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emdiar 
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 Posted: September 08 2007 at 09:57 |
I can't agree that prog enjoys more longevity than most genres. 1950s Rock n Roll fans abound to this day, and have been around since long before Prog. Elvis still sells in huge quantities. Grease is still massively popular here in the Netherlands.
I see no truth in the statement that prog "is probably the longest lasting genre in rock history." Ever been to a Beatles fan bash? The best selling band in history have a good 6 or 7 years on prog, and their sales didn't dip massively in the intervening years like prog's did.
Edited by emdiar - September 08 2007 at 09:58
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Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: September 08 2007 at 01:17 |
 BroSpence wrote:
There are plenty of men (not me) that do enjoy Grease, and musicals in their later years of life. Rockabilly, R&B, Blues (father of Rock), Pop Rock, Punk rock, College/Alt/Indie Rock, Metal were all alive and and well during the 80s. Some were fresher than Prog, but others were much older! All musical forms are fashionable. It doesn't really mean they are bad.
Again, guide yourself by general rules, the normal mainstream listener (the vast majority) liosten what is fashion in a certain moment, they forget about the album as soon as it ceases to be piopular, POP AND DISCO WERECDESIGNED TO ACT LIKE THIS.
About Rockabilly, it's more a regional thing, Classic Rock is popular still, but very few bands ascribe to this style, Punk or at least pure Punk, died in a couple of years.
You can't imagine how many bands send their albums to Prog Archives or Progressive Ears asking to be included, that doesn't happen with other genres.
I'm not saying or said that fashion is bad, only pointed that IMO Prog was never a Fashion.
See: DREAM THEATER, ASIA, Genesis, Rush
I believe Dream Theater is Prog Metal band, but most of their fans are Metalheads rather than Progheads, and Metal was popular, so they followed the fate of the main genre, but if you haven't noticed, there's a decline in popularity for this band, they lasted less than most Classic Prog bands.
ASIA was never Prog, so that explains the situation.
Genesis only became a fashion when Hackett left and they went POP, in the Gabriel years they were almost a cult band, almost all their career was fornmed in Colleges and universities while other Prog bands were bbefore big audiences, then they became better known but their fate didn't changed, all The Lamb Tour was played in half empty concert halls, they were not even a fashion during ATOTT and W&W, they became a fashion with ATTW3 and only reached the peak of the charts with Invisible touch that is a 100% POP album.
Rush is not a fashion, Rush is one ofvthe bands wioth bigger and faithful fanbase, as Pink Floyd was in their time.
That is true of many genres. Also Prog's age group is determined in your own post (almost all ages, just like with any genre). Depending on the band Prog could be marketed to any age, as could Britney Spears, Sex Pistols, Charlie Parker. Fashionable items speak to fashionable people. Whether I prefer prog to all else and dress like a business man or a punk has no relevance to the music being fashionable or not. Prog, like every genre is a fashion.
Most popular bands are designed to appeal for different ages, you rarely see a 30 years guy listening Britney, or a businessman listening Punk, neither a Proffessional dressing in white suit and black shirt while dancing Stayin' Alive.
Prog has appeal for every age and economic condition and has survived ptrecisely because was never extremely popular or fashionable.
Fashion can sell poorly and still be fashion.
Then it will last even less
A Nerd is generally the stereotype of the prog world, at least it has been for several years now. That is all stereotypes though.
Yes, it's teh stereotype, but you find teens, College and ubniversity students, young adults, people in their 30's, 40's or 50's listening Prog, as well as you find nerds, bussinesmen, surfers, proffessionals, workers, etc listening Prog.
Something almost exclusive of Prog.
So Prog is anything except not a fashion.
Fashion is designed to last a short time, iof not it's not profitable, in order to launch a new product or new fashion, you need the passt one to vansihm, this doesn't happen with Progg, the most attacks we receiove, the healthier we get.
Prog acts contrary to any definition of Fashion
| Fashion, by definition, changes constantly. The changes may proceed more rapidly than in most other fields of human activity (language, thought, etc). For some, modern fast-paced changes in fashion embody many of the negative aspects of capitalism: it results in waste and encourages people qua consumers to buy things unnecessarily. Other people, especially young people, enjoy the diversity that changing fashion can apparently provide, seeing the constant change as a way to satisfy their desire to experience "new" and "interesting" things. |
As you see, this describes anything but Prog music.
Iván
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Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - September 08 2007 at 01:18
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BroSpence
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Posted: September 08 2007 at 00:01 |
darren wrote:
I know my biggest disappointment in this forum is that I thought prog fans would be more open minded about all forms of music. Some seem to think that if you like any nonprog rock that it somehow diminishes your intellect.
schizoid_man77 wrote:
I respect all music (except gangsta rap), but punk is low on my standards, cause after you've heard one song, you have heard all of punk! Like dean said, It's very narrow, with three chord verse chorus verse songs and twenty nine minuete long albums. Dont deny with that sentence I summed up 75% of punk. |
... that is right if you take a superficail view. |
Superficial is one word you could say about that...
emdiar wrote:
Sorry, but I can't agree that punk is all
about attitude and image . Sure, the pop punk that filled the charts
(Jilted John, the Buzzcocks etc.) were pretty much image based, but
people, I get the impression that your knowledge of the punk movement
is fairly slim. It's no greater than a punk who, having heard his dad's
copy of DSOTM, thinks he knows enough about prog to hold an opinion.
Real Punk is perhaps 10% "attitude and image" and 90% ideology. The
real Punks I know are serious animal rights activists, or squat empty
properties that have been bought by immoral capitalists as investments
and deliberately kept empty for years while people go homeless, or take
to the streets to fight fascists at neo-nazi rallies, supporting
persecuted social groups such as Gays or Jews. Roger Waters may have
put on a "the Wall" show in Berlin a year after the event, but Punks
were railing against it with direct action long before. Really, I don't
know how many punks you know, but when I think "Punk", the last thing
on my mind is an image conscious Greenday fan with a skateboard under
his arm. |
The beginning of your post is totally true and represents exactly what is going on here. However, I am not too fond of the rest of the post where you start talking about the punks you know. The things they do are outstanding, but it doesn't really represent "punk" so to speak. Sure they are rebelling against certain things and fighting for what they believe, but that is more in tune with what the hippies and "youth movement" of the 60s were representative of. Punks in the traditional sense consisted greatly of nihilism. They didn't give a sh*t about you, themselves, their friends, their parents, their bosses, etc. Well actually that was more of the Sex Pistols school. Your friends might be of the Joe Strummer school. He went out and investigated and spoke out against corrupt politicians (Reagan for instance), and things of that nature. Plenty of the original bands were politically and socially based, but it was mostly the fact they didn't give a damn that made them who they are. Punk godfather Iggy Pop made a point back in the day that he made his music because he "didn't give a damn about all the love and peace and sh*t". Anyways I would say punk is about 50/50 ideology and attitude/image. I don't think they are separate either, both go hand in hand. Your friends are activists rather than punks which have been around for a long time, where as punks (when speaking of those in relation to the music genre) have not been around nearly as long.
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
A B Negative wrote:
Prog is also about fashion (see previous post where I mangle a Rush quote).  |
I strongly disagree with the atatement that Prog is a fashion for several reasons:
- Fashions last little, Prog is probably the longer lasting Rock
Genre in history, most of the early movements were dead by the 80's
except Rhythm & Blues, Prog is lasting 4 decades and growing. You
don't see a 40 years guy listening Grease (Theyp probably hide their
first copy in embarrassment), but you find a lot of 50 years guys
buying The Lamb or Relayer because they lost or broke their third copy
of the album.There are plenty of men (not me) that do enjoy Grease, and musicals in their later years of life. Rockabilly, R&B, Blues (father of Rock), Pop Rock, Punk rock, College/Alt/Indie Rock, Metal were all alive and and well during the 80s. Some were fresher than Prog, but others were much older! All musical forms are fashionable. It doesn't really mean they are bad.
- Fashions tend to sell a lot and are extremely profitable, we know that's not the case of Prog.See: DREAM THEATER, ASIA, Genesis, Rush
- Normally fashions are identified with a determined age group with
clothes that match to express their identity, Prog has fans from all
ages and there's never been a particular style or fashion identified
with Prog, at the beginning they used Hippie clothing because this
movement refused to die, iut then there's not a particular or
distinctive external sign for a Progger, just look at the bands, they
dress as they want, and the fans go from school kids wearing what they
want to Proffesionals wearing suits and hard working employees wearing
uniforms.That is true of many genres. Also Prog's age group is determined in your own post (almost all ages, just like with any genre). Depending on the band Prog could be marketed to any age, as could Britney Spears, Sex Pistols, Charlie Parker. Fashionable items speak to fashionable people. Whether I prefer prog to all else and dress like a business man or a punk has no relevance to the music being fashionable or not. Prog, like every genre is a fashion.
- Fashion genres sell a lot in the first months and then decrease to
almost 0 in an average lapse of six moths, if you check the Prog market
behaviour is exactly the opposite, they don't sell particulary better
in the first months than in the next 5 or 10 years. Genesis played
their magnum opus in half empthy theaters, but they achieved their
first Gold Certificate in 1991 or 1992 (not sure), this means they kept
selling an average during 16 years (If not they wouldn't have been
considered by the RIAA), Jethro Tull until a few years ago had a media
audience of 15,000 fans per show, not great but enough to live, they
were never N° 1 in the charts (Except when they were wrongly classified
as Metal by the Grammy Awards) neither ever made a poor show, they kept
the same average since 1969 to 2003 at least., Fashion can sell poorly and still be fashion.
- Fashion genres have a language, look at Psyche and check any Austin
Powers movie, I know it's a joke, but the liguistic quotes are very
accurate, or Rap and the violent language, Punk and their revolutionary
hate discourse, etc. Yo can't tell a Proghead by his way of speaking,
normally is the average Joe, I have friends who still in their 40's
live to surf, stereotypical nerds, Middle Class Proffesional and white
collar employes as well as factory workers, all with their distinctive
language according to other considerations. A Nerd is generally the stereotype of the prog world, at least it has been for several years now. That is all stereotypes though.
So Prog is anything except a fashion. So Prog is anything except not a fashion.
My 2 cents.
Iván |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: September 07 2007 at 14:21 |
A B Negative wrote:
Prog is also about fashion (see previous post where I mangle a Rush quote).  |
I strongly disagree with the atatement that Prog is a fashion for several reasons:
- Fashions last little, Prog is probably the longer lasting Rock Genre in history, most of the early movements were dead by the 80's except Rhythm & Blues, Prog is lasting 4 decades and growing. You don't see a 40 years guy listening Grease (Theyp probably hide their first copy in embarrassment), but you find a lot of 50 years guys buying The Lamb or Relayer because they lost or broke their third copy of the album.
- Fashions tend to sell a lot and are extremely profitable, we know that's not the case of Prog.
- Normally fashions are identified with a determined age group with clothes that match to express their identity, Prog has fans from all ages and there's never been a particular style or fashion identified with Prog, at the beginning they used Hippie clothing because this movement refused to die, iut then there's not a particular or distinctive external sign for a Progger, just look at the bands, they dress as they want, and the fans go from school kids wearing what they want to Proffesionals wearing suits and hard working employees wearing uniforms.
- Fashion genres sell a lot in the first months and then decrease to almost 0 in an average lapse of six moths, if you check the Prog market behaviour is exactly the opposite, they don't sell particulary better in the first months than in the next 5 or 10 years. Genesis played their magnum opus in half empthy theaters, but they achieved their first Gold Certificate in 1991 or 1992 (not sure), this means they kept selling an average during 16 years (If not they wouldn't have been considered by the RIAA), Jethro Tull until a few years ago had a media audience of 15,000 fans per show, not great but enough to live, they were never N° 1 in the charts (Except when they were wrongly classified as Metal by the Grammy Awards) neither ever made a poor show, they kept the same average since 1969 to 2003 at least.,
- Fashion genres have a language, look at Psyche and check any Austin Powers movie, I know it's a joke, but the liguistic quotes are very accurate, or Rap and the violent language, Punk and their revolutionary hate discourse, etc. Yo can't tell a Proghead by his way of speaking, normally is the average Joe, I have friends who still in their 40's live to surf, stereotypical nerds, Middle Class Proffesional and white collar employes as well as factory workers, all with their distinctive language according to other considerations.
So Prog is anything except a fashion.
My 2 cents.
Iván
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A B Negative
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Posted: September 07 2007 at 04:07 |
Seyo wrote:
Some of my most fav artists are considered punk or related to it:
THE CLASH, THE STRANGLERS, SEX PISTOLS, TALKING HEADS, B-52's, JOY DIVISION, THE CURE, THE POLICE, THE RAMONES, THE TELEVISION, PATTI SMITH... to name a few.
Never bought the theory that "punk killed prog", it is all about evolution of musical history... no one killed anyone  |
Someone killed Nancy, don't think it was Sid though!
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"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."
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Seyo
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Posted: September 07 2007 at 04:05 |
Some of my most fav artists are considered punk or related to it:
THE CLASH, THE STRANGLERS, SEX PISTOLS, TALKING HEADS, B-52's, JOY DIVISION, THE CURE, THE POLICE, THE RAMONES, THE TELEVISION, PATTI SMITH... to name a few.
Never bought the theory that "punk killed prog", it is all about evolution of musical history... no one killed anyone |
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A B Negative
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Posted: September 07 2007 at 03:50 |
Prog is also about fashion (see previous post where I mangle a Rush quote).
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"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."
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Greg W
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Posted: September 06 2007 at 15:38 |
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Oh, I lleft one thing out. Punk is also about fashion. We can't forget that.
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emdiar
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Posted: September 06 2007 at 12:08 |
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Sorry, but I can't agree that punk is all about attitude and image . Sure, the pop punk that filled the charts (Jilted John, the Buzzcocks etc.) were pretty much image based, but people, I get the impression that your knowledge of the punk movement is fairly slim. It's no greater than a punk who, having heard his dad's copy of DSOTM, thinks he knows enough about prog to hold an opinion. Real Punk is perhaps 10% "attitude and image" and 90% ideology. The real Punks I know are serious animal rights activists, or squat empty properties that have been bought by immoral capitalists as investments and deliberately kept empty for years while people go homeless, or take to the streets to fight fascists at neo-nazi rallies, supporting persecuted social groups such as Gays or Jews. Roger Waters may have put on a "the Wall" show in Berlin a year after the event, but Punks were railing against it with direct action long before. Really, I don't know how many punks you know, but when I think "Punk", the last thing on my mind is an image conscious Greenday fan with a skateboard under his arm.
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Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact.
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A B Negative
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Posted: September 06 2007 at 04:05 |
To badly paraphrase Rush: if you choose not to have an image, you have still chosen an image! Seriously though, punk has an image which many may find off-putting and can overshadow the music.
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"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."
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stonebeard
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Posted: September 06 2007 at 00:04 |
I don't think that's totally true.
Punk is also about communal experience (ever try to mosh to Yes (except the CTTE verse )) and having fun. I'm not saying prog isn't fun (it is), but being in an audience watching a keyboardist solo for minutes on end is not something I automatically want to do (I'm not that big a fan of standing and not moving around in some way at a concert as it is).
Edited by stonebeard - September 06 2007 at 00:06
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martinprog77
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Posted: September 05 2007 at 23:58 |
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Nothing can last
there are no second chances.
Never give a day away.
Always live for today.
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Greg W
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Posted: September 05 2007 at 16:52 |
Ultimately punk is about image and attitude while prog is about music. Enough said.
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Dean
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Posted: September 05 2007 at 16:41 |
One of the reasons why there is some reticence and even animosity towards Punk is that many people cannot see past the "Punk killed Prog" myth - and a myth it is - one created by Malcolm MacLaren and John Lydon as a publicity stunt to promote THE SEX PISTOLS and leapt on by lazy journalists then perpetrated erroneously ever since by Punks and Proggers alike. To paraphrase Mark Twain, The rumours of Prog's death have been greatly exaggerated.
The Punk Rock of 1976/7 is not the same as the Punk Rock from 1983 onwards - they are practically different genres – there is no relationship or comparison – they may ape the style but it is a mere pastiche. Let’s be honest here - any band formed after 1983 had no impact on the decline of Progressive music – they are more a symptom of the original movements’ ethos rather than its true descendant and by that virtue have more in common with Neo-Prog so should, by all rights, be called Neo Punk.
The narrowness of the (Punk) genre I was referring to in my previous post was not towards the simplicity music, (though I do not deny that it is often an inherent trait) but in the ideology that created it. Punk music was born of nihilism and anarchy, boredom, frustration and anger. The problem there is that success is self-defeating: you cannot kick against the establishment if you are the establishment, you cannot fight the system if you are a part of the system - and that is where the original Punk Rock floundered - they couldn't be angry all the time – as I said, they flared briefly and died.
The second Punk myth, that any bunch of talentless no-hopers could form a band and make it big was soon burst. The bulk of those bands (those that really did not have an ounce of talent or originality) soon lost all enthusiasm once they were not snapped-up for mega-bucks deals like THE SEX PISTOLS had been. The only winners were the Pawn shops who sold them the beaten-up guitars that they could not be bothered to learn to play. (I admit, going back to Alan’s original post, it is fun to thrash out a punk riff now and then, but I’d also add it is even more satisfying creating something a little more intricate even if I have no hope of ever jamming along to a DREAM THEATER CD)
Only a few bands stayed loyal to the cause, (CRASS held out until 1984, however their ideology was more diverse and political than most punk bands), but by 1978 the majority of the original Punk bands were gone, dried empty husks washed up on the beach of time, their life-force spent and exhausted. The rest mutated and evolved, bands like THE DAMMED, THE STRANGLERS and THE CLASH drew influences from other genres and actually progressed, creating concept albums and 17 minute epics, others moved into other genres, some created new genres all of their own, (a few of which we now consolidate as Post Rock and Advant Prog), and others, (such as BAUHAUS, SIOUXSIE & THE BANSHEES, THE MISFITS, THE CURE etc.) who inspired Gothic Rock and hence Gothic Metal, themselves indirectly influenced Prog Metal.
Truth be told, all music is influenced by everything that came before it – Prog influenced Punk by omission, and in turn, Punk has left its mark on Prog.
Now, Ska-punk … that’s a whole different kettle of fish and one worthy of (my) derision.
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What?
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The Miracle
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Posted: September 05 2007 at 15:55 |
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I don't knock punk because it killed prog or anything like that, the only reason I ever knock it is because I think the music blows. Not talking about post-punk, prog crossovers or music with a punk influence, there's plenty of it that I like; such as The Mars Volta is in my top three bands ever and they are punky at times. However plain old punk like Sex Pistols, Ramones, etc as well as modern hardcore and pop punk is *in my humble opinion* complete talentless crap, I just don't enjoy it, along with gangsta rap(and I do like some hip hop) it's a genre I just don't like.
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Evans
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Posted: September 05 2007 at 15:30 |
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To me, one of the most "punk" band out there is the Velvet Underground, and theyt are one of my favourite bands of all time... but then again, i don't lile ELP or Genesis, so i guess you can all disregard my opinion :)
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'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..'
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emdiar
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Posted: September 05 2007 at 15:02 |
As I mentioned in another thread, I have a few good hardcore punk friends who are just crazy about Ozrics, Gong and Hawkwind. One is also a Gryphon, Circulus and Enid fan. These guys are true punks, who have not only wore the mohicans and bondage gear but also lived the lifestyle for the last 25 years, are some of the most musically broad minded people I know. They never dismiss my tastes and I return the favour. OK, they'd never be caught dead listening to ELP, but you'd be amazed if you were to casually browse through their collections, at just how many prog credible bands you might find.
My own favourite Punk band is Conflict. Their "Ungovernable Force" album makes the hair stand up on my arms.
Here's a Conflict lyric about the Punk movement.
A PISS IN THE OCEAN
Punk played it's own important role in the fight against oppression
Aired awareness, new opinions, destroyed formerly accepted obsessions
Right out the window went stale traditions, false morals blinded hope
Respect for authority joined them; we made them a standing joke
We said, "f**k off" smarmy popstar sh*ts portraying images of a perfect world
Smearing a happy, clean face on reality, "it's the Queens Jubilee…" go to hell
Refusing to be puppets with the promise of a future, there is no future
So never mind the bollocks, because anarchy in the UK suits us
The public screamed in outcry, demanded immediate termination
The "scum of the earth" has raised its voice "How could they do this to our nation?"
The media tried to destroy us, stop the 'poor mans' rock invasion
The exposure only helped us reveal their hopeless situation
Gaining in momentum and numbers, we needed spokesmen
And that came from four people from the real world, just like the rest of us
We now had a voice, an alternative, our message getting louder
Nothing now could stop us rising up to meet their fast advancing challenge
But when the challenge came, they crumbled, as the four proved easy prey
For the states clever weapon money proved too tempting once again
Big b*****d business cheque books opened up and then swallowed
Those leeches sucked hard slyly, and we couldn't believe the scenes that followed
Punk shops - " roll up! Buy your rebellion here!"
Badges, posters, bondage, books, colouring for your hair
Like sheep they flocked to buy punk rock, a part of the new threat!
The country laughed and screamed "punk flop"; it now seemed punk was dead!
They toured the lands to Disneyland We stood and could only watch
And ripped the state apart As they took everything we stood for
Destroyed the music status quo And made a mockery of it
And created a new start The four feeding finance straight back
Their jet set pads, the sunny land Into the system they supposedly despised
The songs of train robbings What was once the black flag of anarchy
It's just all more money in the bank Was now the colours of the Union Jack
So come on boys and girls and sing
The movement, punk rock, who cares? We are just another band; they were just another band
Direct action is what achieves change, not miming to words, how much longer must we sing the same old song?
Crawling from the mess that they'd left standing as our future
We realised we needed 'no one' to mouth off our message for us
Told big business to take a running jump, went back underground where we started
The tribe then split, as some stayed behind to mourn
(1986)
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Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact.
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Raff
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Posted: September 05 2007 at 14:25 |
salmacis wrote:
^Yes, that does exist too. Some punk musicians have commented on how notoriously narrow-minded a certain contingent of punk followers are, where if a song goes over a certain length they won't listen to it. I do think though that the music journalists tend to be more guilty of this than the musicians or fans, though.
But in all fairness, I've seen similar things happen here and other forums, where shorter songs are sometimes dismissed in favour of longer ones. Prog and punk aren't so very dissimilar after all!! |
I think musicians are in general much more open-minded than most of their fans. As to music journalists, they are very often the ones who create and foster false myths, such as punk musicians' hatred of prog, or the other way around. Remember that John Lydon's infamous "I hate Pink Floyd" T-shirt was nothing but a clever marketing ploy (The Great Rock'n'Roll Swindle, anyone?), and that later he admitted to being into VDGG and King Crimson. Anyway, in my humble opinion, many of the historic "punk" bands were really something else from a musical point of view - or, at the very least, their punk stage didn't last long at all (see The Clash, The Stranglers, Siouxsie and the Banshees, and others). Nowadays, people like The Mars Volta are showing that you can have punk influences in prog, and that they are not at all detrimental.... Personally, I've never been into punk, but I like quite a few new wave bands. I also think that open-mindedness is a must for anyone who really loves music.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: September 05 2007 at 14:04 |
Jimbo wrote:
I understand what you're saying, but the problem is that usually when someone knocks the punk genre here, they often haven't got a clue as to what they're talking about. If you've given the genre a fair try, and noticed that this is not for me, then it's absolutely OK to even detest punk, but most people tend to base their opinions on stereotypes and aren't even willing to try.
Well, I agree, there's people that talks about bands they never heard, even Prog, I just seen a post saying STYX is pure POP, surely that person has not heard the debut album, STYX II or The Serpent is Rising.
A lot of times people say "Hey Kansas is AOR and shouldn't be here" but later they admit they haven't heard anything except Dust in the Wind, so they base themselves in what they heard other people as little informed as them have previously said.
About two weeks ago, we had a reunion in a house of of a Pink Floyd fan to pass DVD's in order to get familiar with Prog bands, I showed them Device Voice Drum by Kansas and 7 out of 8 (I am the eight) were surprised, they thought Kansas was something like Boston, but when they saw Icarus and specially Miracles Out of Nowhere, they just were not able to believe, 4 of them bought the DVD in the next 48 hours.
Some people have told me how can I like Can Utility and the Coastliners much more than Suppers Ready if the second one is a long epic and the other one barely passes the 5 minutes, it's absurd to rate a song based exclusively in it's lenght or complexity, simply you like it or not.
Get used to it, people talks without ever haven't heard anything.
I have no doubt in my mind that this is also true for most punk fans when they knock our beloved genre, but that shouldn't be used as an excuse.
No, of course not, you can remember when about two years ago Karny and other members made a blitzkrieg writing Punk was crap in the Punk77 Forum, we all condemned that, because there is no reason to attack anybody else for what they do in their forum, and if they do something wrong, we shouldn't copy them.Open-mindedness doesn't have anything to do with liking every single genre, it has everything to do with being honest enough to give every genre a chance. 
I understand your position, it's cioherent, but lately when you say tou don't like Punk or Rap or hip Hop, there's always perople saying you are an arrogant close minded because you don't gave Rap a chance (for example).
Every person is a different universe, I don't even believe that a person who likes only Prog is close minded, it's just his/her personal taste neither a person who likes everything is necesarilly open minded, sometimes he is, others just don't have a defined taste.
Iván
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salmacis
Forum Senior Member
Content Addition
Joined: April 10 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3928
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Posted: September 05 2007 at 10:04 |
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Actually, I've never heard many punk songs with sex-related lyrics; it's a topic that seldom crops up in the genre, in my experience. There's all that dumb stuff like Blink 182 etc. but I imagine most punk fans detest that sort of thing anyway as much as we probably do here.
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Don't knock the (punk) rock!
