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The T View Drop Down
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Band additions; it takes 10 minutes.WITH YOUR HELP
    Posted: September 12 2007 at 13:58
Well, it might seem quite audacious for me, the newest collaborator, to be saying this, but anyway, in the few days since I was promoted, I've already noticed two things:
 
1. It takes some time to add bands, specially obscure bands which you don't know. Now I understand why bands can't just..."get added". People here have to find 30 (at least) minutes on their days to add a band they don't have any info about.
 
2. It takes 10 MINUTES when someone helps with either the bio, the data, or everything. Some member wanted a metal band added which had already been approved; he sent me the bio, the discography, the links, about 75% of what was needed, and about 95%of the links neccesary to get what was missing. So it took like 10 minutes.
 
So, for all the members that want to have a band added, well, it takes an eternity without help (well, not that much, but who has 30-60 minutes to spare these days?); it takes 10 MINUTES with help.
 
So don't complain and act!!AngryTongue
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darkmatter View Drop Down
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Points: 2760 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2007 at 14:02
Good call, T.  I don't really like those threads where people list bands they think should be added, or complain, "Why isn't so-and-so band here?!"  I'm sure providing samples and a brief synopsis of the band would help many times more then just a list of bands or complaints. 
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Points: 24429 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2007 at 14:04
Teo, you're a marvel...Hug Thank you for putting into much better words what I expressed yesterday in the Collabs zone. BTW, what you said is the gospel truth... It can take even more than 30 minutes if the act is obscure, or if you don't have any samples at your disposal. So, fellow members, draw your own conclusions!
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Points: 3596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2007 at 14:47
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Well, it might seem quite audacious for me, the newest collaborator, to be saying this, but anyway, in the few days since I was promoted, I've already noticed two things:
 
1. It takes some time to add bands, specially obscure bands which you don't know. Now I understand why bands can't just..."get added". People here have to find 30 (at least) minutes on their days to add a band they don't have any info about.
 
2. It takes 10 MINUTES when someone helps with either the bio, the data, or everything. Some member wanted a metal band added which had already been approved; he sent me the bio, the discography, the links, about 75% of what was needed, and about 95%of the links neccesary to get what was missing. So it took like 10 minutes.
 
So, for all the members that want to have a band added, well, it takes an eternity without help (well, not that much, but who has 30-60 minutes to spare these days?); it takes 10 MINUTES with help.
 
So don't complain and act!!AngryTongue

At one point I tried to add Caramel Mou & Eclipse (quebec prog) but was asked to include mp3 zip files which I did not feel comfortable doing.
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Points: 4088 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2007 at 14:57
Since my guess is that Theo's initial post in this thread is in no small part due to a certain mishap from me yesterday, I have made my mea-culpa : I have posted a bio for the band I proposed to the prog metal team along with links that I used as references, including a myspace page with 4 songs.  I have also (like I said previously) uploaded their two first albums to make them available for the guys.
 
I am more than happy to provide help !  Big%20smile and will gladly do so if I can help any further.
 
I would also like to take a few words to apologize to anyone who's feelings I may have hurt with my impromptu exit yesterday (Jody and Theo in particular, sorry guys!!!).
 
I will try to phrase my thoughts so they are not accusing or attacking in any way in the future.
"One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio
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Points: 46301 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2007 at 16:02
very nice and consoling speech towards our good and sometimes harder than imagined efforts, THEO! Clap
 
but, of course, we'll have to always specify that these 10 minutes will happen if that band is on the approved list. After all, some Teams still work on approving or appreciating a band, before it has been suggested. That takes a normal time that, otherwise, would be called rush and neglijence. Wink
 
I myself love doing hard and obscure jobs, it's part of the devotion towards prog music, but, even with 30 minutes going down the drain in one day, the thing about when we receive cheap and obscure informations and datas, about a band being suggested, still stands painfully true - and should be improved. Smile
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Points: 20033 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2007 at 17:50
ClapClap
This is why we ask for all the relevant info before accepting a submission.

Edited by chopper - September 12 2007 at 17:50
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Kotro View Drop Down
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Points: 2815 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2007 at 05:20

From what I can see from an outsider perspective, it is indeed the aprovals, not the aditions, that take time. Especially when we are required to provide an all-copypasteable info pack with the submissions. How long can people take to read 3 Word pages and listen to 5 mp3 files? Stern%20Smile  



Edited by Kotro - September 13 2007 at 05:20
Bigger on the inside.
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Points: 24429 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2007 at 05:27
Originally posted by Kotro Kotro wrote:

From what I can see from an outsider perspective, it is indeed the aprovals, not the aditions, that take time. Especially when we are required to provide an all-copypasteable info pack with the submissions. How long can people take to read 3 Word pages and listen to 5 mp3 files? Stern%20Smile  



Much more than you would expect, especially if you remember that we're all working FOR FREE and that we also have lives outside PA. I can listen to samples because at the moment I'm working at home, but many other people (like Micky, for instance) only have the evening hours at their disposal.

As to the "copypasteable" info pack, personally I always look through bios and discographies in order to edit them and make them presentable. You'd be surprised how sloppy people can be when writing stuff - and then, there are guidelines to be respected, if we don't want the poor guys in the Errors and Omissions team to spend all their time tracking down poorly written entries.
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Points: 65664 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2007 at 05:40
Originally posted by Ghost Rider Ghost Rider wrote:

Originally posted by Kotro Kotro wrote:

From what I can see from an outsider perspective, it is indeed the aprovals, not the aditions, that take time. Especially when we are required to provide an all-copypasteable info pack with the submissions. How long can people take to read 3 Word pages and listen to 5 mp3 files? Stern%20Smile  



Much more than you would expect, especially if you remember that we're all working FOR FREE and that we also have lives outside PA. I can listen to samples because at the moment I'm working at home, but many other people (like Micky, for instance) only have the evening hours at their disposal.

As to the "copypasteable" info pack, personally I always look through bios and discographies in order to edit them and make them presentable. You'd be surprised how sloppy people can be when writing stuff - and then, there are guidelines to be respected, if we don't want the poor guys in the Errors and Omissions team to spend all their time tracking down poorly written entries.


yes, and that's just to start, there's also--

-  multiple listenings (which can be important)
-  fact-checking and finding back-up information
-  evaluations, discussions and debates with teammates
- checking with other teams to make sure we're all on the same page
- making sure 'Band Q' is the right 'Band Q', as there are many acts with the same name

and other things too... it takes time to do a good job, even in your spare time
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Points: 46301 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2007 at 06:02
@Kotro: it is as I've mentioned; if we would do the approval of a band in the pace you've just described, we could just as well call ourselves "[Prog Genre] Amateurs", because it would be a work made in haste and imprecision.
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Points: 1723 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2007 at 06:55
Originally posted by Kotro Kotro wrote:

From what I can see from an outsider perspective, it is indeed the aprovals, not the aditions, that take time. Especially when we are required to provide an all-copypasteable info pack with the submissions. How long can people take to read 3 Word pages and listen to 5 mp3 files? Stern%20Smile  



Everything will of course have to be checked. It's not been the first time someone send in a heavily biased biography for an artist, mentioning genres that don't fit or comparisons that were incorrect. And as said before, these are all volunteers, so you cannot expect them to instantly listen/read anything presented to them.
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The T View Drop Down
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2007 at 13:52
Originally posted by Kotro Kotro wrote:

From what I can see from an outsider perspective, it is indeed the aprovals, not the aditions, that take time. Especially when we are required to provide an all-copypasteable info pack with the submissions. How long can people take to read 3 Word pages and listen to 5 mp3 files? Stern%20Smile  

 
I'm new here, and I can tell you, you're wrong. The approvals DO take time... If we listened only 5 mp3 files, that still makes like 30 minutes (we're talking prog here, not 3:00 pop songs)... and of course, if we have the chance to hear MORE than just 5 mp3 files, we'll do it, as, you know, 5 songs are not the best measure to judge a band progresiveness (even a whole album sometimes isn't...)....I work 30-40 hours a week and go to school, and besides that, I have to eat and sleep, don't I? Maybe it's easier for people still in high school but most of us don't have loads and loads of time. We also have to check the info sent to us (well, I've only had to do that once yet, since I'm new Tongue)... who assures us that whoever sent the information is right or didn't just write a lot of nonsense? And then the addition process which is smooth but needs you to be focused... So, please, if you have 6 hours a day 7 days a week, be my guest...
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2007 at 14:07
Ok, if you guys need help then you really need to promote me.  I've contributed a lot of first time reviews and added a lot of albums for artists that have already been added.  I already spend too much of my free time on this site and would be happy to help.  Nudge nudge wink wink...
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2007 at 14:12
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Ok, if you guys need help then you really need to promote me.  I've contributed a lot of first time reviews and added a lot of albums for artists that have already been added.  I already spend too much of my free time on this site and would be happy to help.  Nudge nudge wink wink...
 
i like your self promotion... Reminds me of a cerTain masTer....Tongue
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Points: 5109 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2007 at 14:12
Thanks Teo, having someone new to the ranks say this really helps shed some light on what we do. It does take time, and you were quoting time frames for artists you had information for. It's taken a lot longer for ones I've had almost nothing to start with. Sometimes you also have to be patient when waiting for the artists themselves. I am working on one now, and the guy is a busy Lawyer. We have been playing email tag for quite a while.
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Points: 24429 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2007 at 14:28
Originally posted by bhikkhu bhikkhu wrote:

Thanks Teo, having someone new to the ranks say this really helps shed some light on what we do. It does take time, and you were quoting time frames for artists you had information for. It's taken a lot longer for ones I've had almost nothing to start with. Sometimes you also have to be patient when waiting for the artists themselves. I am working on one now, and the guy is a busy Lawyer. We have been playing email tag for quite a while.


Oh, I had no idea you were planning on adding Ivan to the database... WinkLOL
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Points: 5109 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2007 at 14:41
Originally posted by Ghost Rider Ghost Rider wrote:


Originally posted by bhikkhu bhikkhu wrote:

Thanks Teo, having someone new to the ranks say this really helps shed some light on what we do. It does take time, and you were quoting time frames for artists you had information for. It's taken a lot longer for ones I've had almost nothing to start with. Sometimes you also have to be patient when waiting for the artists themselves. I am working on one now, and the guy is a busy Lawyer. We have been playing email tag for quite a while.
Oh, I had no idea you were planning on adding Ivan to the database... WinkLOL


What, you mean you haven't heard IVAN MELGAR-MOREY AND THE COSMIC PERUVIANS?




Edited by bhikkhu - September 13 2007 at 14:42
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Kotro View Drop Down
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Points: 2815 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2007 at 17:16
I am sorry if I insulted any of you hard-working collabs. It was not my intention. I certainly do not want to imply that you, as volunteers, should devote your all life to PA. And I certainly didn't mean you would be able to receive a band submission and add it 30 minutes later. I understand that the procedure requires a lot of double checking, by a lot of people. And how frustrating it can be to have people constantly breething on your shoulder asking "did you add that band yet?".
 
As some of you might know (although not many, I should expect), I am a bit of a critic when it comes to the fast addition of more known acts whose prog affiliation is sometimes dubious, when older, real prog acts from yesterday and today (some not that unknown at all) are constantly being ignored or left behind, with their addition suspended.
 
Another thing that, in my outsider perspective, annoys me and causes me to make some irreflected comments is the seemingly preferential treatment some bands and members get. From what I can see (and again, I can accept being completely wrong in this case), some bands who enjoy apreciation by some collabs get added more quickly. An example I recall was when a Collab (I apologise, I don't remember who, nor the topic in which it occured - but I am sure he will say who he is, if he reads this) added Roman Bunka 1-2 weeks after he was sugested in that topic by BaldJean, after telling Jean he/she would personaly see to it regarding that adition. Said and done. It is a bit frustrating for people like me to witness this, after investing some time in compiling a honest triple submission of aknowledged prog acts from my country, following all the band submission rules, and not seeing them added after 9 months.
 
So, again I apologise if my comments hurt anyone, but my question remains, this time in another tone: do collabs really need 9 months to read 3 Word pages and listen to 5 mp3 files before adding an aknowleged progressive rock act, when in some cases they have proven they can do it in a matter of weeks?  
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Points: 46838 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2007 at 17:27
Originally posted by Kotro Kotro wrote:

I am sorry if I insulted any of you hard-working collabs. It was not my intention. I certainly do not want to imply that you, as volunteers, should devote your all life to PA. And I certainly didn't mean you would be able to receive a band submission and add it 30 minutes later. I understand that the procedure requires a lot of double checking, by a lot of people. And how frustrating it can be to have people constantly breething on your shoulder asking "did you add that band yet?".
 
As some of you might know (although not many, I should expect), I am a bit of a critic when it comes to the fast addition of more known acts whose prog affiliation is sometimes dubious, when older, real prog acts from yesterday and today (some not that unknown at all) are constantly being ignored or left behind, with their addition suspended.
 
Another thing that, in my outsider perspective, annoys me and causes me to make some irreflected comments is the seemingly preferential treatment some bands and members get. From what I can see (and again, I can accept being completely wrong in this case), some bands who enjoy apreciation by some collabs get added more quickly. An example I recall was when a Collab (I apologise, I don't remember who, nor the topic in which it occured - but I am sure he will say who he is, if he reads this) added Roman Bunka 1-2 weeks after he was sugested in that topic by BaldJean, after telling Jean he/she would personaly see to it regarding that adition. Said and done. It is a bit frustrating for people like me to witness this, after investing some time in compiling a honest triple submission of aknowledged prog acts from my country, following all the band submission rules, and not seeing them added after 9 months.
 
So, again I apologise if my comments hurt anyone, but my question remains, this time in another tone: do collabs really need 9 months to read 3 Word pages and listen to 5 mp3 files before adding an aknowleged progressive rock act, when in some cases they have proven they can do it in a matter of weeks?  


you make very valid points... PM'ing you.
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