Suicide

Having just posted umpteenth answers to more than a few posts here, I thought I'd be better off to put it in one (hopefully) brief missive.
One - If you have never been clinically diagnosed as depressed, you don't know, you don't understand what it is. Period. This is not an insult to your intelligence, education, life experience, whatever. This is just not something you can learn about from books, O.K. .
Two - Thinking about it may very well be one thing. But, without knowing how far "gone" you are, it is better to talk about it with a medical professional. Better safe than sorry. You might just be blue. But if you aren't , you do not want to find that out after the hammer hits the bullet head.
Three - Telling someone to "snap out of it" is about the stupidest thing you can say. How low of an opinion can you hold of a loved one to believe that they would think otherwise if they could. Like, hey, your leg is broken, but if you don't worry about it, you'll see it goes away ... RIGHT !
Four - Do some people overdo it ? Damn Right ! But do you really want to take that chance ???? THink ABout it ... Do You ? This may literally be a life or death question with no second chances.
Five - If you think it is a sign of weakness, you are an insecure uninformed ignorant idiot. If you ever become ill enough to start thinking about suicide, I hope your family & friends know better than you do.
Six - If & when you do come through an episode of severe depression, you can believe one thing  - family & friends are more important than your health. Screw that old saying about having your health being the most important thing in life.
Seven - Do not believe that your cherished defenses (music, family, friends, work, sports, hobbies, wealth, health, etc ...) are a guarantee against it. This is not something that ANYBODY chooses to experience. Laziness, weakness, or any other demeaning description you may think describes those afflicted simply shows your lack of understanding, and assuredly your actual real life experience of such an emotion. Initially, thinking so will not make you a bad unfeeling friend or family member. Misinformation, prejudices, & just plain ignorance die hard. Just remember whether your best friend has reason to give you any doubts about what many figure is "supposed" illness.
Eight - Hope, dear God/Allah/Vishnu/whatever deity or god or none of the above that you never ever end up afflicted with this mental illness. If you have a bias against it, substitute another illness - cancer, AIDS, Ebola, take your pick. No one chooses what can possibly end up a deadly malady
Nine - If you have read this so far ... thank you for taking the time. Visit sites such as NIMH, or other government/medical (valid, not commercial) sites that can offer a wealth of information on this & other mental illnesses. They are the last frontier, medically speaking, as to what the general public wants to talk about or even think about.

To quote IQ's first song on their debut - "I'm Still Alive!"
And I intend to die of old age. My wife, daughter, my parents, my family & friends are the obstacle that Suicide cannot overcome. They mean that much to me, as I do to them. And if you ever get to the point where you don't believe that, find someone who will help you understand it. It could be a matter of life and death!

Still, Debrewguy put it best

debrewguy wrote: Ya know, sometimes Zappa had his head up his ass when it came to putting his beliefs out there. In this case here, he could probably see his esophagus. OF course, he died of lung cancer. Not bad for a non-druggie. If you don't count nicotine as a drug, which apparently his self righteous ass didn't think so.

Edited by Peter - September 24 2007 at 08:45

Peter wrote: debrewguy wrote: Ya know, sometimes Zappa had his head up his ass when it came to putting his beliefs out there. In this case here, he could probably see his esophagus. OF course, he died of lung cancer. Not bad for a non-druggie. If you don't count nicotine as a drug, which apparently his self righteous ass didn't think so.    Please don't take that "Suicide Chump" post too seriously, D. -- I just thought it was time for some "tough love" in this thread. really, (I think Frank  had a similar purpose: to make suicide seem less "attractive" -- not an act of "bravery," but rather "the sport of chumps."   My admittedly unclear point was that people should seriously consider the great harm suicide does to the family and friends of the victim. Suicide is an act of ultimate violence. The devastating after-effects last lifetimes, and generations.   I did not want to seem to "encourage" suicide by joining in the "yeah, me too" gloom-fest we've got going on here. A lot of our members are at the "perfect' age, demographic-wise, to attempt such an act. (Some, in fact, seem to spend every possible free moment alone with their computers, and their "virtual" personality and friendships. This can't be entirely healthy.)   Your later post as to the impossibility of those who've never suffered clinical depression truly understanding that horrible, debilitating illness was right on, BTW.   I take this subject seriously, but it's rather a pronounced downer here on our music forum, and perhaps does little good -- my fear was that it might even do harm.

Re : Zappa. Although it is well known that Frankie boy sometimes sang or said the unspeakable at times so as to shock people out of their complacency, there are times when others might wish that he gave more thought to achieving that goal in a more intelligent way. Mind you, for a guy who put out like, what, 8000 albums, he probably didn't have the knack for self-editing that genuises should show, i.e. if it's come out of me, that means it's ready to record.
Good point on the downer aspect. One "harder than it seems" lesson to learn is giving one's self over to positive thoughts. It's too easy to go negative. And to use a metaphor - it's easier to dig a hole with a backhoe, than to fill it with a spoon. Recognize the dark pathway, re-direct yourself to good road, and know that you can bring yourself back towards a sunnier view of life.
I used to tell people this little axiom when they asked me how I was doing. My apologies to those who don't speak french, but I couldn't come up with a fitting translation.
Quand ca va, ca va; pi quand ca va pas, ca vient a passer.
Here's my try -
When things are going well, they go well. When they don't, I know that they do get better.


Edited by debrewguy - September 24 2007 at 13:53

If you don't believe the religion crap, death is just nothingness, darkness, silence, peace. How's that worse than life? Nothing can be worse than life, really... I'm just in it for fun

R o V e R wrote: <FONT size=7>No

In other words "Yes, but I'm too much of a dillusional optimist or some sort of religious person who's faith strictly forbids suicide to admit it"

seems like PA members have Suicidal Tendencies... 

Everybody knows the worst band ever is U2

Sure it has, but the way I sometimes see it is that my life ended at 26.  Since I'm already dead, in a way, killing myself, or contemplating it, would be kind of pointless, sort of.  I find that thought strangely comforting.   Finish the job... Finish the job.  Oops, a little relapse there.

The daughter of one of my wife's friends recently committed suicide.  I would never want to give people that kind of pain no matter how hard my life can be.  I don't think it could be worse than the suffering that taking my life would inflict on my family.

And if you don't like your life, try to change it.  Attend an orgy, travel, do something different. Do something fun  and adventurous.  Challenge yourself.  For me, it was heavy exercise that most helped me... Hiking, rock-climbing, mountain biking, skiing, getting into nature and getting au naturelle.

Or if one is hell-bent on self-destruction, calm down, then plan to put your life on the line is some meaningful way for some good cause... don't throw it away, try to do good with it. Think those survival instincts would kick in pretty fast given the right situation.  If you became, say, a field medic in some war-ravaged zone -- when you're risking your life to save others -- or dish out soup in some bad part of town.  Actually, helping others is often the best way to help oneself.  Do something worthwhile and charitable.  Might build confidence and get one out of thinking so much about oneself.  Or do scary, adventurous things... Not stupid risky. Safe, but fun is best, actually.  Take climbing lessons or whatever... If you're a vegetarian, go ahead and eat that burger and fries.  Sure it's high in cholesterol and cruel to animals, but live a little.  You're living on borrowed time anyway, so go ahead and eat that bag of chips and smother it in mayonnaise.  Of course an unhealthy body is an unhappy body, but a little won't kill you... not that you'd mind if it did... If it did quickly that is, rather than slowly helping your arteries to become clogged... a slow death by mayo.  Or death by chocolate... Willie Wonka's chocolate factory style.

All that said, of course it depends on the situation and the person.  For some pharmaceutical drugs are needed, for others listening to Genesis or Marillion while having relations with a sunflower or a sardine is enough.  For me it's jazzy or funky music and a tall glass of wine (not chilled wine else my tackle gets hypothermia). 

Oh well, this a useless post.  Now I'm depressed.

Thanks.

In that case, I can only hope your friend is doing alright now.  I'm worried.

The Genesis and Marillion comments could be better.  I regret that I didn't say haddock in a kilt (and in Fishnet stockings for fun) instead of sardine for my Fishy reference (then Marillion fans might have taken the bait hook...er, line and sinker...).
Just say no to being fishbait.  Keep that peter to yourself.  When it says don't feed the fish, don't be feedin' it to the fish (as I once did as I thought the sign at the aquarium said erotic rather than exotic fish... Darned blowfish).

Umm, this is just an exercise in writing a thoroughly useless post (thread self-combusts).