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Ivan_Melgar_M 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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 Topic: New Definition for Prog Related
Posted: August 21 2007 at 13:03 |
As promised to Bob (Easy Livin’), a couple of weeks ago I wrote a new definition for Prog Related that has already been approved by the Adm Team and thanks to the efforts of Bob:
Prog Related
Progressive rock is not a separate universe in music, it’s a genre among many others, a voice in the chorus and as part of a biggest scenario has points of contact with other musical genres.
Prog Related is the category that groups bands and artists that:
- Without being 100% Prog, received clear MUSICAL influence of this genre.
- Are widely accepted as MUSICALLY influential to the development of Progressive Rock by the community,
- Blend characteristics of Progressive Rock with mainstream elements creating a final product that despite not being part of the genre is evident that are close to Prog.
We specify the word MUSICAL because simple performance of a determined instrument in a Prog or mainstream band is not justification enough to include an artist, no matter how virtuoso he/she may be, Prog Archives has to evaluate their compositional work because the music is what determines the characteristics of a band or an artist.
Prog Related bands are not considered part of the genre but they have contributed in some form in the development of Progressive Rock, the inclusion of a band is exceptional and only after verifying that it’s a contribution for the better understanding of Prog among the members and visitors instead of a source of confusion for the community.
Iván Melgar Morey
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I tried to emphasize certain requirements to be added like:
- Being MUSICALLY influential to Prog: Not technical, not making a great performance but making music which is the reason why we are here, there’s also an additional requirement, being WIDELY ACCEPTED as influential, I know this may be subjecticve, but we can't avoid all teh aleatory elememnts from a definition...Buit be honest with yourselfs even if you publicly don't accept it, we all know when a band is widely accepted as prog and when not despite all the arguments.
- Being MUSICALLY influenced by Prog.
- Blend Prog and mainstream Characteristics.
It’s also emphasized the RXCEPTIONAL characteristic of an addition of a band to Prog Related,. It’s not our main purpose, not even the second main purpose, it’s exceptional and left to the criteria of the Administrators Team.
To end it’s also important to notice that we recognize a Prog Related band IS NOT A PROGRESSIVE BAND and for that reason shouldn’t cause problems among some members (including myself) because it doesn’t affect the integrity and/or coherence of Progressive Rock.
Thanks Easy Livin’ for your help.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - August 21 2007 at 13:21
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el böthy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 27 2005
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 6336
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Posted: August 21 2007 at 15:09 |
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I approve it... so you know it´s good jejejeje
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"You want me to play what, Robert?"
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rileydog22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 8844
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Posted: August 21 2007 at 15:15 |
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You're such a lawyer, Ivan!
Excellent definition, should clear up a lot of the confusion that happens when guys like Led Zeppelin or the Who get added.
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sleeper
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
Status: Offline
Points: 16449
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Posted: August 21 2007 at 15:23 |
I agree, makes PR very clear cut. Unforunatly there will still be people complaining. 
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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cookieacquired
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 23 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 911
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Posted: August 21 2007 at 15:24 |
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Very nicely phrased, this new definition should end some squabbles
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MikeEnRegalia
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Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
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Points: 21206
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Posted: August 21 2007 at 16:03 |
Nice ... here's a few suggestions though: - It should be called "category" instead of "genre" ... it's really not a genre of music. - it could be made more clear that the three conditions are alternatives ... most prog-related bands only satisfy one of them, and people might think that's not enough. 
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ProgBagel
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2819
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Posted: August 21 2007 at 16:08 |
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Great as always Ivan!
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Chicapah
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 14 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8238
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Posted: August 21 2007 at 16:34 |
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Good work, Ivan!
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"Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: August 21 2007 at 16:41 |
I thought this genre was for musicians related to other musicians in Prog. I bet its a hell of a jam around the holidays.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: August 21 2007 at 16:58 |
Mike en Regalía wrote:
| Nice ... here's a few suggestions though:
Always welcomed Mike
- It should be called "category" instead of "genre" ... it's really not a genre of music.
If you read the definition, I never called Prog Related a sub-genre, as a fact read the third line of the definition:
Definition:
Prog Related is the category that groups bands and artists that:
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Any mention of the word GENRE is referred to Progressive Rock, if it was referred to Prog Related it would say Sub-Genre.
- it could be made more clear that the three conditions are alternatives ... most prog-related bands only satisfy one of them, and people might think that's not enough.
That’s a good idea, as in the definitive version of Art Rock definition I wrote (Already deleted), I included the words OR in two places, I will ask Bob to do so, like this:
Definition should say:
Prog Related is the category that groups bands and artists that:
- Without being 100% Prog, received clear MUSICAL influence of this genre, OR
- Are widely accepted as MUSICALLY influential to the development of Progressive Rock by the community, OR
- Blend characteristics of Progressive Rock with mainstream elements creating a final product that despite not being part of the genre is evident that are close to Prog.
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I believe that would solve the slight problem, I will ask Bob to make the the addiotion of the two words, don’t know how I could forget them.
Iván
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Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - August 21 2007 at 17:00
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MikeEnRegalia
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Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
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Points: 21206
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Posted: August 21 2007 at 17:04 |
^ sorry about the genre/category thing ... I misread the first sentence of your definition (I read " Prog-Related is not a separate universe in music, it’s a genre among many others"  )
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: August 21 2007 at 17:07 |
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The new one's far better than the old one! Good work.
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Melomaniac
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 07 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 4088
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Posted: August 21 2007 at 17:10 |
Now : can we talk about The Police's inclusion in prog-related ???
They influenced quite a few prog acts in the 80's most notably Rush (Vital SIgns, Signals and Grace Under Pressure).
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"One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: August 21 2007 at 17:12 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
^ sorry about the genre/category thing ... I misread the first sentence of your definition (I read "Prog-Related is not a separate universe in music, it’s a genre among many others" )
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Don't worry, this are visual problems proper of iour advanced age 
Thanks to you and the other members for the support.
Iván
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10652
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Posted: August 21 2007 at 17:17 |
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Nice definition, I guess this is where Jimi Hendrix and David Bowie belong.
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Rivertree
Special Collaborator
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Joined: March 22 2006
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 17629
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Posted: August 21 2007 at 17:21 |
Well done, Ivan 
This is a good example for improving our site - and finally a good example for a collective effort 
Edited by Rivertree - August 21 2007 at 17:22
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andu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 27 2006
Location: Romania
Status: Offline
Points: 3089
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Posted: August 21 2007 at 19:29 |
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I liked the old definition, but this is even better, because of the explained reasons. Could we somewhere keep the old definition, for the record? Like, in the "Documents" page.
Good work.
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Yorkie X
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 04 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 1049
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Posted: August 21 2007 at 23:00 |
If prog related is not a Genre ... whats it doing here ?  (would prefer it if it was gone actually)
Edited by Yorkie X - August 21 2007 at 23:11
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rileydog22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 8844
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Posted: August 21 2007 at 23:17 |
Melomaniac wrote:
Now : can we talk about The Police's inclusion in prog-related ???
They influenced quite a few prog acts in the 80's most notably Rush (Vital SIgns, Signals and Grace Under Pressure). |
Except that Rush wasn't a prog act in the 80's.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: August 21 2007 at 23:44 |
Yorkie X wrote:
If prog related is not a Genre ... whats it doing here ? (would prefer it if it was gone actually)
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A genre or more precisely a Prog SUB-GENRE groups bands with a similar sound or common root of influence, that's the case of Symphonic, Fusion or Neo Prog, in a perfect world we would have only sub-genres.
But this is art and art is far from structural perfection, ASIA or STYX made their music iinfluenced by Prog bands but they never were part of a defined SUB-GENRE, but they must be mentioned.
But as Asia we have bands in the same situation with other mainstream influences that may be AOR, POP, Disco, Rock & Roll, etc, and we need to place them somewhere.
So being all so different,we can't create a sub-genre wide enough to contain the elements present in all of them, the only solution is a category that groups bands with only something in common, they are somehow related to ´prog despite their different backgrounds.
If you don't like it, you have 20 sub-genres to investighate and nearly 12,000 albums in other sub.genres, so you can expend a lifetime not having the need to visit Prog Related once.
If we understand that the addition of a Prog Related band is exceptional and not a priority, there should not be problems.
And believe me, I am, the member who has probably disagreed with more Prog Related inclusions, but I would be blind to reality if I didn't knew we need this category becase some non 100% Prog bands were so important for the genre or are so related that have to be mentioned.
Cheers.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - August 22 2007 at 00:10
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New Definition for Prog Related
