim that a genre idealogically based around going against "the system" is dead because "the system" has created some half-assed offshoot of it to sell more records (pop-punk and emo) and started to ignore the real thing.
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debrewguy
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 30 2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3596 |
Posted: September 27 2007 at 13:12 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
DB answers - any "genre" that is more than a few minutes old will start to multiply in subsects in no time. That is the nature of music. The musician builds upon what he has heard. Sometimes to write sing & play the same old same old, sometimes to improve & add to the existing body of musical works, & rarely, very rarely to come up with a new type or style of music that has not really existed before. And as for arguing about what is, isn't was or wasn't real pop/punk/prog is just a fun way to while away the time. Are Green Day punk ? Mr Lydon believes not. But then he's compared the Ramones to Status Quo, the Clash to a good rock group, & the New York scene to a self-loving scene with romantic delusions of fanciful pseudo-poetic musings that they considered artsy enough to make them "important". And by now, any one just retreading the old ( and it is old) anti-anything lyrics isn't automatically to be credited with the "serious music" tag. The young "punkers" that I respect are those throwing certain uncomfortable truths into the faces of their fanbase - that they themselves have major things that they should change, or that they should quit their whinings especially when compared to the lives that others live in more demanding situations than most of the middle class poseurs have the luck to be born into. But telling your audience to get off their ass & do something about their own hypocrisies doesn't sell too well, now does it. Remeber straight edge ? Now that was a challenge to your audience. Remember Fugazi refusing to sign up with the Majors, or playing all age gigs only. That was a principled stance. But many punk bands' anti-commercial stance is just a cover 'cause they know they aren't going to get the Stadium tours & platinum albums, so they might as well play up their underdog status. And frankly, it no more of way to judge the musical merits than the 80s Hair metal bands' decadent lifestyles. Who cares ? Angus Young drinks tea & smokes cigarettes. That's all. Does that make him a poofster ? Sid Vicious killed himself on heroin. Does that make him a cultural icon ? Cobain shot himself saying he couldn't take the celebrity. Beethoven, the Clash, the Beatles, Minor Threat, you name it; any group or artist whose music is still held in high regard is because there is something in it that carries it beyond the scene or the charts of the moment. Not because of some high-falutin' "I know better than them" words hurled at spitting speed. So until you leave your teenage years, enjoy your illusion that music is "serious" art that has cultural impact. Then read about how Fashion supposedly does, too. Then realize that your favourite tunes still hold that special place in your heart 'cause they touched you in some way. And not because they were more Punk or Prog than group x or y. Edited by debrewguy - September 27 2007 at 13:26 |
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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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A B Negative
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 02 2006 Location: Methil Republic Status: Offline Points: 1594 |
Posted: September 27 2007 at 09:25 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
I recommend Ian Glasper's book The Day the Country Died if you're a fan of anarcho punk. It's full of interviews with the "stars" of the scene (Crass, Conflict etc) and many less well-known bands, most of whom were influenced by the mighty Crass (ideologically as well as musically).
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"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."
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Guests
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Posted: September 26 2007 at 21:43 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
i dun think punk did kill off prog...but i know emo pop has killed punk
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10617 |
Posted: September 21 2007 at 19:35 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Your right, the bands you mentioned are/were true anarchists who backed up their lyrics with their lifestyle. Something totally different from the Clash etc.
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Bryan
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 01 2004 Status: Offline Points: 3013 |
Posted: September 21 2007 at 18:04 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Punk was never meant to exist commercially though... if you look at the original punk scene beyond fake, mainstream bands like The Sex Pistols (who in my opinion were the first step towards the aforementioned soulless pop-punk bands) and The Ramones, bands like Crass, Conflict, Rudimentary Peni and Flux of Pink Indians were devoted to speaking out against big record labels and companies and actually trying to help trigger social and political change through their music. The spirit of punk will never die, as long as there are people who are frustrated with the world around them (for whatever reason they may have, political or otherwise) and want to express it through music regardless of whether they themselves are gifted musicians, THAT is what punk is. Sure the original punk "movement" being refered to in the quotes you mention is over, but so is the original prog movement, that doesn't make it a dead genre. Granted a lot of new punk has branched out and may not sound exactly like the bands responsible for originally getting the scene going, but evolving into new forms is a natural thing for a genre of music to do after an extended period of time. Sure if you listen to a band like Spazz or Municipal Waste it doesn't sound very much like The Sex Pistols, but if anything outside of that template is immediately disqualified from being "punk" then I would honestly say that I prefer the new, fake "psuedo-punk" to the genre's "real" bands. At the very least hardcore has to be acknwoledged as still being an active genre, and that is most definitely a subgenre of punk, so it's undeniable that to an extent punk does live on.
Edited by Bryan - September 21 2007 at 18:08 |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: September 18 2007 at 22:29 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Bryan I insist, pure Punk as it was born is dead, the lifestyle, the ideals, the Punk philosophy as it started is dead since 1979 more or less
as a fact I usually check Punk, Pop and other genres sites and all the new bands they mention have very little in common with the original Punk.
As a fact we also have a lot of local bands playing Beatles or Elvis music, even Punk, but that doesn't mean the genres are alive and healthy, iit's only reminiscences fronm the past.
At least hat's my opinion and te opinion of Punk band members (In my case local) with whom I talked, they even admit that the actual bands are anything but not Punk.
Even the punk sites talk in past tence:
Other sites talk about Skinheads music, Pop Punk, etc, but pure punk no longer exists at least not commercially.
Iván
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Bryan
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 01 2004 Status: Offline Points: 3013 |
Posted: September 18 2007 at 21:57 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
I just wanted to point out how utterly absurd the idea that "punk is dead" is. I live in a small to mid sized North American city with a surprisingly decent local scene, but still in no way shape or form one that is remarkable or special. There are about 6 or 7 local punk bands who all consist of people roughly my age and regularily play shows together (some have even recorded in studios and made CDs to sell at these shows), then on top of that there's a slightly bigger Crust Punk scene (featuring a couple of bands, Iskra and Leper, who are actually known throughout the international crust scene and are constantly touring, as are many of the other lesser known ones) and an equally large hardcore scene, plus there's also another group of punk bands all consisting of guys who are a bit older (most of them have families and kids) and have been playing punk since they were teenagers. Do you know how many prog bands there are in Victoria right now? None. And don't try to use the argument that these guys are unserious about their music... the guitarist from the aforementioned band Iskra has a masters degree in classical composition, and a lot of these guys play with a level of precision and at times even technicality that I think a lot of you would be pretty surprised with.
As for the notion that punk is dead because there are no "professional" bands out there... come on, are you really following the punk scene at all in an effort to even distinguish what's happening with it? Do you think some rabid punk fan who views that genre in the way that we view prog would have ever heard of Spock's Beard or Echolyn or whatever modern prog bands we're all listening to? Granted real punk has definitely fallen completely off the mainstream radar, but if there's enough of a scene for the guys I've met from these bands to be touring and releasing music (often completely by themselves, as pertaining to punk's DIY asthetic), not to mention bringing tons of great local punk bands from other cities over to ours for shows on a fairly regular basis, then obviously calling the genre "dead" is ridiculous. Less popular maybe, but who ever said that was a bad thing? |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: September 18 2007 at 21:39 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Get used too pal:
Here we come debate and discuss, that's the reason why a DISCUSSION FORUM exists.
Welcome BTW.
Iván Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - September 18 2007 at 21:44 |
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Leningrad
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 15 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 7991 |
Posted: September 18 2007 at 21:10 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
That was seriously the biggest collective 'tl;dr' ever.
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10617 |
Posted: September 18 2007 at 21:07 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Starship Trooper is 3 power chords G Eb C.
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BroSpence
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 05 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2614 |
Posted: September 18 2007 at 20:38 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Although I do not want to start another argument, you're right 3 power chords is not a song. However, 3 power chords can be used to create a song, or whatever other musical format you would like. |
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Lucent
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 18 2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 259 |
Posted: September 18 2007 at 18:01 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tl;dr 3 power chords is not a song. |
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BroSpence
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 05 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2614 |
Posted: September 18 2007 at 17:12 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Well I was going to reply and keep this argument going, but you keep ignoring good chunks of what I've written and mixing up certain parts with other things so this seems useless. Not to mention I don't really want to spend another hour replying. And I'm sure you feel likewise. I do however want to point out Darqdean's post about there being tons of punk bands. Its true there are, and many of them do work at local levels and do everything themselves. NO they aren't pros, but that doesn't matter. If a punk band was pro they would be called Toto and not the Sex Pistols. Aside from that its about the music isn't it? Not status. |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: September 15 2007 at 10:57 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Believe me Easy Money, sometimes it's a blessing not to know how your pupils ended.
Being Perú a small market of proffessionals, it's hard to see some of my most brillianjt students ending as ambulance chasers in the best of the cases or as cab drivers because there's no room for almost 50,000 lawyers in Lima.
Of course some end in very good positions, but hardly a few if not a handfull remembers their ideals of helping people who need, I don't ask them to work for free but at least to donate a couple hours a week (I do it on a church) to help abandoned mothers to receive something from the fathers of their children, being a Catholic Church I can't give advice about divorce in tjhose serssions because it's not accepted.
Iván
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10617 |
Posted: September 14 2007 at 23:59 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Edited by Easy Money - September 15 2007 at 00:01 |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: September 14 2007 at 23:20 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Darq, Easy Money: i get your pioints, i'm learning guitar (never too old) and found learning Punk is easier than almost any other genre, it's simple and you don't have to be bored repeating the same scales I did whjen learning piano several decades ago.
For a pupil it's very rewarding to play something you actually recognize, no matter how elemental it is, but the question is...How many of those kids really form a Proffesional or at least barely known Punk band?
Most of them emigrate to other genres.
BTW Guys: I'm impressed i didn't believed when I saw almost 100 bands were added in less than 2 months, it's a lot!!!!
Iván Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - September 14 2007 at 23:30 |
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10617 |
Posted: September 14 2007 at 22:48 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
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