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Vibrationbaby View Drop Down

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Posted: September 20 2007 at 10:56

Prog.Sylvie wrote:

We don't want stopping people to express their opinions, but maybe sometimes we are fed up to read too much negative things on this board.

The problem with Vibration, is that he likes nothing and he likes to bash every shows, every festivals, Montreal and so on... Enough of this. This member should be shutted up and banned. We don't need this constant negativness on this forum. It's very sad, because everytime that I want to post something about a show or an event happening in Montreal, Vibration don't forget to post something negative about it and likes to bash everything even if usually he does not attend the event or the show...

Maybe it would be a good idea to get rid of him...

OH NO ! Now she wants to prosecute me. Death sentence. Medieval torture.Firing squad. String my body up in the village square for all to see. I guess she hasn`t read the bio I wrote for Montréal band Octobre on this very site. Sylv check it out and feel stupid. I`ve also written a few other bios and am currently working on another one. I`ve also written over 150 reviews since Feb 2004 when I joined as one of the original core members. I don`t see any reviews by prog sylvie. At least I make contributions to progarchives with the precious little time I have to devote to it so maybe we should just get rid of you Smile

.

Edited by Vibrationbaby - September 20 2007 at 10:57

Kid-A

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Posted: September 20 2007 at 11:08

^ So what?, doesn't entitle you to act like an arsehole.

Edited by Kid-A - September 20 2007 at 11:11

Vibrationbaby View Drop Down

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Posted: September 20 2007 at 11:21

Kid-A wrote:

^ So what?, doesn't entitle you to act like an arsehole.

I`m not acting like an arsehole look what she wrote. I was merely defending myself. These forums are not like the reality TV series Survivor where you get voted off the island.

Edited by Vibrationbaby - September 20 2007 at 11:24

jimmy_row

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Posted: September 20 2007 at 12:02

salmacis wrote:

'We Can't Dance' is too long, IMHO. As a single album it would have been much better, as pretty much every one of those ballads on there is well below par.

I don't feel embarassed about admitting to liking some of the 3 man era albums. The irony of people saying how 'uncool' these 80s albums are is precious; even Genesis themselves admit they've hardly ever been fashionable at any point in their careers and prog as a genre is not cool, either. But do I care? Not a bit of it. 'Embarassed', 'guilty pleasures' and 'uncool' are terms I take no notice of!!

I will say though, Phil just couldn't sing 'Dancing With The Moonlit Knight', IMHO. Some of the Gabriel songs I thought he was brilliant with ('Carpet Crawlers', 'In The Cage' and yes, 'Supper's Ready') but this was not one of them.

I agree about In the Cage and especially Carpet Crawlers...and to be honest, I think Phil did an excellent job with Supper's Ready, he almost outdoes Pete for "weirdness" on Willow Farm. In addition, song like I Know What I Like and Cinema Show sound almost as if they were made for Phil's singing style around 76/77.

Heptade

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Posted: September 20 2007 at 13:02

BTW, I saw both Genesis and Rush (last night) in Toronto recently, and though I don't support high ticket prices (won't pay 'em), the Genesis show was much more elaborate, longer and just plain better. Of course, at the Rush show I had the worst seats in the house (still 60 bucks!) and didn't actually hear any bass guitar all night. Thanks, Air Canada Centre.

Anyway, the Rush show was fine, but Genesis was very entertaining. Perhaps entertaining's not enough for some, I guess...

The world keeps spinning, people keep sinning
And all the rest is just bullsh*t
-Steve Kilbey

Vibrationbaby View Drop Down

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Posted: September 20 2007 at 14:50

It`s good to be back on track. To be quite honest I was playing a bit of a devil`s advocate when I started this thread just to get some discussion going. Also, I did enjoy myself at the show even though Genesis aren`t my favourite band. The sound in the big O that night was definitely flawed. They did play a good mix from the early years and the later Dead

years. Personally I prefer more intimate concert settings and think that the stage show was really blown out of proportion. A concert should be about the music first and foremost and this concert, in my opinion, was just too "showy".

Edited by Vibrationbaby - September 20 2007 at 14:52

Melomaniac View Drop Down

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Posted: September 20 2007 at 14:53

Vibrationbaby wrote:

It`s good to be back on track. To be quite honest I was playing a bit of a devil`s advocate when I started this thread just to get some discussion going. Also, I did enjoy myself at the show even though Genesis aren`t my favourite band. The sound in the big O that night was definitely flawed. They did play a good mix from the early years and the later Dead

I agree about the flawed sound, but the Olympic Stadium being what it is... I was fortunate enough to be sitting right in front of the stage right column of speakers, so I didn't get too much echo, but it was weird to see people in the back clapping later than we did !!!

I also would have prefered a smaller setting that could have fitted in the Bell Centre and have two concerts there.

"One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio

Melomaniac View Drop Down

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Posted: September 20 2007 at 14:56

Heptade wrote:

BTW, I saw both Genesis and Rush (last night) in Toronto recently, and though I don't support high ticket prices (won't pay 'em), the Genesis show was much more elaborate, longer and just plain better. Of course, at the Rush show I had the worst seats in the house (still 60 bucks!) and didn't actually hear any bass guitar all night. Thanks, Air Canada Centre.

Anyway, the Rush show was fine, but Genesis was very entertaining. Perhaps entertaining's not enough for some, I guess...

True enough, the bass was too low in the mix, but at least they fixed Lifeson's sound compared to all the other Rush shows I've seen. Before, if you didn' have plugs, Lifeson's notes had so much reverb and delay in them that the notes just rolled over one another ; this time he was the one who had the best sound... I also think the concert was the most guitar oriented concert I've seen from them, and it's about bloody time !

"One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio

Prog.Sylvie View Drop Down

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Posted: September 20 2007 at 15:30

We all agree with that; the sound would have been better at the Bell Center but on the other hand, it was a nice event to go back to this stadium. Genesis was never my favorite bands (ELP,PF and Yes at first...), but it was a real pleasure to see them playing old and new things, and to see Phil Collins in great shape and with a lot of energy.

C'est la vie

NutterAlert View Drop Down

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Posted: September 20 2007 at 15:32

^what a negative posting

Proud to be an un-banned member since 2005

Prog.Sylvie View Drop Down

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Posted: September 20 2007 at 16:01

This is not negative at all; Genesis was good even at the Olympic Stadium . Even my husband who did not want to go enjoyed this concert. Nothing negative there, au contraire...

About Genesis, I used to listen to this group in the seventies ( 1973 -1978), and after that we used to dance to this music.

C'est la vie

debrewguy

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Posted: September 20 2007 at 21:43

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Melomaniac wrote:

To all you Collins bashers : just get out there and do better than him, if he is so sh*tty, or just shut the hell up once and for all, your narrow vision gets very, very tiresome.

Melomaniac, that's not our job, we are not proffesional musicians, sutrely we would do it worst, but this forum is to express your opinions, love or hate Phil Collins Genesis, in my case I hate it, that's why i wouldn't had gone even if I had the tickets for free, because I know I won't like the show.

BTW: I'm tired of listening people saying:

If you don't like Rap you are narrow minded
If you don't like Hip Hop, you are narrow minded
If you don't like Phil Collins Genesis, you are narrow minded.

WHY???????

Debrewguy wonders - Where in this thread has anyone posted anything of the sort ?

Aren't we allowed to have our own taste and like or dislike what we want?
DB again wonders - it is one thing to like & dislike what you want. It is another to go rampaging over the wall railing madly about how sacraligious or blasphemous a group's changing direction is. You may remember the general opinion that developed after one (actually many more than one) too many anti-Phil or peter vs phil threads & polls. To summarize - enough ! We get it that you hold a deep deep dislike (an understatement if ever there was one) for all things Phil, or rather post Peter. Please, we ask you , move on. You must have other things to occupy your time.

We won't shut up, we are here to express our opinions, even if you or me don't like it, i read people bashing Kansas because of one song, I gave my opinion and arguments but never asked the person to shut up, or told them "Go out there and try to sing better than Steve Walsh", because that's absurd, most of the members here are not musicians and even less get paid fortunes to do that..
DB retorts - Ah, but the question is, if you hate Genesis post Peter, why would you bother going to their concert only to dismiss it. I don't care for cricket, but I wouldn't go to a game only to denigrate the game or its' fans.

It's even worst in the case of ELP, there were lots of guys bashing them, but never read anybody saying "You are narrow minded if you don't like Love Beach"...Well most of the few who got angry and replied with hostility were banned.
DB - and by that you mean ...

So learn to live with it, people are here to express their opinion and more likely the vast majority of the members here don't like 3 men Genesis.
DB asks - so the use of the "majority" opinion is acceptable when it suits our purposes, eh. Answer why the overwhelming albums sales of the Banks/Collins/Rutherford era group means nada to those who prefer Gabriel fans ?

BTWI II: As you notice, this is my first post here, because I also believe it's absurd to go to a concert of a band you don't like because the tickets are for free. I wouldn't had even worried to write here if it wasn't for this quote and the one saying "God-damned purists", I'm a purist and oproud of it.
DB - Do you mean elitist ? What is pure about preferring one era over another ? You do know that Peter wanted out for some time before he left. If you knew the exact time, would you be more of a purist by insisting that only the albums released before that were good ?

If I want to see Pop I go to see a Pop band not Genesis.
DB inquires - so then you agree that Genesis is not a pop group ... LOL

Iván

Ivan, the main problem as I see it, is that the Gabrielites are just happy to see an opportunity to vent once more their anger over the perceived treason that one of their favourite groups has committed. It makes one wonder if someone has confiscated their copy of Foxtrot or worse, banned any pre-75 Genesis album from being listened to. I prefer by a long shot the Bon Scott era AC/DC. I bear no grudge against folks or friends who prefer Brian Johnson. But then, (and I have used this comment before) I have a life. So to post an entry on a thread concerning a concert that I went to knowing that I would hate it from the get go, simply indicates that I should find better reasons to go out drinking. Like maybe, going to a country music club, or better, the local pub, where anyone can access the juke box & annoy me personally, eh.
IF Vibrationbaby had gone there with an open-mind, expecting to enjoy the concert, and found it wanting, that would be fair comment. But why bother criticizing something you don't like to begin with. You're not reviewing the actual concert, just repeating a previously held & well known view. So the review is not about the event, but rather just a selfish way of attracting attention to oneself.
Now let's hope he doesn't waste his time attending other entertainment events that he despises. 'Cause he could likely use some alone time to think & write about things he enjoys & would like to share with others.

"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.

debrewguy

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Posted: September 20 2007 at 21:46

Vibrationbaby wrote:

Prog.Sylvie wrote:

We don't want stopping people to express their opinions, but maybe sometimes we are fed up to read too much negative things on this board.

Maybe it would be a good idea to get rid of him...

VB baby, emphasis on the baby part, when you get a chance, change your diapers, call your local AA group & read your posts when you're sober. Your behaviour reminds me of another high ranking member of this site who I eventually found out had his/her fingers rapped on occasion for their "opinions".

"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: September 20 2007 at 23:33

debrewguy wrote:

[Debrewguy wonders - Where in this thread has anyone posted anything of the sort ?

Yes, as a fact that was the only reason why I entered to this thread tha ihad ignored since the start.

To all you Collins bashers : just get out there and do better than him, if he is so sh*tty, or just shut the hell up once and for all, your narrow vision gets very, very tiresome.

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=41735&PN=1

Already after my post Melomaniac has accepted as a gentleman he was rude, I don't get why you start with the issue again

DB again wonders - it is one thing to like & dislike what you want. It is another to go rampaging over the wall railing madly about how sacraligious or blasphemous a group's changing direction is. You may remember the general opinion that developed after one (actually many more than one) too many anti-Phil or peter vs phil threads & polls. To summarize - enough ! We get it that you hold a deep deep dislike (an understatement if ever there was one) for all things Phil, or rather post Peter. Please, we ask you , move on. You must have other things to occupy your time.

I haven't done this in this thread, it's no secret i don't like 3 men Genesis, but I never wrote a single post about this tour in this thread, only replied to a determined post that i considered aggressive.

But for no reason I would stop posting my opinios, if you don't like them, don't read them.

DB retorts - Ah, but the question is, if you hate Genesis post Peter, why would you bother going to their concert only to dismiss it. I don't care for cricket, but I wouldn't go to a game only to denigrate the game or its' fans.

If you read my posts I wrote this three times before you are doing it:

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

.

Iván

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Just to finish, I agree with the point that this thread seems absurd, because if you don’t like a band, you just don’t go, it’s a bit unfair to go to a concert you know you won’t like and then criticize it………If you knew you were not going to like it, just don’t go, or if you go, you shouldn’t start the thread because you already expected what you got for free.

Iván

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

So no, that's not for me, I wouldn't go for free, but again I believe it's absurd to go to a concert you know before that you won't like.

Iván

So again, I don't understand why you quote me unless you have not been followuing the thread, because WHAT YOU HAVE SAID IN THIS POST, I SAID IT THREE TIMES BEFORE YOU.

DB - and by that you mean ...

That usually when you mention you don't like Rap Hip Hop or Collins Genesis, the "narrow minded" qualification appears, but when people writes against a Prog band, nobody except the fans say something, but never have read the arrow minded phrase.

DB asks - so the use of the "majority" opinion is acceptable when it suits our purposes, eh. Answer why the overwhelming albums sales of the Banks/Collins/Rutherford era group means nada to those who prefer Gabriel fans ?

I don't say if it's acceptable or not, but it's a fact that in a prog site, most people will like Gabriel era more, not saying is better or worst, but if you write in a Prog Forum, you must get used to this dislike for Collins 3 men era, and I know it because i participate in several Prog Forums and it happens all the time.

DB - Do you mean elitist ? What is pure about preferring one era over another ? You do know that Peter wanted out for some time before he left. If you knew the exact time, would you be more of a purist by insisting that only the albums released before that were good ?

For God's sake read the quote you are replying to:

I wrote:

BTWI II: As you notice, this is my first post here, because I also believe it's absurd to go to a concert of a band you don't like because the tickets are for free. I wouldn't had even worried to write here if it wasn't for this quote and the one saying "God-damned purists", I'm a purist and proud of it.

I was supporting the position of those who believe it's unfair to go to a concert even when they know they will hate iot and then dare to criticize.

And yes i'm a purist, not an elitist, if I buy albums from a Prog band I expect prog not of..If I buy an album from a Pop band I expect pop not Jazz.

What's wrong with that?

DB inquires - so then you agree that Genesis is not a pop group ... LOL

I admit Genesis was a prog band during the Gabriel era and the first two Collins albums, after that they turned into a Pop band, I don't admiit they are not POP, I'm saying I wouldn't go to see them, because I expect something different of Genesis than the Pop they did during the tree men era.

Iván

In first place, i find the terms Gabrielites and Phiistines absurd and childish, I'm, a Genesis fan of the Prog era, that includes two Collins albums.

Yes, i don't like the way Genesis took after W&W, and I will say it as many times as I'm asked, I omitted this thread because i thought it was absurd until somebody used a phrase I found aggressive.

I prefer by a long shot the Bon Scott era AC/DC. I bear no grudge against folks or friends who prefer Brian Johnson. But then, (and I have used this comment before) I have a life.

And???? Have i wrote something against people who like Collins era, i respect their taste even when I don't share it.

So to post an entry on a thread concerning a concert that I went to knowing that I would hate it from the get go, simply indicates that I should find better reasons to go out drinking. Like maybe, going to a country music club, or better, the local pub, where anyone can access the juke box & annoy me personally, eh.

I have proved that I said that three times, and i even used the drinking example including my local Pub (which BTW plays only clasic Rock):

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Phil Collins came here and I preferred staying in a pub because I don’t like his music,

Iván

So please, read the whole thread before replying, I said the exact things you wanted to here before you even joined the thread

IF Vibrationbaby had gone there with an open-mind, expecting to enjoy the concert, and found it wanting, that would be fair comment. But why bother criticizing something you don't like to begin with. You're not reviewing the actual concert, just repeating a previously held & well known view. So the review is not about the event, but rather just a selfish way of attracting attention to oneself.

I said this same thing three times in this thread and quoted myself, please read all the thread before replying.

Now let's hope he doesn't waste his time attending other entertainment events that he despises. 'Cause he could likely use some alone time to think & write about things he enjoys & would like to share with others.

I don't agree completely with this statement, because we should feel free to talk about the things we don't like as well as the things we like.

Of course and for the fourth time in this thread I don't agree with a person who goes to a concert he knows he won't like just to criticize it later.

Iván
[/QUOTE]

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - September 21 2007 at 02:28

White Shadow View Drop Down

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Posted: September 20 2007 at 23:45

Lucent wrote:

Notice how Phil Collins brutally raped Genesis's sound.

Anyone care to disagree?

notice how you don't know what you're talking about because they wrote as a team. And also take a good notice how Phil Collins is 100X better of a musician than you ever will be.

Care to disagree?

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White Shadow View Drop Down

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Posted: September 20 2007 at 23:49

Teh_Slippermenz wrote:

activetopics wrote:

Sell-outs. :(

Wrong. I wonder why people keep accusing them of being sell-outs. They DID NOT "sell-out". It was, as Phil Collins has said, just them growing up, listening to different things. Tony Banks is most likely the true controller of Genesis. If he didn't like what Phil wrote, he would have told him so, and Tony Banks would have decided what genre they would be in after Steve Hackett left. Steve's departure probably influenced them greatly in their change in sound, as I'm sure they felt that Steve's technique was one of the driving forces of their days with Peter Gabriel. (Anthony Phillips worked much in the same way I would suppose, not to mention he was the band's main songwriter. Anthony's departure meant they lost their creative drive, so they decided to try and take up the songwriting theirselves)

Anyway, I suppose my point is, they didn't sell out, they decided they were tired of progressive rock and wanted to do something different, and so they went with pop. And also: remember the planned Duke suite for the "Duke" album? Well, they scrapped it because they were worried that it would be compared to SUPPER'S READY. See, they wanted to get AWAY from The Musical Box, The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, etc. etc. etc. So they changed their sound.

Yes!!!!!!! Someone who has intelligence!!!!!!!! It was Tony's band. What Tony wanted Tony got. Why doesn't anybody else realize this. I agree on your other statements as well.

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White Shadow View Drop Down

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Posted: September 21 2007 at 00:04

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Melomaniac wrote:

To all you Collins bashers : just get out there and do better than him, if he is so sh*tty, or just shut the hell up once and for all, your narrow vision gets very, very tiresome.

BTW: I'm tired of listening people saying:

If you don't like Rap you are narrow minded
If you don't like Hip Hop, you are narrow minded
If you don't like Phil Collins Genesis, you are narrow minded.

WHY???????

Aren't we allowed to have our own taste and like or dislike what we want?

So learn to live with it, people are here to express their opinion and more likely the vast majority of the members here don't like 3 men Genesis.

If I want to see Pop I go to see a Pop band not Genesis.

Iván

I agree that you like what you like and there's nothing wrong with not liking something. However, and I'm not a psychologist, but I think you want to hate Phil Collins' music. You can't stand that they went in another direction and therefore, want to condemn it as crap. I know you're older than me and have been listening to prog longer than me, but I wish you would take two hours of your time. Clear your mind of "Supper's Ready" and "Firth of Fifth" and just listen to some later stuff. Forget there ever was a band "Genesis", just listen. There are some really good songs, particularly on "Duke" and "ATTWT". After that it is more specific songs I like rather than albums but even so, I think it is worth it. I doubt this will change your perspective and you might not even read this, but I think you're missing out. BTW, the tour was unbelievable. There was more prog than pop and the pop was good pop, even though you stated you don't like their pop. C'mon, "Ripples", "Carpet Crawlers", "Los Endos" was mind-blowing, "Firth of Fifth", "I Know What I Like", "Cinema Show", "Afterglow", and "In the Cage". Also, as a sidenote, I have to say I'm ashamed to be from Boston (US). Everybody left right in the middle of the Carpet Crawlers because Phil said it was the last song. At least 15-20% of the people were pouring out and my friends and I were pissed.

Edited by White Shadow - September 21 2007 at 00:10

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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: September 21 2007 at 00:24

White Shadow wrote:

I agree that you like what you like and there's nothing wrong with not liking something.

There we agree.

However, and I'm not a psychologist, but I think you want to hate Phil Collins' music. You can't stand that they went in another direction and therefore, want to condemn it as crap.

I don't want to hate anything, I wopuld be stupid to limit the albums i have to listen, believe me, i bought ATTW3 and Duke the nmorning they were released without listening them....Do you think I bought the albums because I wanted to hate them?

I was school student who lived on tips of my parents, so it would be silly to buy an album wanting to hate it.

It's simply that I know what I like.

BTW: I haven't used the word crap.

I know you're older than me and have been listening to prog longer than me, but I wish you would take two hours of your time. Clear your mind of "Supper's Ready" and "Firth of Fifth" and just listen to some later stuff. Forget there ever was a band "Genesis", just listen. There are some really good songs, particularly on "Duke" and "ATTWT".

Do you believe I haven't dione this being a Genesis fan?

Do you believe i wasn't emotioned when some friends told me that EWe Can't dance was a return to the roorts or rthat Mama was a Prog masterpiece?

I got them all and listened carefully the albums and i don't like them, as simple as that.

After that it is more specific songs I like rather than albums but even so, I think it is worth it. I doubt this will change your perspective and you might not even read this, but I think you're missing out.

I already did it and my opinion haven't changed, i don't like 3 men Genesis and i don't think i hjave lost anything, by the contrary i could expend my money in albums of new bands that i love.

BTW, the tour was unbelievable. There was more prog than pop and the pop was good pop, even though you stated you don't like their pop. C'mon, "Ripples", "Carpet Crawlers", "Los Endos" was mind-blowing, "Firth of Fifth", "I Know What I Like", "Cinema Show", "Afterglow", and "In the Cage".

I don't like Phil Collins voice or Daryl Stuermer doing Hackett parts. i heard In the Cage by Phil and simply hate it, IMO it lacks of emotion, he was never abble to transmit the claustrophobia and the fear Rael felt when trapped in the cage.

Firth of Fifth without Hackett doing his solo is not worth IMHO, never liked i Know what i Like, not even by Peter.

Afterglow or Ripples are not among my favorites.

The instrumental section of Cinnema Show is incredible, or at least it was in Second's Out, but Phil's voice kills it for me.

So you got your reply, I'm familiar with all Genesis eras, I don't use to talk about something I haven't listened carefully.

Also, as a sidenote, I have to say I'm ashamed to be from Boston (US). Everybody left right in the middle of the Carpet Crawlers because Phil said it was the last song. At least 15-20% of the people were pouring out and my friends and I were pissed.

Well, I left the Invisible Touch Tour concert when i heard the theme song, so I don't judge people who don't like Carpet Crawlers, it's just a matter of taste.

Cheers

Iván

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Posted: September 21 2007 at 00:36

Poor Ivan !

The joys of communication !

As always, this kind of conversation gets out of hand, but as I read it now, I find it hilarious !!!

"One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: September 21 2007 at 02:13

Melomaniac wrote:

Poor Ivan !

The joys of communication !

As always, this kind of conversation gets out of hand, but as I read it now, I find it hilarious !!!

No problem Melomaniac, when somebody replies to WHAT I HAVE SAID there is no problem.

But when somebody replies you without even having the care to read the thread or your post, this really piss me.

Seems like Debrewguy just wanted tro make his post and used my post repeating everything I had said several times before and without even looking how the thread evolved.

Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - September 21 2007 at 02:17