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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Don't knock the (punk) rock!
    Posted: September 29 2007 at 17:49

lets remember the beloved cardiacs the inventors of 'prunk'

theyre one of my favourite bands

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2007 at 15:44
Originally posted by Bryan Bryan wrote:

I'm not saying that punk is somehow a more serious or more meaningful means of expression than other genres, or that somehow all punk bands are 100% true to their messages (hell I'm a black metal fan, the concept of saying something just for the sake of getting a reaction is definitely not foreign to me).  I just find it a little strange to claim that a genre idealogically based around going against "the system" is dead because "the system" has created some half-assed offshoot of it to sell more records (pop-punk and emo) and started to ignore the real thing.

Good clarification. Any corporation worth its' salt will find a way to exploit any commercial opportunity that it sees. I just find that saying this band is better because they "mean" it, or that that group sucks 'cause they're poseurs amounts to judging the music based on its' perceived style over the actual content.
I wouldn't care at all if it turned out that my favourite albums (Highway to Hell, Interview, Pure Pop for Now People, Abbey Road, Hemispheres ...etc ...) were expressly conceived , written,played & produced to sell as many copies as could be sold. Any more than I would change my mind about records or CDs that I cannot stand to listen to  just because the band made it out of the most pure high minded artistic considerations. It really is what's in the grooves. Or as is the case today, what's in the 1 & 0 (digital codes).
The overwhelming regurgitation of pop punk bands repeating ad nauseum the same chords, spit, snot, whiny lyrics or angry anti-something screeds shouldn't discourage a music fan from being able to find good pop punk groups. Just because you have 100 bands imitating Green Day, or a thousand new neo prog groups going over the same ground covered by Genesis 3 decades ago does not mean that Green Day or Genesis are suddenly unlistenable. You do stumble on a few that find their own way.
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2007 at 14:35
I'm not saying that punk is somehow a more serious or more meaningful means of expression than other genres, or that somehow all punk bands are 100% true to their messages (hell I'm a black metal fan, the concept of saying something just for the sake of getting a reaction is definitely not foreign to me).  I just find it a little strange to claim that a genre idealogically based around going against "the system" is dead because "the system" has created some half-assed offshoot of it to sell more records (pop-punk and emo) and started to ignore the real thing.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2007 at 13:12
Originally posted by Bryan Bryan wrote:

Punk was never meant to exist commercially though...

Debrewguy steps in - Yeah, after LPs from the MC5, the Stooges and other punk bands (and yes, they were punks, but the "scene" just hadn't been named yet), the labels couldn't see that why their lacklustre marketing efforts had any negative effect on consigning them to semi-obscurity despite the fans they drew to their shows.
if you look at the original punk scene beyond fake, mainstream bands like The Sex Pistols (who in my opinion were the first step towards the aforementioned soulless pop-punk bands - DB ???? I'm wondering what album you actually listened to, or worse, what chemicals you were on, "that dastardly Johnny Rotten, getting knifed in an alley 'cause he dissed the Queen, what a marketing scheme, eh") and The Ramones, bands like Crass, Conflict, Rudimentary Peni and Flux of Pink Indians were devoted to speaking out against big record labels and companies and actually trying to help trigger social and political change through their music.
Db tosses the firecracker in the ring - Lyrical topic matter is never an indication of any musician's importance. You can sing all the serious things you want. Political screeds do not instantly make for poetry or art. And speaking against the "man", well please see the MC5's history. And as far as trying to trigger social & political change through their music, that  is a nice theory. The reality is that society pushes these changes when the mainstream sees or believes the change is necessary or right. The Vietnam war was not halted by the hippies & all those 60s anti-war folkies ; it was the middle class , the parents who got sick of seeing their kids come back in body bags for no reason that made sense to them. Don't believe me, then go through rock's history & compare to world or national affairs. I'll be surprised if the musicians' topic matter made any difference to societal change.
Change comes about by community activism, voting, organizing political pressure groups. But most of all, getting people who believe the same things as you to vote, at the local, regional national whatever level, OK !

 The spirit of punk will never die, as long as there are people who are frustrated with the world around them (for whatever reason they may have, political or otherwise) and want to express it through music regardless of whether they themselves are gifted musicians, THAT is what punk is.
DB harrumphs - the spirit of punk died the second that it became a scene. Ask John Lydon. It started as being about being yourself, being original; then it quickly became about the uniform , the look, the attitude. Wanting to express one's frustrations with the world is not something reserved for punk. Never has been, never will be. Punk, nowadays is a neat moniker that a label, manager, or even a band can attach to themselves & their music to identify themselves to a receptive audience.

 Sure the original punk "movement" being refered to in the quotes you mention is over, but so is the original prog movement, that doesn't make it a dead genre.  Granted a lot of new punk has branched out and may not sound exactly like the bands responsible for originally getting the scene going, but evolving into new forms is a natural thing for a genre of music to do after an extended period of time.  Sure if you listen to a band like Spazz or Municipal Waste it doesn't sound very much like The Sex Pistols, but if anything outside of that template is immediately disqualified from being "punk" then I would honestly say that I prefer the new, fake "psuedo-punk" to the genre's "real" bands.  At the very least hardcore has to be acknwoledged as still being an active genre, and that is most definitely a subgenre of punk, so it's undeniable that to an extent punk does live on.


DB answers - any "genre" that is more than a few minutes old will start to multiply in subsects in no time. That is the nature of music. The musician builds upon what he has heard. Sometimes to write sing & play the same old same old, sometimes to improve & add to the existing body of musical works, & rarely, very rarely to come up with a new type or style of music that has not really existed before. And as for arguing about what is, isn't was or wasn't real pop/punk/prog is just a fun way to while away the time. Are Green Day punk ? Mr Lydon believes not. But then he's compared the Ramones to Status Quo, the Clash to a good rock group, & the New York scene to a self-loving scene with romantic delusions of fanciful pseudo-poetic musings that they considered artsy enough to make them "important". And by now, any one just retreading the old ( and it is old) anti-anything lyrics isn't automatically to be credited with the "serious music" tag.
The young "punkers" that I respect are those throwing certain uncomfortable truths into the faces of their fanbase - that they themselves have major things that they should change, or that they should quit their whinings especially when compared to the lives that others live in more demanding situations than most of the middle class poseurs have the luck to be born into. But telling your audience to get off their ass & do something about their own hypocrisies doesn't sell too well, now does it. Remeber straight edge ? Now that was a challenge to your audience. Remember Fugazi refusing to sign up with the Majors, or playing all age gigs only. That was a principled stance. But many punk bands' anti-commercial stance is just a cover 'cause they know they aren't going to get the Stadium tours & platinum albums, so they might as well play up their underdog status. And frankly, it no more of way to judge the musical merits than the 80s Hair metal bands' decadent lifestyles. Who cares ? Angus Young drinks tea & smokes cigarettes. That's all. Does that make him a poofster ? Sid Vicious killed himself on heroin. Does that make him a cultural icon ? Cobain shot himself saying he couldn't take the celebrity.
Beethoven, the Clash, the Beatles, Minor Threat, you name it; any group or artist whose music is still held in high regard is because there is something in it that carries it beyond the scene or the charts of the moment. Not because of some high-falutin' "I know better than them" words hurled at spitting speed.
So until you leave your teenage years, enjoy your illusion that music is "serious" art that has cultural impact. Then read about how Fashion supposedly does, too. Then realize that your favourite tunes still hold that special place in your heart 'cause they touched you in some way. And not because they were more Punk or Prog than group x or y.




Edited by debrewguy - September 27 2007 at 13:26
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2007 at 09:25
Originally posted by Bryan Bryan wrote:

Punk was never meant to exist commercially though... if you look at the original punk scene beyond fake, mainstream bands like The Sex Pistols (who in my opinion were the first step towards the aforementioned soulless pop-punk bands) and The Ramones, bands like Crass, Conflict, Rudimentary Peni and Flux of Pink Indians were devoted to speaking out against big record labels and companies and actually trying to help trigger social and political change through their music.  The spirit of punk will never die, as long as there are people who are frustrated with the world around them (for whatever reason they may have, political or otherwise) and want to express it through music regardless of whether they themselves are gifted musicians, THAT is what punk is.  Sure the original punk "movement" being refered to in the quotes you mention is over, but so is the original prog movement, that doesn't make it a dead genre.  Granted a lot of new punk has branched out and may not sound exactly like the bands responsible for originally getting the scene going, but evolving into new forms is a natural thing for a genre of music to do after an extended period of time.  Sure if you listen to a band like Spazz or Municipal Waste it doesn't sound very much like The Sex Pistols, but if anything outside of that template is immediately disqualified from being "punk" then I would honestly say that I prefer the new, fake "psuedo-punk" to the genre's "real" bands.  At the very least hardcore has to be acknwoledged as still being an active genre, and that is most definitely a subgenre of punk, so it's undeniable that to an extent punk does live on.
 
I recommend Ian Glasper's book The Day the Country Died if you're a fan of anarcho punk. It's full of interviews with the "stars" of the scene (Crass, Conflict etc) and many less well-known bands, most of whom were influenced by the mighty Crass (ideologically as well as musically).
"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2007 at 21:43
i dun think punk did kill off prog...but i know emo pop has killed punk
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 21 2007 at 19:35
Your right, the bands you mentioned are/were true anarchists who backed up their lyrics with their lifestyle. Something totally different from the Clash etc.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 21 2007 at 18:04
Punk was never meant to exist commercially though... if you look at the original punk scene beyond fake, mainstream bands like The Sex Pistols (who in my opinion were the first step towards the aforementioned soulless pop-punk bands) and The Ramones, bands like Crass, Conflict, Rudimentary Peni and Flux of Pink Indians were devoted to speaking out against big record labels and companies and actually trying to help trigger social and political change through their music.  The spirit of punk will never die, as long as there are people who are frustrated with the world around them (for whatever reason they may have, political or otherwise) and want to express it through music regardless of whether they themselves are gifted musicians, THAT is what punk is.  Sure the original punk "movement" being refered to in the quotes you mention is over, but so is the original prog movement, that doesn't make it a dead genre.  Granted a lot of new punk has branched out and may not sound exactly like the bands responsible for originally getting the scene going, but evolving into new forms is a natural thing for a genre of music to do after an extended period of time.  Sure if you listen to a band like Spazz or Municipal Waste it doesn't sound very much like The Sex Pistols, but if anything outside of that template is immediately disqualified from being "punk" then I would honestly say that I prefer the new, fake "psuedo-punk" to the genre's "real" bands.  At the very least hardcore has to be acknwoledged as still being an active genre, and that is most definitely a subgenre of punk, so it's undeniable that to an extent punk does live on.


Edited by Bryan - September 21 2007 at 18:08
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2007 at 22:29
Bryan I insist, pure Punk as it was born is dead, the lifestyle, the ideals, the Punk philosophy as it started is dead since 1979 more or less
 
as a fact I usually check Punk, Pop and other genres sites and all the new bands they mention have very little in common with the original Punk.
 
As a fact we also have a lot of local bands playing Beatles or Elvis music, even Punk, but that doesn't mean the genres are alive and healthy, iit's only reminiscences fronm the past.
 
At least hat's my opinion and te opinion of Punk band members (In my case local) with whom I talked, they even admit that the actual bands are anything but not Punk.
 
Even the punk sites talk in past tence:
 
Quote

But most of all, punk's legacy lies in its introduction of self employment and activism. It illustrated that anyone can do it themself, without reliance on the commercial media or the luxury of having financial abundance. Against the backdrop of mass consumer conformity, the punk rock movement made a statement of individuality that was heard worldwide.

 
Other sites talk about Skinheads music, Pop Punk, etc, but pure punk no longer exists at least not commercially.
 
Iván
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2007 at 21:57
I just wanted to point out how utterly absurd the idea that "punk is dead" is.  I live in a small to mid sized North American city with a surprisingly decent local scene, but still in no way shape or form one that is remarkable or special.  There are about 6 or 7 local punk bands who all consist of people roughly my age and regularily play shows together (some have even recorded in studios and made CDs to sell at these shows), then on top of that there's a slightly bigger Crust Punk scene (featuring a couple of bands, Iskra and Leper, who are actually known throughout the international crust scene and are constantly touring, as are many of the other lesser known ones) and an equally large hardcore scene, plus there's also another group of punk bands all consisting of guys who are a bit older (most of them have families and kids) and have been playing punk since they were teenagers.  Do you know how many prog bands there are in Victoria right now?  None.  And don't try to use the argument that these guys are unserious about their music... the guitarist from the aforementioned band Iskra has a masters degree in classical composition, and a lot of these guys play with a level of precision and at times even technicality that I think a lot of you would be pretty surprised with.

As for the notion that punk is dead because there are no "professional" bands out there... come on, are you really following the punk scene at all in an effort to even distinguish what's happening with it?  Do you think some rabid punk fan who views that genre in the way that we view prog would have ever heard of Spock's Beard or Echolyn or whatever modern prog bands we're all listening to?  Granted real punk has definitely fallen completely off the mainstream radar, but if there's enough of a scene for the guys I've met from these bands to be touring and releasing music (often completely by themselves, as pertaining to punk's DIY asthetic), not to mention bringing tons of great local punk bands from other cities over to ours for shows on a fairly regular basis, then obviously calling the genre "dead" is ridiculous.  Less popular maybe, but who ever said that was a bad thing?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2007 at 21:39
Originally posted by Lucent Lucent wrote:



Tl;dr



 
Get used too pal:
 
Quote
Poll Question: When you get a reaaaally long reply to one of your comments, you:
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
19 [73.08%]
2 [7.69%]
2 [7.69%]
3 [11.54%]
You have already voted in this poll
 
 
Here we come debate and discuss, that's the reason why a DISCUSSION FORUM exists.
 
Welcome BTW.
 
Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - September 18 2007 at 21:44
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2007 at 21:10
That was seriously the biggest collective 'tl;dr' ever.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2007 at 21:07
Starship Trooper is 3 power chords G Eb C.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2007 at 20:38
Originally posted by Lucent Lucent wrote:




Tl;dr


3 power chords is not a song.


Although I do not want to start another argument, you're right 3 power chords is not a song.  However, 3 power chords can be used to create a song, or whatever other musical format you would like.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2007 at 18:01
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by BroSpence BroSpence wrote:


Well it seems so obvious that these genres are still alive and kicking and that prog like all the other genres is a fashion that my no or false replies to your generalizations don't need backing up.  I could understand not replying if the entire post was just nos and one word answers, but that was not the case.

 

Why is it a fashion please? Because you say it?

 
Your only argument has been Prog is a fashion as ecery ghenre because some people like it.

 

Rap has actually been on the decline and emo groups and rock bands like Fall Out Boy, My Chemical Romance, Hinder, Nickleback, etc are seeing pretty good profits compared to other artists.  Reunion acts are also seeing big bucks and some are even talking about recording or already are recording new albums.  That being said the major labels as a whole are having big money problems and independent labels seem to be able to sign and release better artists, and shift their marketing much easier than the 3 mega labels can.

 

EMO and Rap are much younger than Prog, I don't know about the other bands you mention, their sales, popularity, etc.

 

Reunion concerts are always profitable, that means nothing, if ABBA who are as dead as Adam and Eve made a reunion tour, they would gather thousands of persons buying tickets and full stadiums, that doesn't mean they are alive, if they ever make a gig and start to release new material again I would believe they are alive, otherwise they are dead band 

Well, there is the Addicts, the Exploited, the Buzzcocks, the Damned, The Fall, U.K Subs, Dillinger Four, Sonic Youth, Richard Hell, Fear, Grinderman, Radio Birdman, X, Mission of Burma.

 

None of them is pure Punk

  • The Addicts are catalogued as Rock with absolutely no information
  • The Exploited are more metal than Punk
  • The Damned started as a Punk band, they went Goth and ended being a dance band, their last album in 2002 (5 years ago) was described by Rat Scabies (Member of the band) as a mix of Goth and Art Rock LOL
  • UK Subs are an exception, but not sure if they release new material since 1996
  • Dillinger Four are Pop band with influence of Punk, that's not even remotely close to the roots or esence of Punk
  • Sonic Youth are Indie, Alternative, anything but Punk
  • Richard Hell is a surviving Punk, but in more than a decade hasn't released anything new

 

I could check all of them but it's clear that a handfull of barely Punk artists and a couple of survivors don't keep a genre alive.

 

Yes that could be true, except it is still clearly identifiable and with identity.   I mean even some of the old disco artists are still touring, recording and producing.

 

Identifiable? So if they sound remotely influence by Punk means Punk is alive, please even the hardcore Punk fans admit the genre is dead and live remembering the Summer of 77.

 

Disco sold millions daily, today their sales are minimum and lets say 90% are old records bought by nostalgic fans.

 

Yes and the part you failed to include was by you.  I was giving my background information and experience to show that I'm not just pulling sh*t out of my ass as part of the evidence you asked for.  In fact here's the exact quote between you and I:

 

And I don't care for the background of any person, here all the members are the same for me, I care about a post no matter who wrote it, why should your case be something special.

 

If I don't care for your background or ever asked you for it, I care much less what you take from your a$$, that's a problem between you and your proctologist.


A genre is a style.  Every genre/style has its own characteristics, and mood.

 

No, Genre is a deternmined category of music with it's own characteristics and parameters, style is just the way a band or a musician performs the music,

 

A Prog band can have:

 

  • A vocalist that sings in the style of Axl Rose or Bruce Dickinson (Check Anton Roolaart, is here in the archives)
  • A keyboardist that plays in the style of Wakeman, or Tony Banks or Keith Emerson, all styles different, despite all are Prog.
  • A guitar player that performs in the style of Jimmy Hendrix

Etc, there's an evident difference between genre and style.

 

And you don't think Yes was more fashionable within the community than Atomic Rooster? Yes is even fashionable people not in the prog community.  Roundabout is constantly on the radio even more so than Owner of a Lonely Heart.  Also as I and you mentioned before: PINK FLOYD.  A band that has two of the best selling albums of all time.

 

Do you think that Yes is a fashion? Yes is a band that only performs, hardly could be a fashion, it was popular among a minority community, yes they were larger than bands like gabriel Genesis but this doesn’t make them a fashion.

 

Being liked by more people than the ones who like Atomic Rooster doesn’t make them a fashion either.

 

And Yes Roundabout is probably played more than Owner of a Lonely Heart because Prog is designed to last longer than POP.

 

Award shows barely mention anyone or anything aside from the 5 artists nominated.  You say Prog was never a fashion which you follow up by saying it was more popular in the 70s than 80s and 90s. 

 

Yes Prog was more popular among the limited Prog community of the 70's that's true, that doesn't make the genre a fashion, the fashions of the moments were massive like Punk, Disco or Pop.

 

You also have mentioned that thousands of bands send in material for inclusion on the boards.  If prog isn't a fashion and does not sell well why would a band send in material to a prog site if they were looking to make money? Wouldn't that mean they  would become less popular and make less money?

 

Playing a determined genre doesn't imply being a fashion, fashion has attached other characteristics that we mentioned previously, a fashion implies a way of living, a clothing, piercing, tatoos, etc, most genres have it, some don't.

 

You could identify most Punks in the 70's or a Disco fan, but the Prog fan could be anybody, there was no external distinctive sign to call it a fashion, you may say it's absurd, but that's part of the music today.

And magazines dedicate pages to trashing Paris Hilton and Lindsay Lohan and its all people talk about but that doesn't mean they're not a fashion.

 

Oh please!!!!!!!!!!!

 

They criticize, Britney, Paris Hilton or Loghan because a magazine with their faces sell millions (A magazine with the face of Greg lake won't sell too much, less with the face of Steve Hackett because he's hardly known outside the Prog community).

 

Prog was mostly ignored and criticized by a few critics because it was never profitable for them because their target auduiience worried about the latest fashion in music and never cared for Prog.

 

The same magazine that criticizes Paris today, supports their album tomorrow, the critic that attacks Prog hardly ever mentions it

 

Well a lot of genres are about the music.  And only superficial assholes really care how you look.  Superficial assholes plague all genres.

 
Punk, Metal, Disco, had their own paraphernalia and fashion attached and this doesn't make Metalheads superficial a$$holes just because they feel comfortable dressing how they want.

 

So if the bands wish to be a fashion and make a profit they go to a prog site for inclusion to do so even though you been saying this whole time that prog is not a fashion?

 

What can I say? No matter how much I talk you will always say that every genre is a fashion because you say it.

 
This bands want to be included in Prog Archives because this site is respected by the prog Community, this doesn’t make them a fashion.

 

They want to be recognized….Yes

They want to sell their albums….Yes

 

But they don’t want to be a simple fashion today and forgotten tomorrow, their main expectation (At least most of the prog bands) is in the music.

 

I have no doubt that progmetal has grown out of proportion and that there are a good amount of bands that aren't really related that are included. 

 

That's the only Prog Metal bands that I mentioned, the ones that without beiong Prog, want to be considered Prog Metal just because they have a keyboard and Prog Metal is selling well..

 

However, I mentioned groups that did/do not wish to be or try to be prog that used keyboards to address you saying that "every alternative and metal band with a keyboard wishes for inclusion on progarchives". 

 

That's a pleonasm, only a metaphoric figure of speech.

 

 You have not addressed my post, only given your opinion on progmetal's proportionis getting out of hand on this website.

 

Not on this website, we have a capable team that cares about whioch bands are added.

Rock and Roll (stray cats, Brian Setzer, Chris Isaak, Jerry Lee Lewis...)
Surf rock (Dick Dales, The Ventures, Los Straightjackets, The Sir Finks...)
Alt-rock (Wolf Parade, Radiohead, Doris Henson...)
Psychedelic rock (Acid Mothers Temple, Dungen, Ghost...)
blues rock (Allman Brothers Band, Buddy Guy, Jimmie Vaughan, Eric Clapton, The Rolling Stones...)
garage rock (The Mooney Suzuki, The Fleshtones, The Mummies...)
a capella (Da Vinci's Notebook, The Bobs, The Nylons, Rockapella...)
folk rock (Bob Dylan, Richard Thompson, Fairport Convention, Hot Tuna...)
pop rock/teen pop (Backstreet Boys, Britney Spears, Hanson, Paul McCartney...)
country rock (Eagles, Alabama, Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, Emmylou Harris, Levon
Helm...)
rockabilly (Sonny Burgess, Sleepy LaBeef, Reverend Horton Heat...)
singer/songwriter (Van Morrison, Neil Young, Bob Dylan, Joan Baez...)

 

 

Do you take this list seriously?

  • Country and Blues are independent genres from Rock, we're talking about Rock not other timeless genres.
  • Singer Songwriter is only a description, there can be Prog, Rock, Pop and even Folk Singer Songwriters, it's hardly a genre.

Quote Singer-songwriter is a term that refers to performers who write, compose, and sing their own material including lyrics, melodies, often providing the sole accompaniment to an entire composition or song. This form of artistic expression is very common among performers that are less well-known than pop artists. Some of these artists depend on word of mouth and extensive touring to garner a fan base and commonly appear at house concerts, coffee houses, folk clubs, and festivals.

  • A Capella is merely a style of singing without music, there can be A Cappella everywhere, but mostly in Gospel music which is not a Rock Genre.

Quote

Contemporary a cappella includes many vocal bands who add vocal percussion or beatboxing to create a pop/rock sound, in some cases very similar to bands with instruments. One such group is Rockapella, a preeminent example of contemporary A Cappella. There also remains a strong a cappella presence within Christian music, as some denominations do not allow instruments to be used during services.

Arrangements of popular music for small a cappella ensembles typically include one voice singing the lead melody, one singing a rhythmic bass line, and the remaining voices contributing chordal or polyphonic accompaniment.

A cappella can also describe the practice of using just the vocal track(s) from a multitrack, instrumental recording to be remixed or put onto vinyl records for DJs. Artists sometimes release the vocal tracks of their popular songs so that fans can remix them. One such example is the a cappella release of Jay-Z's Black Album, which Danger Mouse mixed with the Beatles' White Album to create The Grey Album.

Increased interest in modern a cappella (particularly collegiate a cappella) can be seen in the growth of awards such as the Contemporary A Cappella Recording Awards (overseen by the Contemporary A Cappella Society) and competitions such as the International Championship of Collegiate A Cappella for college groups and the Harmony Sweepstakes for all groups.

  • Folk Rock is just a blending of two genres as Folk Prog, in that case Folk Rock is a sub-genre of Folk and simultaneously a sub-genre of Rock.
  • Garage Rock has barely survived with a handful of representatives but according to all sources, died in 1970, there have been temporary revivals but nothing else.

Quote Garage rock is a raw form of rock and roll that was first popular in the United States and Canada from about 1963 to 1967. During the 1960s, it was not recognized as a separate music genre and had no specific name. In the early 1970s, some rock critics retroactively labelled it as punk rock. However, the music style was later referred to as garage rock or '60s Punk to avoid confusion with the music of late-1970s punk rock bands such as the SeX Pistols and The Clash.

  • Pop is simply an acronynm for popular music and it's  an individual genre indepenant from Rock, with it's own characteristiocs, like simple structure (ABBA mostly), short leght of songs, catchy lyrivcs, etc.

Quote

Pop is contemporary music and a common type of popular music (distinguished from classical or art music and from folk music]). The term popular music does not refer specifically to a single genre or sound, and its meaning is different depending on the time and place. Within popular music, "pop music" is often distinguished from other subgenres by stylistic traits such as a danceable rhythm or beat, simple melodies and a repeating structure. Pop song lyrics are often emotional, commonly relating to love, loss, emotion, or dancing. This often differs from rock, where political themes are more common.

Pop music may include elements of rock, hip hop, reggae, dance, R&B, jazz, electronic, and sometimes folk music and various other styles. For example, in the 1920s–50s pop music drew influence mainly from jazz, beginning in the 1950s from rock and R&B, and since the 1980s, from hip hop. The broad appeal of pop music is seen to distinguish it from more specific types of popular music, and pop music performers and recordings are among the best-selling and most widely known in many regions of the world.

 
  • Surf Rock was barely a genre, it’s a style a fashion mostly of the 60’s nothing more.

 

Where are the real popular Rock related  genres like Punk, New Wave or Disco?

 

BTW: Do you believe it's serious to catalogue The Ventures as a real Rock band?

 
Please, they made most of their carrer based in covers of  twist, country, pop, spy music, psychedelic, swamp, garage, TV themes, disco, reggae, soft rock and Latin music.

 

That's like saying Paul Mauriat and Ray Conniff are Rock artists

 

Well I figured since I had already mentioned several artists in those genres (in my posts) that still work today I didn't need to include a list of people from those genres that are so clearly alive.  Also they are rock sub-genres like prog, not moods, but are not exclusive from moods of the performers, listeners or sounds.  Anyways if you so desire I've included some examples of people in each genre that work or still work.

 

Most of the ones you mention are not related with Rock, but even in that case, a handfull of artists don't make a genre alive and growing.

 

You know how to discover if a genre is alive and growing?

 

Check the next post for space reasons

 

Iván





Tl;dr


3 power chords is not a song.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2007 at 17:12


Well I was going to reply and keep this argument going, but you keep ignoring good chunks of what I've written and mixing up certain parts with other things so this seems useless.  Not to mention I don't really want to spend another hour replying.  And I'm sure you feel likewise.

I do however want to point out Darqdean's post about there being tons of punk bands.  Its true there are, and many of them do work at local levels and do everything themselves.  NO they aren't pros, but that doesn't matter.  If a punk band was pro they would be called Toto and not the Sex Pistols.  Aside from that its about the music isn't it? Not status.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2007 at 10:57
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

I'm not sure where a lot of the kids I work with will end up, probably a lot will get distracted by career, marriage or some kind of criminal behaviour and never play in a real band. It has been nice to see some of my students move into music that is more creative such as System of a Down, who also write some decent lyrics too. It was also nice to find one of my older students from the early 90s on myspace recently with a band that was kind of punky, but very smart and creative too.
 
Believe me Easy Money, sometimes it's a blessing not to know how your pupils ended.
 
Being Perú a small market of proffessionals, it's hard to see some of my most brillianjt students ending as ambulance chasers in the best of the cases or as cab drivers because there's no room for almost 50,000 lawyers in Lima.
 
Of course some end in very good positions, but hardly a few if not a handfull remembers their ideals of helping people who need, I don't ask them to work for free but at least to donate a couple hours a week (I do it on a church) to help abandoned mothers to receive something from the fathers of their children, being a Catholic Church I can't give advice about divorce in tjhose serssions because it's not accepted.
 
Iván
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2007 at 23:59
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Darq, Easy Money: i get your pioints, i'm learning guitar (never too old) and found learning Punk is easier than almost any other genre, it's simple and you don't have to be bored repeating the same scales I did whjen learning piano several decades ago.

 

For a pupil it's very rewarding to play something you actually recognize, no matter how elemental it is, but the question is...How many of those kids really form a Proffesional or at least barely known Punk band?

 

Most of them emigrate to other genres.

 

BTW Guys: I'm impressed i didn't believed when I saw almost 100 bands were added in less than 2 months, it's a lot!!!!

 

Iván
I'm not sure where a lot of the kids I work with will end up, probably a lot will get distracted by career, marriage or some kind of criminal behaviour and never play in a real band. It has been nice to see some of my students move into music that is more creative such as System of a Down, who also write some decent lyrics too. It was also nice to find one of my older students from the early 90s on myspace recently with a band that was kind of punky, but very smart and creative too.

Edited by Easy Money - September 15 2007 at 00:01
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2007 at 23:20
Darq, Easy Money: i get your pioints, i'm learning guitar (never too old) and found learning Punk is easier than almost any other genre, it's simple and you don't have to be bored repeating the same scales I did whjen learning piano several decades ago.
 
For a pupil it's very rewarding to play something you actually recognize, no matter how elemental it is, but the question is...How many of those kids really form a Proffesional or at least barely known Punk band?
 
Most of them emigrate to other genres.
 
BTW Guys: I'm impressed i didn't believed when I saw almost 100 bands were added in less than 2 months, it's a lot!!!!
 
Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - September 14 2007 at 23:30
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2007 at 22:48
Originally posted by darqdean darqdean wrote:

^ sorry to interrupt guys, but Punk is very much alive, just not at a commercial level. I don't know about the rest of the world, but certainly in the UK in every school there will be two or three groups of 12 year old kids who get together and thrash out Punk songs in their dad's garage. Obviously as they get older and learn to play more than 4 chords their music gets more sophisticated and diverse, but they all seem to start as Punk.
I teach guitar to young teens in America, about 80% want to play punk or very similar to punk.
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