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Barla View Drop Down
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Points: 4309 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2007 at 23:53
Well done, Iván, now there isn't any confusion about this topic! Clap

Edited by Barla - August 21 2007 at 23:54
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Points: 1049 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2007 at 04:19
Thanks for taking the time to explain things Ivan  Tongue
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Points: 5851 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2007 at 19:24
Great, Ivŕn!

Prog Related, in every case is Music Progressive, not Progressive Music. Change the order...  Changes all!!! 
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Points: 1320 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2007 at 16:42
Without intention to disrespect Ivan's hard worked, I am still not clear about definitions of PP and PR.
 
These were the old ones:
 

Proto-Prog

Rock Bands in existence prior to 1969 that influenced the development of progressive rock.

Prog Related:

A wide subgenre that encompasses two kinds of bands/artist, that either consist of progressive artist that strayed away from their progressive roots into mainstream rock or were influenced by progressive rock.
 
Now you say again that inter alia prog related bands are those who influnced development of prog rock. But that was already covered by proto-prog? Or am I missing something?Confused
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2007 at 17:02
Originally posted by Seyo Seyo wrote:

Without intention to disrespect Ivan's hard worked, I am still not clear about definitions of PP and PR.
 
These were the old ones:
 

Proto-Prog

Rock Bands in existence prior to 1969 that influenced the development of progressive rock.

Prog Related:

A wide subgenre that encompasses two kinds of bands/artist, that either consist of progressive artist that strayed away from their progressive roots into mainstream rock or were influenced by progressive rock.
 
Now you say again that inter alia prog related bands are those who influnced development of prog rock. But that was already covered by proto-prog? Or am I missing something?Confused
 
I understand it, mostly because none of the sub-genres or categories is really very clear.
 
IMO Proto Prog is mainly the link between Psyche and Prog, bands that had achieved all the requirements to be considered fully Prog, but not developed them yet, in Prog Archives Proto Prog are all bands that influenced Prog before 1969.
 
Again IMHO this is not correct, this is too wide and ambiguous, but not my call.
 
To see how the definition should be understood, you only need to check all the Proto Prog bands, you will discover that except The Who each and every Protto Prog band has Psychedellic elements.
 
Now Prog related is created to be confusing, because is not an homogenous sub-genre but a wide category that groups  dfferent bands with different roots and influences that probably have nothing in common except that they:
  1. Are not Prog bands but
  2. Fall in one of this three characteristics
    1. Influenced Progressive Rock bands, or
    2. Were influenced by Prog bands or
    3. Have some Prog elements.

So I understand your confusion.

Iván
            
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Points: 24429 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2007 at 12:10
Sorry for being rushed, but I am writing from a library (no Internet at home yet). Anyway, kudos to Ivan for the great new definition - though I have to say I don't think it'll stop people from whining, and for a very simple reason. There are people here who simply
REFUSE to understand that PP and PR are NOT Prog, because if they did they would be forced to stop attacking others every time a controversial new addition is made.

Sorry for being so disillusioned about it, but this is what over two years of PA have taught meCry...
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Points: 5851 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2007 at 05:03
Originally posted by Ghost Rider Ghost Rider wrote:

Sorry for being rushed, but I am writing from a library (no Internet at home yet). Anyway, kudos to Ivan for the great new definition - though I have to say I don't think it'll stop people from whining, and for a very simple reason. There are people here who simply
REFUSE to understand that PP and PR are NOT Prog, because if they did they would be forced to stop attacking others every time a controversial new addition is made.

Sorry for being so disillusioned about it, but this is what over two years of PA have taught meCry...


this is fundamental. Proper for this reason I think that the 60's production of Manfred mann is a great example of Proto Prog. But proper for this reason I think that Wishbone Ash and Rainbow wouldn't be badly in the Heavy Prog. 
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Points: 57 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2007 at 22:23
Excelente
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2007 at 00:40
Originally posted by Mandrakeroot Mandrakeroot wrote:



this is fundamental. Proper for this reason I think that the 60's production of Manfred mann is a great example of Proto Prog. But proper for this reason I think that Wishbone Ash and Rainbow wouldn't be badly in the Heavy Prog. 
 
Mandy, already on another thread Easy Livin has explained the new sub-genres are only for 100% Prog bands from ART ROCK.
 
Art Rock has splitted to be more easy to manage but this doesn't turn bands that have been cataliogued and approved by the Adm Team as Prog Related or Proto Prog into full Prog bands.
 
Wishbone Ash and Rainbow are heavy yes, BUT NOT PROG AT ALL, the fact that Art Rock split, doesn't change that.
 
Iván
            
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Points: 1320 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2007 at 03:58
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Seyo Seyo wrote:

Without intention to disrespect Ivan's hard worked, I am still not clear about definitions of PP and PR.
 
These were the old ones:
 

Proto-Prog

Rock Bands in existence prior to 1969 that influenced the development of progressive rock.

Prog Related:

A wide subgenre that encompasses two kinds of bands/artist, that either consist of progressive artist that strayed away from their progressive roots into mainstream rock or were influenced by progressive rock.
 
Now you say again that inter alia prog related bands are those who influnced development of prog rock. But that was already covered by proto-prog? Or am I missing something?Confused
 
I understand it, mostly because none of the sub-genres or categories is really very clear.
 
IMO Proto Prog is mainly the link between Psyche and Prog, bands that had achieved all the requirements to be considered fully Prog, but not developed them yet, in Prog Archives Proto Prog are all bands that influenced Prog before 1969.
 
Again IMHO this is not correct, this is too wide and ambiguous, but not my call.
 
To see how the definition should be understood, you only need to check all the Proto Prog bands, you will discover that except The Who each and every Protto Prog band has Psychedellic elements. (I would add blues elements too)
 
Now Prog related is created to be confusing, because is not an homogenous sub-genre but a wide category that groups  dfferent bands with different roots and influences that probably have nothing in common except that they:
  1. Are not Prog bands but
  2. Fall in one of this three characteristics
    1. Influenced Progressive Rock bands (I guess this means after 1969?), or
    2. Were influenced by Prog bands or
    3. Have some Prog elements.

So I understand your confusion.

Iván
 
Thank you for elaborating again!
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