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el böthy 
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 Posted: September 19 2007 at 19:04 |
 Nightfly wrote:
I can understand them getting lumped in with the Death Metal bands on the early albums although far superior to what usually goes as Death Metal.
I think quite a bit of their stuff is more technical than you give them credit for though, especially on Ghost Reveries.
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I think complex is more like it, technical doesn´t sound like it has anything to do with Opeth. Complex fits them better.
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"You want me to play what, Robert?"
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stonebeard
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Posted: September 19 2007 at 19:13 |
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In a spectrum of death metal, I hear Opeth are definitely on the more complex end. But just because they don't necessarily fit the sterotype of their genre does not mean they're beyond categorization. I'll admit I'm no expert on death metal, and I basically only listen to Opeth from all possible death metal bands, but they seem to be basically not-too-complexx prog metal with death vocals and some acoustic guitar songs, basically. That sums them up pretty well, don't you think?
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micky
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Posted: September 19 2007 at 19:22 |
el böthy wrote:
Nightfly wrote:
I can understand them getting lumped in with the Death
Metal bands on the early albums although far superior to what usually
goes as Death Metal.
I think quite a bit of their stuff is more technical than you give them credit for though, especially on Ghost Reveries.
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I think complex is more like it, technical doesn´t sound like it has anything to do with Opeth. Complex fits them better.
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 exactly..damn..have another clappie
.. maybe that is why I have enjoyed what I have heard from Opeth,
diving into their discography as I did this summer.. as opposed
to....other.. more technical groups. 
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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P.H.P.
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Posted: September 19 2007 at 23:40 |
el böthy wrote:
Nightfly wrote:
I can understand them getting lumped in with the Death Metal bands on the early albums although far superior to what usually goes as Death Metal.
I think quite a bit of their stuff is more technical than you give them credit for though, especially on Ghost Reveries.
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I think complex is more like it, technical doesn´t sound like it has anything to do with Opeth. Complex fits them better.
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I think Prog is the right word. 
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blaerg
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Posted: September 20 2007 at 00:44 |
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Opeth is a great band, i've been into them many years altho now their sound is kind of 'safe' for them and i've lost interest in following their new work (i still like my arms thru blackwater records).
as for the genre tagging discussion its pretty much a moot point
but
i'd say they definitely tread on death metal/black metal/prog/folk/psych soils.
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angelmk
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Posted: September 20 2007 at 10:02 |
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i love them. music is original, stunning, captivating, perfect. technical, melodic , akerfeldt is geneous , mastermind writes a mind blowing lyrics that touch your soul deeply. orchid is my favorite album.
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www.last.fm/user/angelmk 
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rushfan4
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Posted: September 20 2007 at 10:23 |
Opeth is a band that I tried and have moved on. The music was really good, but the cookie monster/death growls are just plain unlistenable for me. Damnation is an excellent album because the vocals are clean, everything else is basically ruined because of the vocals. At least to me, the death growls are completely out of place and don't fit in with the music.
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: September 20 2007 at 10:28 |
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^ IMO Opeth are one of very few bands who have growling vocals which actually fit the music. I'd recommend you give them a chance again after some time ... you may come to like them in the end. Like black coffee, dry wine or extremely dark chocolate it's something that takes some time to get used to.
Edited by MikeEnRegalia - September 20 2007 at 10:28
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Juliovp
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Posted: September 20 2007 at 11:38 |
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Opeth is an amazing band. They can go acoustic (Damnation) and heavy as Still Life, i think they fit in a lot of genres and also their song structures are complex with a lot of changes.
the best thing of hearing Opeth is that you can be surprised a lot of times in a song, can't predict what's coming
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P.H.P.
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Posted: September 20 2007 at 13:41 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
^ IMO Opeth are one of very few bands who have growling vocals which actually fit the music. I'd recommend you give them a chance again after some time ... you may come to like them in the end. Like black coffee, dry wine or extremely dark chocolate it's something that takes some time to get used to.
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Yeah, Opeth's music is an acquired taste, as Prog is.
Edited by P.H.P. - September 20 2007 at 13:42
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P.H.P.
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Posted: September 20 2007 at 13:46 |
rushfan4 wrote:
Opeth is a band that I tried and have moved on. The music was really good, but the cookie monster/death growls are just plain unlistenable for me. Damnation is an excellent album because the vocals are clean, everything else is basically ruined because of the vocals. At least to me, the death growls are completely out of place and don't fit in with the music. |
Opeth could be a very good Progressive Metal band, but let's not forget they're a metal band, so if you don't tolerate "cookie monster" growls, just don't pay too much attention to that, but you'll end up finding that Opeth wouldn't be Opeth without the growls, and in the end you'll also see that growls fits their music very well. 
Edited by P.H.P. - September 20 2007 at 13:46
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rushfan4
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Posted: September 20 2007 at 14:02 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
^ IMO Opeth are one of very few bands who have growling vocals which actually fit the music. I'd recommend you give them a chance again after some time ... you may come to like them in the end. Like black coffee, dry wine or extremely dark chocolate it's something that takes some time to get used to. |
I don't drink coffee nor wine (although sometimes I do whine, but that is another story), but I do like dark chocolate, just not extremely dark chocolate. I don't really think that Opeth will ever grow on me because of the cookie monster growls. That is the one are of heavy metal that I have never been able to get in to.
Growing up I used to watch Headbanger's Ball on MTV. This would have been in the days when it was dominated by Ozzy, Ratt and Motley Crue. Metallica and Megadeth were two of the "heavier" bands that I liked. I was able to get in to some Exodus and some Overkill and I seem to remember there was even a Slayer album that a friend of mine had that was pretty good, although I never really got in to them at all. At any rate, to get to the point of my posting, when I recently upgraded to Hi-Definition cable it came with MTV2 or MTV3 or something and they were showing Headbanger's Ball. For old-times sake I thought I would give it a listen. It was a horrible experience for me. Every band seemed to be either Black Metal or Death Metal. I continued to watch (probably like a car crash) to see if it would get any better; but it didn't. I just can't stomach those type of vocals. To me that is a shame since I did like Opeth's music, but the vocals just make me grimace.
I should also mention that Ayreon's The Human Equation is one of my favorite prog albums. I cringe when Mikael Akerfeldt and Devin Townsend are grunting but because they represent Fear and Rage the grunting does seem to be appropriate in expressing these emotions.
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Visitor13
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Posted: September 20 2007 at 14:16 |
rushfan4 wrote:
Opeth is a band that I tried and have moved on. The music was really good, but the cookie monster/death growls are just plain unlistenable for me. Damnation is an excellent album because the vocals are clean, everything else is basically ruined because of the vocals. At least to me, the death growls are completely out of place and don't fit in with the music. |
Quite the opposite - most of Opeth's instrumental sections couldn't work with non-growling vocals. Those that go with clean vocals are usually very different from those with growls. Just like growls would sound awkward with an acoustic background, clean vocals would really be out of place with most of the harder stuff.
And to ProgBagel - Opeth are indeed first and foremost about melody.
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rushfan4
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Posted: September 20 2007 at 14:18 |
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^ What is melodic about growling vocals?
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Visitor13
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Posted: September 20 2007 at 14:20 |
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Actually Akerfeldt's growls are quite melodic - something rare... but I'm talking about the instrumental sections mainly.
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rushfan4
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Posted: September 20 2007 at 14:30 |
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I have mentioned my feelings in other Opeth related threads. If Opeth's albums were sung with clean vocals they might very well be my favorite modern band, but since they growl instead I just can't get in to them and truly have a hard time understanding how anybody else can. I agree that instrumentally they are very melodic and that is why the death growls seem so out of place to me. I have half-joked that I would like to see their albums re-releases with clean vocals just to see how they would sound (and I know that this would be sacrilege to those of you who think that the death growls have their place in prog music). This would be the equivalent of bands that sing in their native tongue re-releasing their material in English so that it can be more universally enjoyed. (And yes, I know that these translations don't necessarily work all that well, especially for those from the native country that understand the original language).
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Visitor13
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Posted: September 20 2007 at 14:36 |
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Well, like I said, the clean vocals wouldn't work most of the time, you'd have to keep a lot of the music purely instrumental.
BTW, translations are a necessary evil, with the emphasis on 'evil' (I'm a translator, I know what kind of crap goes on in this line of work), so I'd much rather listen to stuff in the musician's native language.
Not to mention that the singer's pronunciation and accent in English can be dreadful, hurting a song much more than if it was sung in an little-spoken language.
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rushfan4
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Posted: September 20 2007 at 14:42 |
I would settle for the instrumental, but I think that I would prefer clean vocals, or at least Rob Halford-type screams versus the death growls.
And again, it might just be me, but I don't think that the death growls fit the music or the lyrics. I don't listen to death metal or black metal so I really don't know what these bands are even singing about, but I am of the opinion that the only time that death growls would work is if the lyrics are depicting anger or rage, or if you are trying to quote a hypothetical satan or devil. To me, Opeth's lyrics don't depict that.
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Visitor13
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Posted: September 20 2007 at 14:48 |
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I don't think growling works with any kind of lyrics, to be honest, but it's the only kind of vocals that works with some types of music, sticking to their timbre and rhythm (for want of better words).
Edited by Visitor13 - September 20 2007 at 14:48
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Csejthe
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Posted: September 20 2007 at 15:55 |
Visitor13 wrote:
I don't think growling works with any kind of lyrics, to be honest |
You think Cannibal Corpse or Devourment lyrics could be sung? Perhaps Opeth could go purely instrumental or sing all of their lyrics. But, in my opinion, Prog is not about what a band should be, but what a band can be--exploring the possibilities of music. And they do that very well, I think.
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