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Dim ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: April 17 2007 Location: Austin TX Status: Offline Points: 6890 |
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Whatever makes my listening experience more fun and challenging!
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WalterDigsTunes ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: September 11 2007 Location: SanDiegoTijuana Status: Offline Points: 4373 |
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If I have to pick between a late 80s/early 90s CD issue of an album or a late 90s/early 2000s reissue and if they are similarly priced, I'll go for the remastered version. If the price disparity is too large, I'll go for the most affordable one. I'd rather have two decent items than one excellent-sounding one.
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BroSpence ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: March 05 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2614 |
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Check out Kiss's "Hotter Than Hell" and Mountain's "Climbing!" remastered CD copies. They are absolutely hideous.. |
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Walker ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May 20 2005 Location: Atlanta Status: Offline Points: 824 |
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^ not really into to Kiss, but I have the remaster of Mountain Climbing. I never heard the original album, so I can't compare. Was something cut out, or do you think the sound is bad on that one?
Edited by Walker - September 24 2007 at 23:30 |
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Yorkie X ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July 04 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1049 |
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I have been remastering CDs myself using a program called
GoldWave - Audio Editing, Recording, Restoration, & Analysis Softwareit is amazing how good they sound some of these older prog recordingsCheck this relatively inexpensive program out and save your money on inferior remastered CDs I believe anybody with half a brain can polish a "turd" ![]() Edited by Yorkie X - September 25 2007 at 12:25 |
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Nightfly ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: August 01 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3659 |
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Whether I preffer a remastered cd or the original recording depends on how well the remaster is done. I have had some terrible cd's over the years which didn't stand up to the original vinyl version. One that imediately springs to mind is Rainbow's "Rising". Cozy Powell's drum intro on "Stargazer" was so low in the mix it totally ruined the track. It amazed me how such a glaringly obvious error could slip out. I was very reluctant to switch to cd from vinyl initially but I must admit that although vinyl can sound great I did get sick of crappy pressings with surface noise and I've certainly returned far more LP's than cd's over the years. With a good pressing though Vinyl can sound great. I've owned 3 versions of Deep Purple's "Made in Japan" and none of the cd versions can touch my original Vinyl copy.
As for a remasted cd against an original cd I would say in general most have been improvements, especially when the original release was rushed out to capitalize on the then new cd market probably using masters intended for Vinyl. Now some of them are abysmal!
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mystic fred ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 13 2006 Location: Londinium Status: Offline Points: 4252 |
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^ i know i've been telling them this for months...
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Jared ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May 06 2005 Location: Hereford, UK Status: Online Points: 20422 |
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I prefer Remastered, but not enough to go out and repurchase a CD I already have which hasn't been remastered; there's too much new, good music out there for spending your money that way....
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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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BroSpence ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: March 05 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2614 |
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I'm not sure if anything was cut out, but it sounds terrible in comparison. Its a bit "tinny" and the instruments are mixed oddly. I think they boosted the guitar and vox up way way over the bass and drums. The original vinyl release sounds much better in my opinion. |
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Dick Heath ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12818 |
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As said on a previous thread on this topic: it depends. Some remasters are cons, in particular to encourage the disc buyer dump the original remaster in favour of something claimed to be more state of the art, but in reality needs an oscilloscope and whole batch of electronics to measure performance improvements e.g. 24 bit/SACD variants, which the human ear and typical hifi equipment are incapable of differentiating.
However, there have been vinyl recordings that needed significant clean up, often due to overlayering to make the mastertape thereby increasing noise to signal ratios from tape hiss etc. The best example of that is Deep Purple's In Rock. I was also really impressed with Caravan's If I Could Do It All Over Again as the remaster. But Mahavishnu Orchestra's Birds Of Fire I believe has at least 3 versions of remaster ed CD issue, where complaints have been: can't tell the difference or the sound quality has been made worse.
Perhaps the question of remixing with remastering should also come into play here. The first CD issues of Genesis sounded very treble top heavy. In part this because to fit the analog signal onto 2 or 4 sides of vinyl, there had low and high frequency clipping losing high frequency treble especially - with the CD it this was back and cut through and often dominated the original intended mix. Not only the early Charisma Genesis recordings showed this, so did other's e.g. Jean Luc Ponty's Enigmatic Ocean. But also liberties were taken in remixing a few 70's recording to give an 80's audio feel - Free suffered from this, and more recently the Door's classics have been mucked about with 00's rhythmic sections.
For a lot of 60's and 70's recordings the old fashioned approach to stereo mixing still works well (unless heard on headphones), i.e. specific instruments/voices in one channel, others largely isolated into the other channel - which make channel shifting/sweeping effects the more dramatic, e.g. Edgar Winter's Frankenstein, several ELP tunes including Welcome Back. However, Ginger Baker's Toad solo on Fresh Cream isolated to one channel on some formats (as on the original vinyl stereo) doesn't feel aurally right - and can be uncomfortable when heard on headphones.
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salmacis ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Content Addition Joined: April 10 2005 Status: Offline Points: 3928 |
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Yes, I dislike remixes as a rule. The Free ones were absolutely ghastly; I remember we had a best of called 'All Right Now' and all the drum tracks sounded very '80s' all of a sudden and totally at odds with the timeless-sounding (IMHO) originals. I didn't buy the Doors ones either in fear of a similar mess.
I'm not an audiophile, but some remasters are not necessarily always all that wonderful. Certainly, the Sanctuary Uriah Heep ones are very hit and miss; 'Return To Fantasy' in particular is a real mess, especially on 'Prima Donna' where there's drop-out at the start where there shouldn't be, and the instrumental section of 'Devil's Daughter' unaccountably gets quieter! The new Genesis ones I can't say I was impressed by the way they sounded on 2 channel; I find the new one of 'And Then There Were Three' unlistenable, actually. The others weren't quite so bad, IMHO, though some of them unaccountably had musical bits disappeared; the backing vocals on 'Your Own Special Way' in the climax were gone (the 'of holding my hand...' bit) and a guitar sting from 'Misunderstanding' similarly vanished! I bought them for the 5.1 versions and the various footage...
I remember the very first pressing of the 'Deep Purple In Rock' remastered CD had a flaw; it jumped all over the place on 'Living Wreck' and Blackmore's guitar burnout on 'Hard Lovin' Man' cut off suddenly! I actually found this out to my detriment when buying the remaster for the first time 5 years ago, yet I read that all these copies should have been withdrawn years before that!!
Some of the audiophiles were not pleased by the VDGG remasters, but I thought those were excellent.
Edited by salmacis - September 26 2007 at 12:11 |
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Zargus ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May 08 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 3491 |
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I heard a vinyl LP of "In Rock" by Deep Purple one time and it was a real dissapointment the sound was flat and simply lame no action, comperede to my remastered CD wich has much beter bass and dynamic. So i prefer CDs by far but i gues it depend what you grow up with. Another bad thing with LPs is they are so BIG! one whonder where you put thos things?
![]() Edited by Zargus - September 26 2007 at 13:11 |
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Dean ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
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They may be big, but they are also quite thin,
So in any given width, you can squeeze a lot in.
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What?
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jimidom ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August 02 2007 Location: Houston, TX USA Status: Offline Points: 570 |
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Yeah, except for those 180g Classic Records reissues and 200g MFSL half speeds in my collection
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"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." - HST
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The Miracle ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: May 29 2005 Location: hell Status: Offline Points: 28427 |
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Leaving vinyl out of this, I greatly prefer remastered CD's. They usually sound better and surely not worse(except perhaps a few rare exceptions, but I'd know before buying), and the package is always miles better, plus the often excellent bonus tracks. I'm really into special/limited editions as well
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ten years after ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: September 07 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1008 |
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Improving technical quality does not necesarily improve artistic quality. Indeed, it can introduce an element of sterility. Also, enjoyment of music involves many inputs that are nothing to do with musical perfection. As a teenager some of my albums acquired a few audible scratches from being played to death. I've long since lost all of those albums but listening now to the CD i often find i miss a familiar click or hiss . This is, of course, nostalgia rather than musical appreciation but so what..
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Yorkie X ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July 04 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1049 |
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Just add EQ normally add treble and bass (pending) next step is to apply the dreaded compression but only of the high peaks nothing else best not to over do this next maximise volume to just below where it starts to clip ...and Bobs your uncle 90% of standard original recordings are improved greatly not much point fooling around with recordings made later than about 1990 in my opinion they are normally done with CD in mind a good result should lift the gain of the recording by about 2 - 4 DB and without any added clipping !!! but also make it very dynamic and rich in texture for older recordings tape hiss is noticable there are tools for removing this but expect to change sounds like cymbals ect ... I just accept the hiss ... you should hear how well the first Pavlov's Dog CD I did today come up .. its fantastic apart from the original tape hiss which isn't bad and certainly no worse that it was before I started working on it but I want to keep the personality there just build on it. could easily remove the hiss but if you know anything about engineering every action seems to have a reaction ( like not hearing any cymbals) so I just left it.
![]() Edited by Yorkie X - September 27 2007 at 12:18 |
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Tapfret ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 12 2007 Location: Bryant, Wa Status: Offline Points: 8625 |
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Speak for yourself. Yessongs was the first Yes album I heard and I was not pleased with the boxy sound of the studio albums I heard later. So I will take a slightly dirty sound if the alternative is to sacrifice rawness and power.
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Easy Money ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10686 |
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Glad you like it, I just thought it lacked bass, rough sound is OK with me.
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Philip ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: June 13 2007 Location: Porto, Portugal Status: Offline Points: 413 |
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The original recordings most of the times.
See "Days of Future Passed" by Moody Blues and all the cd remastered versions of this great album.
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