A change of location needed?

Micky is right from wherever you see it, PHP. The crossover team supposes to have expert guys on the matter (and I personally don't suppose that; I consider it as a fact), and you're far from being an expert in a music area you don't aprecciate and, according to your posts, also don't listen to enough to give strong arguments.

Simply, you cannot get Radiohead maybe as the average prog band uses to do with you and then you say they aren't prog at all. And that's valid and arguably, I also doubt their progressiveness, but the arguments you gave simply reveal your lack of knowledge about the band in question, like comparing them with Coldplay. Obviously, we all have different ways to get the prog and say how pure it is or not..... In other words, it's you alone against the crossover team, despite I'm with you in some points.

You've demonstrated a great knowledge in a huge lot of prog areas, but this time I think you're in a small boat.

micky wrote: I'll answer this while I toss my chicken and cook my salad.  Many 'modern' bands are but retreads of the same old sh*t from the 70's. In that  Radiohead and TMV.. though differently stylisticly are quite prog.  It may not be your daddy's prog.. .but it is prog all the same. damn....  my ice cream is boiling.. gotta run

I just wouldn't call Prog as you did.

And I must admit again that Radiohead and TMV (or MTV) both have something in their music, something that possibly makes them attractive for you, but I wouldn't say they're proper Prog bands, they're just Rock/pop bands that are certainly better than the average rock bands of today, ergo you're not forced to say they're Prog bands.

P.H.P. wrote: micky wrote: oh really.....  how about maybe the ultimate MODERN prog band well, no, if you mean by "modern", bands that don't have too much to say about their Prog Rock roots, and instead have all the alternative, depressive, annoying, noisy, even punky rooted stuff, well probably they're simply not Prog Rock then.

I'll answer this while I toss my chicken and cook my salad.

 Many 'modern' bands are but retreads of the same old sh*t from the 70's. In that  Radiohead and TMV.. though differently stylisticly are quite prog.  It may not be your daddy's prog.. .but it is prog all the same.

damn....  my ice cream is boiling.. gotta run

P.H.P. wrote: darqdean wrote: Exaggeration and unwarranted generalisations also look very bad because they give the impression that you are applying the same criteria for judging Radiohead's music as you do for those who oppose your view of their music. Nobody is pretending Radiohead is the ultimate Prog band, nor is anybody saying that all of their music is progressive - The '100% progressive' statement in the Crossover Prog definition does not mean 100% of the entire discography. I can't count a single one "100% progressive" album by Radiohead, and aww, I have listened several in the last years, shame on me, I should have listened some more of good ol' Prog Rock instead, haha.

That's mainly why I think they must be among prog relateds

darqdean wrote: Exaggeration and unwarranted generalisations also look very bad because they give the impression that you are applying the same criteria for judging Radiohead's music as you do for those who oppose your view of their music. Nobody is pretending Radiohead is the ultimate Prog band, nor is anybody saying that all of their music is progressive - The '100% progressive' statement in the Crossover Prog definition does not mean 100% of the entire discography.

I can't count a single one "100% progressive" album by Radiohead, and aww, I have listened several in the last years, shame on me, I should have listened some more of good ol' Prog Rock instead, haha.

P.H.P. wrote: sircosick wrote: Well ok, you're backing the real topic now and you know I agree with your first statement about Radiohead progressiveness......... The only controversial thing you posted that I (and others) doubted is that weird comparison you did BUT...... Who did pretend Radiohead to be the ultimate prog band?????????? Again with the exaggerations Well, yes I did that to make it sound more direct, and also because maybe some people could really think like that, and that would be very bad.

oh really.....  how about maybe the ultimate MODERN prog band

darqdean wrote: P.H.P. wrote: Let's just take a look to the first line: "Crossover Prog contains progressive rock music that, though 100% progressive..." I don't think that fits Radiohead's music at all Because if that what you say is right, then what's Britpop, Alternative Rock?? let me remember during the 90's that's how they were seen, and that's how they should remain, just don't pretend Radiohead are something that they are not, because if Radiohead are Prog, Coldplay and Oasis are Prog too and everything will be fine... Why? It does not follow that a band should be labelled by the genre they were grouped in when they first came to prominance; if they go through several musical shifts through-out their career to the extent that their third, fourth, fifth and sixth ablums bear no musical resemblence to their intial recordings. You could make the same observation about any number of bands within the Prog Archives...   Talking the converse view, should we boot out any band who makes the reverse trip from 100% prog to 100% pop? No - of course not. Radiohead are evaluated and assessed on their Progressive/Art Rock albums - not on their Brit-Pop beginnings.

Exactly right.
Think of a lot of the classic prog bands. If you go by their more recent work (and many from the 80s) they're prog related albums at best. Well, same goes for Radiohead's earlier work. It was a phase. It passed. Since 1997 they have released nothing but progressive albums. They qualify as a 100% prog band.
I personally feel that Kid A and Amnesiac are post-rock albums, but given their spectrum of work, Crossover is best.

Well ok, you're backing the real topic now and you know I agree with your first statement about Radiohead progressiveness......... The only controversial thing you posted that I (and others) doubted is that weird comparison you did

BUT...... Who did pretend Radiohead to be the ultimate prog band?????????? Again with the exaggerations

darqdean wrote: P.H.P. wrote: Let's just take a look to the first line: "Crossover Prog contains progressive rock music that, though 100% progressive..." I don't think that fits Radiohead's music at all Because if that what you say is right, then what's Britpop, Alternative Rock?? let me remember during the 90's that's how they were seen, and that's how they should remain, just don't pretend Radiohead are something that they are not, because if Radiohead are Prog, Coldplay and Oasis are Prog too and everything will be fine... Why? It does not follow that a band should be labelled by the genre they were grouped in when they first came to prominance; if they go through several musical shifts through-out their career to the extent that their third, fourth, fifth and sixth ablums bear no musical resemblence to their intial recordings. You could make the same observation about any number of bands within the Prog Archives...   Talking the converse view, should we boot out any band who makes the reverse trip from 100% prog to 100% pop? No - of course not. Radiohead are evaluated and assessed on their Progressive/Art Rock albums - not on their Brit-Pop beginnings.

they should tattoo that post on the ass of every newbie that joins this site. and maybe more than a few long time posters as well


Edited by micky - September 25 2007 at 16:45

P.H.P. wrote: Let's just take a look to the first line: "Crossover Prog contains progressive rock music that, though 100% progressive..." I don't think that fits Radiohead's music at all Because if that what you say is right, then what's Britpop, Alternative Rock?? let me remember during the 90's that's how they were seen, and that's how they should remain, just don't pretend Radiohead are something that they are not, because if Radiohead are Prog, Coldplay and Oasis are Prog too and everything will be fine...

Wow ... remind me to never take anything you say seriously again. Even on Pablo Honey Radiohead were like 10x more progressive than anything Oasis ever did - and don't get me started about Coldplay either. And of course Radiohead didn't stop there - it's their least progressive album.