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Prog.Sylvie 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 12 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 449
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 Posted: September 19 2007 at 12:11 |
I second that Melomaniac  
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C'est la vie
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: September 19 2007 at 12:34 |
 Melomaniac wrote:
To all you Collins bashers : just get out there and do better than him, if he is so sh*tty, or just shut the hell up once and for all, your narrow vision gets very, very tiresome. |
Melomaniac, that's not our job, we are not proffesional musicians, sutrely we would do it worst, but this forum is to express your opinions, love or hate Phil Collins Genesis, in my case I hate it, that's why i wouldn't had gone even if I had the tickets for free, because I know I won't like the show.
BTW: I'm tired of listening people saying:
- If you don't like Rap you are narrow minded
- If you don't like Hip Hop, you are narrow minded
- If you don't like Phil Collins Genesis, you are narrow minded.
WHY???????
Aren't we allowed to have our own taste and like or dislike what we want?
We won't shut up, we are here to express our opinions, even if you or me don't like it, i read people bashing Kansas because of one song, I gave my opinion and arguments but never asked the person to shut up, or told them "Go out there and try to sing better than Steve Walsh", because that's absurd, most of the members here are not musicians and even less get paid fortunes to do that..
It's even worst in the case of ELP, there were lots of guys bashing them, but never read anybody saying "You are narrow minded if you don't like Love Beach"...Well most of the few who got angry and replied with hostility were banned.
So learn to live with it, people are here to express their opinion and more likely the vast majority of the members here don't like 3 men Genesis.
BTWI II: As you notice, this is my first post here, because I also believe it's absurd to go to a concert of a band you don't like because the tickets are for free. I wouldn't had even worried to write here if it wasn't for this quote and the one saying "God-damned purists", I'm a purist and oproud of it.
If I want to see Pop I go to see a Pop band not Genesis.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - September 19 2007 at 12:40
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 23 2005
Location: The Tardis
Status: Offline
Points: 8543
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Posted: September 19 2007 at 12:36 |
Melomaniac wrote:
Well, friday's concert was just great, I don't care what all those god-damn purists say. The concert started around 20h30 and ended at 23h00, without a break that is ! The guys still have it, still know how to play, and Collins knows how to take control of a crowd and please it. For me, highlights were Behind the Lines, Ripples, The drum duet leading into Los Endos, Firth of Fifth's instrumental section, Cinema Show's instrumental section, In the Cage, Mama, Domino and a very emotional rendition fro Collins on vocals during Hold on My heart (a crowd pleaser, huge positive reaction from the crowd).
To all you Collins bashers : just get out there and do better than him, if he is so sh*tty, or just shut the hell up once and for all, your narrow vision gets very, very tiresome. |
Sounds like they did manage to toss in some of their older tracks. And I'm glad to see they did songs like Domino as well.
By the way, I third your sentiment. I've never been a big fan of the albums IT or WCD (although loved some songs from each - Domino, Fading Lights, DTLS), but all the Collins bashing is annoying and pointless. There were three members who made their 80's albums. And if you check out Bankstatement and Mike & Mechanics, it is apparent that Collins wasn't the only one interested in pop music. Ultimately, Genesis have always been a pop band to some extent. Yes, they did 10+ minute long songs, when it was popular to do so. They just went along with the times. Something they had to do to survive as a band. And while I'm not a fan of a lot of their poppier material, they still retained a lot of creativity within the band on at least some songs.
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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salmacis
Forum Senior Member
Content Addition
Joined: April 10 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3928
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Posted: September 19 2007 at 12:49 |
^Exactly. When you look into the other members' solo careers, the Collins bashing doesn't hold up. And actually, it extends beyond Mike and the Mechanics and Bankstatement. It also should be remembered that Banks contributed stuff like 'Anything She Does' and 'Hold On My Heart' and Rutherford did dross like 'Taking It All Too Hard', 'Never A Time' and 'Way Of The World'.
It's not a question of narrowmindedness. If you dislike Collins-era Genesis, fine, nobody's gonna lose any sleep over it (there's no album I like in its entirety after 'Duke' myself). But repeating the same old 'Collins ruined Genesis' attitudes is really boring.
And on Progressive Ears, there's been a surprise amongst most members who saw the shows about how good they have been on this tour.
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Melomaniac
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 07 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 4088
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Posted: September 19 2007 at 12:55 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Melomaniac wrote:
To all you Collins bashers : just get out there and do better than him, if he is so sh*tty, or just shut the hell up once and for all, your narrow vision gets very, very tiresome. |
Melomaniac, that's not our job, we are not proffesional musicians, sutrely we would do it worst, but this forum is to express your opinions, love or hate Phil Collins Genesis, in my case I hate it, that's why i wouldn't had gone even if I had the tickets for free, because I know I won't like the show.
BTW: I'm tired of listening people saying:
- If you don't like Rap you are narrow minded
- If you don't like Hip Hop, you are narrow minded
- If you don't like Phil Collins Genesis, you are narrow minded.
WHY???????
Aren't we allowed to have our own taste and like or dislike what we want?
We won't shut up, we are here to express our opinions, even if you or me don't like it, i read people bashing Kansas because of one song, I gave my opinion and arguments but never asked the person to shut up, or told them "Go out there and try to sing better than Steve Walsh", because that's absurd, most of the members here are not musicians and even less get paid fortunes to do that..
It's even worst in the case of ELP, there were lots of guys bashing them, but never read anybody saying "You are narrow minded if you don't like Love Beach"...Well most of the few who got angry and replied with hostility were banned.
So learn to live with it, people are here to express their opinion and more likely the vast majority of the members here don't like 3 men Genesis.
BTWI II: As you notice, this is my first post here, because I also believe it's absurd to go to a concert of a band you don't like because the tickets are for free. I wouldn't had even worried to write here if it wasn't for this quote and the one saying "God-damned purists", I'm a purist and oproud of it.
If I want to see Pop I go to see a Pop band not Genesis.
Iván
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Well, it was my opinion, I stand by it, though I could have used some diplomacy or delicacy, I will give you that.
See, the thing is I discovered Genesis when Mama came out, I was in my early teens (or pre-teens) and I still appreciate it for what it is : pop of very high quality. Later, when I discovered the older Genesis, I knew it was something very special, but different, not better or worse. Like I previously said a long while ago on this very forum, had Genesis changed their name to Collins, Banks, Rutherford, I bet they wouldn't get the bashing they get, yet the music would still be the same.
I know the majority of people on PA don't like the 3 man Genesis, but I also bet that there are quite a few in those people who won't admit they actually like it, because it is so uncool to like it in these forums.
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"One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: September 19 2007 at 13:26 |
Melomaniac wrote:
Well, it was my opinion, I stand by it, though I could have used some diplomacy or delicacy, I will give you that.
See, the thing is I discovered Genesis when Mama came out, I was in my early teens (or pre-teens) and I still appreciate it for what it is : pop of very high quality. Later, when I discovered the older Genesis, I knew it was something very special, but different, not better or worse. Like I previously said a long while ago on this very forum, had Genesis changed their name to Collins, Banks, Rutherford, I bet they wouldn't get the bashing they get, yet the music would still be the same.
I know the majority of people on PA don't like the 3 man Genesis, but I also bet that there are quite a few in those people who won't admit they actually like it, because it is so uncool to like it in these forums. |
There's no problem if you like 3 men Genesis or not, that's only personal taste.
In my case3 i started with 5 men Genesis so it's hard for me to accept the change, I'm also sure that if they changed their names nobody would even care about them because it's the name Genesis is a word that carries a lot of meaning as pioneers and one of the most respected Prog bands.
Most of us like other genres also but it's hard for us listening the band we once loved releasing albums like Invisible Touch or Shapes, but most of the hatred is caused by Phil himself, he spoke a lot of BS about Genesis, Prog and other respected bands when they were extremely popular and later tried to change his discourse when they were not popular anymore.
So his actions or words caused a logical reaction in the people who heard them talking about Progressive Rock bands as rotten apples that fell off the trees because Punk shake them or that he never liked what they did and even said once he felt embarrassed, but even worst than those words is listening today saying that The Lamb is his favorite album and he always loved Yes.
Now, I don’t believe anybody here will stop saying which band they love, the atmosphere promoted by owners and Administrators was always of freedom of speech, but I believe less that somebody who loves 3 men era will ever say they were crap.
Just to finish, I agree with the point that this thread seems absurd, because if you don’t like a band, you just don’t go, it’s a bit unfair to go to a concert you know you won’t like and then criticize it………If you knew you were not going to like it, just don’t go, or if you go, you shouldn’t start the thread because you already expected what you got for free.
Phil Collins came here and I preferred staying in a pub because I don’t like his music, I once criticized the Invisible Touch tour because it was my first Genesis concert and I expected something different, but if you know you’re going to hate something, avoid it.
But it's also wrong to ask people to shut up because you don't like what they say, here you come to listen what you like and what you don't like. Iván
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Melomaniac
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 07 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 4088
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Posted: September 19 2007 at 14:16 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Melomaniac wrote:
Well, it was my opinion, I stand by it, though I could have used some diplomacy or delicacy, I will give you that.
See, the thing is I discovered Genesis when Mama came out, I was in my early teens (or pre-teens) and I still appreciate it for what it is : pop of very high quality. Later, when I discovered the older Genesis, I knew it was something very special, but different, not better or worse. Like I previously said a long while ago on this very forum, had Genesis changed their name to Collins, Banks, Rutherford, I bet they wouldn't get the bashing they get, yet the music would still be the same.
I know the majority of people on PA don't like the 3 man Genesis, but I also bet that there are quite a few in those people who won't admit they actually like it, because it is so uncool to like it in these forums. |
There's no problem if you like 3 men Genesis or not, that's only personal taste.
In my case3 i started with 5 men Genesis so it's hard for me to accept the change, I'm also sure that if they changed their names nobody would even care about them because it's the name Genesis is a word that carries a lot of meaning as pioneers and one of the most respected Prog bands.
Most of us like other genres also but it's hard for us listening the band we once loved releasing albums like Invisible Touch or Shapes, but most of the hatred is caused by Phil himself, he spoke a lot of BS about Genesis, Prog and other respected bands when they were extremely popular and later tried to change his discourse when they were not popular anymore.
So his actions or words caused a logical reaction in the people who heard them talking about Progressive Rock bands as rotten apples that fell off the trees because Punk shake them or that he never liked what they did and even said once he felt embarrassed, but even worst than those words is listening today saying that The Lamb is his favorite album and he always loved Yes.
Now, I don’t believe anybody here will stop saying which band they love, the atmosphere promoted by owners and Administrators was always of freedom of speech, but I believe less that somebody who loves 3 men era will ever say they were crap.
Just to finish, I agree with the point that this thread seems absurd, because if you don’t like a band, you just don’t go, it’s a bit unfair to go to a concert you know you won’t like and then criticize it………If you knew you were not going to like it, just don’t go, or if you go, you shouldn’t start the thread because you already expected what you got for free.
Phil Collins came here and I preferred staying in a pub because I don’t like his music, I once criticized the Invisible Touch tour because it was my first Genesis concert and I expected something different, but if you know you’re going to hate something, avoid it.
But it's also wrong to ask people to shut up because you don't like what they say, here you come to listen what you like and what you don't like. Iván |
People don't bash Neil Peart, and he said the following about all the pre Moving Pictures albums : "They are like kids drawings that hang on the refrigerator for too long, and I believe there is no need for these albums to still be listened to." And it was also he who provided the rap section in Roll the Bones, and his favorite Rush albums are Power Windows and Hold your Fire (all this info taken from the book Contents Under Pressure : 30 years of Rush at home and away). And we also know how they don't write complex prog epics, yet they never get flamed as Genesis are.
Now I'm not saying I like EVERY Genesis song from the 3 man version, some are just horrible, but they still managed to put out songs like Home by the Sea, Domino, The Brazilian, and the excellent Driving the Last Spike, Dreaming While you Sleep and Fading Lights from We Can't Dance. I believe it was their way of satisfying their prog leanings as well as trying to satisfy their long time fans.
Also, like I previously said, I should have used more delicacy in my statement and I apologize to people I may have offended.
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"One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio
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Prog.Sylvie
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 12 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 449
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Posted: September 19 2007 at 14:48 |
We don't want stopping people to express their opinions, but maybe sometimes we are fed up to read too much negative things on this board.
The problem with Vibration, is that he likes nothing and he likes to bash every shows, every festivals, Montreal and so on... Enough of this. This member should be shutted up and banned. We don't need this constant negativness on this forum. It's very sad, because everytime that I want to post something about a show or an event happening in Montreal, Vibration don't forget to post something negative about it and likes to bash everything even if usually he does not attend the event or the show... 
Maybe it would be a good idea to get rid of him...
Edited by Prog.Sylvie - September 19 2007 at 14:48
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C'est la vie
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Melomaniac
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 07 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 4088
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Posted: September 19 2007 at 14:52 |
Prog.Sylvie wrote:
We don't want stopping people to express their opinions, but maybe sometimes we are fed up to read too much negative things on this board.
The problem with Vibration, is that he likes nothing and he likes to bash every shows, every festivals, Montreal and so on... Enough of this. This member should be shutted up and banned. We don't need this constant negativness on this forum. It's very sad, because everytime that I want to post something about a show or an event happening in Montreal, Vibration don't forget to post something negative about it and likes to bash everything even if usually he does not attend the event or the show...
Maybe it would be a good idea to get rid of him... |
You can't help but feel sorry for him sometimes, he sounds like a frustrated old git from Toronto !!!
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"One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio
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Melomaniac
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 07 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 4088
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Posted: September 19 2007 at 15:08 |
Who else would want your disagreable company anyway ?
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"One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio
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salmacis
Forum Senior Member
Content Addition
Joined: April 10 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3928
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Posted: September 19 2007 at 15:10 |
Melomaniac wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Melomaniac wrote:
Well, it was my opinion, I stand by it, though I could have used some diplomacy or delicacy, I will give you that.
See, the thing is I discovered Genesis when Mama came out, I was in my early teens (or pre-teens) and I still appreciate it for what it is : pop of very high quality. Later, when I discovered the older Genesis, I knew it was something very special, but different, not better or worse. Like I previously said a long while ago on this very forum, had Genesis changed their name to Collins, Banks, Rutherford, I bet they wouldn't get the bashing they get, yet the music would still be the same.
I know the majority of people on PA don't like the 3 man Genesis, but I also bet that there are quite a few in those people who won't admit they actually like it, because it is so uncool to like it in these forums. |
There's no problem if you like 3 men Genesis or not, that's only personal taste.
In my case3 i started with 5 men Genesis so it's hard for me to accept the change, I'm also sure that if they changed their names nobody would even care about them because it's the name Genesis is a word that carries a lot of meaning as pioneers and one of the most respected Prog bands.
Most of us like other genres also but it's hard for us listening the band we once loved releasing albums like Invisible Touch or Shapes, but most of the hatred is caused by Phil himself, he spoke a lot of BS about Genesis, Prog and other respected bands when they were extremely popular and later tried to change his discourse when they were not popular anymore.
So his actions or words caused a logical reaction in the people who heard them talking about Progressive Rock bands as rotten apples that fell off the trees because Punk shake them or that he never liked what they did and even said once he felt embarrassed, but even worst than those words is listening today saying that The Lamb is his favorite album and he always loved Yes.
Now, I don’t believe anybody here will stop saying which band they love, the atmosphere promoted by owners and Administrators was always of freedom of speech, but I believe less that somebody who loves 3 men era will ever say they were crap.
Just to finish, I agree with the point that this thread seems absurd, because if you don’t like a band, you just don’t go, it’s a bit unfair to go to a concert you know you won’t like and then criticize it………If you knew you were not going to like it, just don’t go, or if you go, you shouldn’t start the thread because you already expected what you got for free.
Phil Collins came here and I preferred staying in a pub because I don’t like his music, I once criticized the Invisible Touch tour because it was my first Genesis concert and I expected something different, but if you know you’re going to hate something, avoid it.
But it's also wrong to ask people to shut up because you don't like what they say, here you come to listen what you like and what you don't like. Iván |
People don't bash Neil Peart, and he said the following about all the pre Moving Pictures albums : "They are like kids drawings that hang on the refrigerator for too long, and I believe there is no need for these albums to still be listened to." And it was also he who provided the rap section in Roll the Bones, and his favorite Rush albums are Power Windows and Hold your Fire (all this info taken from the book Contents Under Pressure : 30 years of Rush at home and away). And we also know how they don't write complex prog epics, yet they never get flamed as Genesis are.
Now I'm not saying I like EVERY Genesis song from the 3 man version, some are just horrible, but they still managed to put out songs like Home by the Sea, Domino, The Brazilian, and the excellent Driving the Last Spike, Dreaming While you Sleep and Fading Lights from We Can't Dance. I believe it was their way of satisfying their prog leanings as well as trying to satisfy their long time fans.
Also, like I previously said, I should have used more delicacy in my statement and I apologize to people I may have offended. |
I'm in agreement with you Melomaniac. I think Phil tried to distance himself from the 'prog' tag and other bands because of the musical climate change, and it was the wrong move, IMHO. However, he's far from the only musician to do that. I've read Chris Cutler lay into prog bands in general and he doesn't get as much flak; it's always Phil which gets the most heat.
As for Phil liking Yes, he says in the recent Genesis book 'Chapter And Verse' that he loved the 'Close To The Edge' era but I don't get the impression that he liked much beyond that. And for the record, he speaks of VDGG in that book with real respect and admiration.
There is still a lot of excellent material on the 80s Genesis albums, yeah. I could honestly say there is not one Genesis album I won't defend in some way (I can scarcely think of many other bands that I accept every album of); 'Abacab' is maybe my least favourite but that has some good material that really came alive on concert recordings I have. I like some of the pop tunes too; 'That's All', 'Land Of Confusion', 'No Son Of Mine', 'Jesus He Knows Me' and 'Keep It Dark', to name a few, are much better than a lot of singles released in that era, IMHO.
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Melomaniac
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 07 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 4088
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Posted: September 19 2007 at 15:13 |
^^
Glad to read I'm not the only one who thinks that way, Salmacis.
Have you read Chapter and Verse ?
I plan on getting it soon, must be a damn good read !
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"One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio
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salmacis
Forum Senior Member
Content Addition
Joined: April 10 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3928
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Posted: September 19 2007 at 15:16 |
I haven't bought it yet- it's quite costly- BUT it's a great book based on what I've read in it.
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Neil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 04 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1497
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Posted: September 19 2007 at 15:17 |
Vibrationbaby wrote:
They`re a symbol of excessive greed. And the sound was crap. |
Whilst I don't necessarily subscribe to the first statement I must confess that the last two times that I saw them the mix was pretty average. The last time was the "Calling All Stations" tour and I also wouldn't have gone if I hadn't had free tickets.
I do like some of the post Gabriel/Hackett stuff and whatever anyone says the remaining three musicians do have considerable writing and musical talent. I saw them at Knebworth in the early nineties and that was a good gig by any standards.
They do appear to have cultivated a bit of an image problem 'though; mostly I think down to some of the actions of Mr Collins. The ticket cost does seem excessive as well; especially considering that Rush are currently playing the UK for about £45 a ticket. Why did Genesis need well over £100 a ticket?
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When people get lost in thought it's often because it's unfamiliar territory.
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Melomaniac
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 07 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 4088
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Posted: September 19 2007 at 15:21 |
Heavyfreight wrote:
Vibrationbaby wrote:
They`re a symbol of excessive greed. And the sound was crap. |
Whilst I don't necessarily subscribe to the first statement I must confess that the last two times that I saw them the mix was pretty average. The last time was the "Calling All Stations" tour and I also wouldn't have gone if I hadn't had free tickets.
I do like some of the post Gabriel/Hackett stuff and whatever anyone says the remaining three musicians do have considerable writing and musical talent. I saw them at Knebworth in the early nineties and that was a good gig by any standards.
They do appear to have cultivated a bit of an image problem 'though; mostly I think down to some of the actions of Mr Collins. The ticket cost does seem excessive as well; especially considering that Rush are currently playing the UK for about £45 a ticket. Why did Genesis need well over £100 a ticket? |
Have you seen their live rig this time around ? Hell, it's bigger than anything U2 ever used, and I have heard though cannot confirm that there are at least two or three of these rigs traveling around, so that's a lot of money only for transportation, crew, venue rentals, etc,etc...
I saw both Rush and Genesis last week-end (what a blast I had) and there is no comparison between the two live rigs, so I think the ticket fee is somewhat justified, and I for one gladly paid it.
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"One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio
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jimmy_row
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 11 2007
Location: Hibernation
Status: Offline
Points: 2601
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Posted: September 19 2007 at 18:58 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
If I want to see Pop I go to see a Pop band not Genesis.
Iván
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hello Ivan.
I think you would be pleasantly surpised with the current setlist, they do a good job of representing each era and play the music with a lot of enthusiasm...Phil is really starting to get his old juice back when he goes behind the kit. Although the ticket prices are very high, many people rave about how great the show is (there was a good thread over on Progressive Ears about the tour), they three of them really seem to embrace the progressive songs as well as the pop stuff, so I'd atleast give the fella's a chance before writing off the tour like this. I haven't been able to see them, but I really wish I could....maybe if Pete comes around and they do the Lamb (I'm still crossing my fingers).
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jimmy_row
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 11 2007
Location: Hibernation
Status: Offline
Points: 2601
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Posted: September 19 2007 at 19:06 |
salmacis wrote:
Melomaniac wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Melomaniac wrote:
Well, it was my opinion, I stand by it, though I could have used some diplomacy or delicacy, I will give you that.
See, the thing is I discovered Genesis when Mama came out, I was in my early teens (or pre-teens) and I still appreciate it for what it is : pop of very high quality. Later, when I discovered the older Genesis, I knew it was something very special, but different, not better or worse. Like I previously said a long while ago on this very forum, had Genesis changed their name to Collins, Banks, Rutherford, I bet they wouldn't get the bashing they get, yet the music would still be the same.
I know the majority of people on PA don't like the 3 man Genesis, but I also bet that there are quite a few in those people who won't admit they actually like it, because it is so uncool to like it in these forums. |
There's no problem if you like 3 men Genesis or not, that's only personal taste.
In my case3 i started with 5 men Genesis so it's hard for me to accept the change, I'm also sure that if they changed their names nobody would even care about them because it's the name Genesis is a word that carries a lot of meaning as pioneers and one of the most respected Prog bands.
Most of us like other genres also but it's hard for us listening the band we once loved releasing albums like Invisible Touch or Shapes, but most of the hatred is caused by Phil himself, he spoke a lot of BS about Genesis, Prog and other respected bands when they were extremely popular and later tried to change his discourse when they were not popular anymore.
So his actions or words caused a logical reaction in the people who heard them talking about Progressive Rock bands as rotten apples that fell off the trees because Punk shake them or that he never liked what they did and even said once he felt embarrassed, but even worst than those words is listening today saying that The Lamb is his favorite album and he always loved Yes.
Now, I don’t believe anybody here will stop saying which band they love, the atmosphere promoted by owners and Administrators was always of freedom of speech, but I believe less that somebody who loves 3 men era will ever say they were crap.
Just to finish, I agree with the point that this thread seems absurd, because if you don’t like a band, you just don’t go, it’s a bit unfair to go to a concert you know you won’t like and then criticize it………If you knew you were not going to like it, just don’t go, or if you go, you shouldn’t start the thread because you already expected what you got for free.
Phil Collins came here and I preferred staying in a pub because I don’t like his music, I once criticized the Invisible Touch tour because it was my first Genesis concert and I expected something different, but if you know you’re going to hate something, avoid it.
But it's also wrong to ask people to shut up because you don't like what they say, here you come to listen what you like and what you don't like. Iván |
People don't bash Neil Peart, and he said the following about all the pre Moving Pictures albums : "They are like kids drawings that hang on the refrigerator for too long, and I believe there is no need for these albums to still be listened to." And it was also he who provided the rap section in Roll the Bones, and his favorite Rush albums are Power Windows and Hold your Fire (all this info taken from the book Contents Under Pressure : 30 years of Rush at home and away). And we also know how they don't write complex prog epics, yet they never get flamed as Genesis are.
Now I'm not saying I like EVERY Genesis song from the 3 man version, some are just horrible, but they still managed to put out songs like Home by the Sea, Domino, The Brazilian, and the excellent Driving the Last Spike, Dreaming While you Sleep and Fading Lights from We Can't Dance. I believe it was their way of satisfying their prog leanings as well as trying to satisfy their long time fans.
Also, like I previously said, I should have used more delicacy in my statement and I apologize to people I may have offended. |
I'm in agreement with you Melomaniac. I think Phil tried to distance himself from the 'prog' tag and other bands because of the musical climate change, and it was the wrong move, IMHO. However, he's far from the only musician to do that. I've read Chris Cutler lay into prog bands in general and he doesn't get as much flak; it's always Phil which gets the most heat.
As for Phil liking Yes, he says in the recent Genesis book 'Chapter And Verse' that he loved the 'Close To The Edge' era but I don't get the impression that he liked much beyond that. And for the record, he speaks of VDGG in that book with real respect and admiration.
There is still a lot of excellent material on the 80s Genesis albums, yeah. I could honestly say there is not one Genesis album I won't defend in some way (I can scarcely think of many other bands that I accept every album of); 'Abacab' is maybe my least favourite but that has some good material that really came alive on concert recordings I have. I like some of the pop tunes too; 'That's All', 'Land Of Confusion', 'No Son Of Mine', 'Jesus He Knows Me' and 'Keep It Dark', to name a few, are much better than a lot of singles released in that era, IMHO. |
I agree also. I'm usually somewhat embarassed to admit that I can listen to every Genesis album and find strong points all around. I think the pop albums, "Shapes" in particular, are easy to write off for the change in direction and loss of grandeur, but then we're forgetting to see them for what they are: darn good pop albums. I second that they often sound better on live recordings; I've heard a recording or two from the Mama tour that really pack some heat: so I can definately say they cared about what they were doing then, it's not as if they were just fumbling about for the money and fame (which is what many Gabriel-era fans, "purists", will always believe).
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: September 19 2007 at 21:55 |
jimmy_row wrote:
hello Ivan.
I think you would be pleasantly surpised with the current setlist, they do a good job of representing each era and play the music with a lot of enthusiasm...Phil is really starting to get his old juice back when he goes behind the kit. Although the ticket prices are very high, many people rave about how great the show is (there was a good thread over on Progressive Ears about the tour), they three of them really seem to embrace the progressive songs as well as the pop stuff, so I'd atleast give the fella's a chance before writing off the tour like this. I haven't been able to see them, but I really wish I could....maybe if Pete comes around and they do the Lamb (I'm still crossing my fingers). |
I seen it Jimmy, but honestly I can't styand a single post W&W track except the Brazilian, I don't care to see the excellent Jazz guitar player Daryl Stuermer making Hackett's parts and much less can't stand Collins voice.
I went to see the Invisible Touch toutr and they played some Prog stuff, it was equally disappointing, one of the two concerts I left befoptre it ended (the other one was Jon Anderson solo in Lima).
So no, that's not for me, I wouldn't go for free, but again I believe it0's absurd to go to a concert you know before that you won't like.
Iván
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jimmy_row
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Posted: September 20 2007 at 01:51 |
yea the Invisible Touch tour wasn't exactly anything to write home about from what I've seen, nor was the dreadful We Can't Dance tour (now that I think about it, here's ONE Genesis album I have a hard time finding anything good about)...I think they're much better now than 20 years ago when they were pretending to hate prog to push their pop career (I mean, c'mon, you can play decent pop music AND acknowledge the brilliance of your past)...they have a much better feel for the old stuff these days, maybe a bit of nostalgia? But anyway, I understand if you don't like Phil's voice, there's some Gabriel songs that I really don't like to hear Phil sing (Dancing with the Moonlit Knight anyone?...good thing that didn't last long). No use going to a show you won't enjoy, even if the tickets are free - seems like someone is just trying to be difficult in that case.
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salmacis
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Posted: September 20 2007 at 04:49 |
'We Can't Dance' is too long, IMHO. As a single album it would have been much better, as pretty much every one of those ballads on there is well below par.
I don't feel embarassed about admitting to liking some of the 3 man era albums. The irony of people saying how 'uncool' these 80s albums are is precious; even Genesis themselves admit they've hardly ever been fashionable at any point in their careers and prog as a genre is not cool, either. But do I care? Not a bit of it. 'Embarassed', 'guilty pleasures' and 'uncool' are terms I take no notice of!!
I will say though, Phil just couldn't sing 'Dancing With The Moonlit Knight', IMHO. Some of the Gabriel songs I thought he was brilliant with ('Carpet Crawlers', 'In The Cage' and yes, 'Supper's Ready') but this was not one of them.
Edited by salmacis - September 20 2007 at 04:50
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