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Dean 
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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 Posted: July 30 2007 at 13:27 |
 StyLaZyn wrote:
Nothing is more non-progressive than stagnation, which many Prog bands are guilty of. Not moving forward with music ideas or new technologies. But even with that being the case, new releases that are not progressive, in the evolution sense, are still found to be acceptable. |
That's an interesting point, and one I've heard before. However, I do not feel that an artist has to progress from one ablum to the next to be progressive - if their first album was progressive in style and their second is pretty much the same they are still progressive because the music they play is progressive (in style).
Of course it does not follow that i would be happy with that situation, I would much prefer the artist to grow and evolve and didn't use the same magic formula, otherwise they are in danger of becoming the Status Quo of Prog. and to that end there would be little reason to buy the second album. (no offense to SQ btw - they evolved more than most bands on the planet ever have, they just hit the plateau very early on)
StyLaZyn wrote:
What is rarely accepted here is Prog musicians writing "Pop" tunes. That is a shame. The Prog elite enter the picture and seem to insist nothing outside of Prog is good which is just plain wrong.
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I have no complaints about Pop music - a good Pop tune is as difficult to write as a Prog epic - better still if the artist can instill the essence of Prog into a 3 minute single. 
StyLaZyn wrote:
I will listen to music I enjoy, Prog or not, and feel happy the artist decided to create the music. If it makes you feel good, how can it be bad? |
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What?
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SoundsofSeasons
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2007
Location: Arizona -- USA
Status: Offline
Points: 221
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Posted: July 30 2007 at 13:34 |
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Has anyone thought of the fact that there are a lot of younger progheads born in the late 80's or later, and that they might enjoy the post 80's prog as much or more than the older stuff? Remember, people like what they are used to, and for youngsters like myself Yes, Genesis, and King Crimson don't exactly sound like what i hear around me or have heard around me since...like...birth. But what is great prog, in my opinion, that really speaks to younger prog heads like myself is Porcupine Tree. And with their album of this year, Fear of a Blank Planet, you can tell they are trying to reach the younger teenage demographic. I believe bands like this are going to go very far because just like you older dudes we need a teenage hero as well.
Edited by SoundsofSeasons - July 30 2007 at 13:36
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1 Chronicles 13:7-9
Then David and all Israel played music before God with all their might, with singing, on harps, on stringed instruments, on tambourines, on cymbals, and with trumpets.
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: July 30 2007 at 13:35 |
StyLaZyn wrote:
Nothing is more non-progressive than stagnation, which many Prog bands are guilty of. Not moving forward with music ideas or new technologies.
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I think a great band can get away with maybe three releases that sound pretty much the same if they are all high quality. After that, it becomes monotonous and we demand more. But I don't think every single album has to progress rapidly from the previous one for a band to be called progressive.
StyLaZyn wrote:
If it makes you feel good, how can it be bad?
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Guess you're a heavy drug user then, eh? 
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
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Posted: July 30 2007 at 13:47 |
Vibrationbaby wrote:
Here we go round the mulberry bush the old what is prog what isn`t prog, old prog vs new prog and on and on and on and on. When will this madness end?????? Just because of this thread I`m going to review Tubular Bells .
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Is Tubular bells prog then? 
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#1floydfan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 21 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 153
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Posted: July 30 2007 at 13:48 |
you know posting stuff like this just gets you ridiculed well maybe if you didn't insult the site and just about every one on it in genral you might have a good argument 
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mgallard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 27 2005
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 155
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Posted: July 30 2007 at 14:35 |
magnus wrote:
Is it regressive thinking Trespass, Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot and Selling England by the Pound generally are far superior to all the other Genesis albums?
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Yes
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
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Posted: July 30 2007 at 15:50 |
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
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Posted: July 30 2007 at 15:51 |
Easy Livin wrote:
Vibrationbaby wrote:
Here we go round the mulberry bush the old what is prog what isn`t prog, old prog vs new prog and on and on and on and on. When will this madness end?????? Just because of this thread I`m going to review Tubular Bells.
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Is Tubular bells prog then? |
Check out my review .
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Dim
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 17 2007
Location: Austin TX
Status: Offline
Points: 6890
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Posted: July 30 2007 at 16:27 |
mgallard wrote:
magnus wrote:
Is it regressive thinking Trespass, Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot and Selling England by the Pound generally are far superior to all the other Genesis albums? |
Yes
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Not if it's true
Well, what I said earlier was a bit brutal, but it's true that the 80's pop music by "prog" artists isnt prog. It seems some of you still think that Big generator is progressive rock just because the album was made by a FORMER prog band. If the music you are making isnt Progresive, than it's not progressive.
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266
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Posted: July 30 2007 at 16:46 |
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 BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
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Posted: July 30 2007 at 16:54 |
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The classic one. I just wrote it. It`s more of an observation than a review. I`m listening to TB II now. Even though Mike beat it to death ( and still is beating it to death ) I still love it. It had a lot of growth potential although I don`t know whether or not he realized it back in`73.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: July 30 2007 at 17:08 |
mgallard wrote:
magnus wrote:
Is it regressive thinking Trespass, Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot and Selling England by the Pound generally are far superior to all the other Genesis albums? |
Yes
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Then I'm a Regressive fan and not ashamed of, for me Genesis ceased to exist the moment Steve Hackett left the band.
But just one question....Since when Progressive Rock has the slightest relation with evolution, change or Progress?
Iván
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: July 30 2007 at 17:16 |
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^ since 1969
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What?
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1800iareyay
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2492
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Posted: July 30 2007 at 19:41 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
schizoid_man77 wrote:
I cant agree at all with you.
We give 90125, calling all stations, holidays in eden bad ratings because...
It's not prog! |
No, Prog has little to do Schizoid, we rate them low because in the opinion of the vast majority THESE ALBUMS ARE BAD!!!!!!!
The Grand Illusion or A New World Record are not Prog, but both are great albums, and people rate them with 3 or 4 stars, some even with 5 (Even when 5 would be against the guidelines).
There's great music outside Prog but there's also some horrendous music inside Prog.
Iván |
You and I express the same sentiments Ivan.
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mgallard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 27 2005
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 155
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Posted: July 30 2007 at 19:49 |
1800iareyay wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
schizoid_man77 wrote:
I cant agree at all with you.
We give 90125, calling all stations, holidays in eden bad ratings because...
It's not prog! |
No, Prog has little to do Schizoid, we rate them low because in the opinion of the vast majority THESE ALBUMS ARE BAD!!!!!!!
The Grand Illusion or A New World Record are not Prog, but both are great albums, and people rate them with 3 or 4 stars, some even with 5 (Even when 5 would be against the guidelines).
There's great music outside Prog but there's also some horrendous music inside Prog.
Iván |
You and I express the same sentiments Ivan. |
Ahhh the typical progsnobbishness, just because your taste is limited to prog, doesn't make the rest of the music bad... poor shortsighted beings. Widen your tastes, certainly "Calling All Stations" is much better than most of the music out there, though of course there is better too, but even so, it certainly is in the top third of the lot. M.
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1800iareyay
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2492
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Posted: July 30 2007 at 19:53 |
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^ why did you quote all of that when only the first quote pertains to your post. Ivan said he does not like the albums because they are bad, not because of proggishness, a feeling I mentioned a few posts before Ivan, hence my quote.
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MadcapLaughs84
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 21 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 658
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Posted: July 30 2007 at 19:59 |
Rocktopus wrote:
Its when progbands tries to become more accessible they become unlistenable to me. Then I'd much rather choose listening to real popgroups like ABBA or The Carpenters. |
Amen, reverend
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Ghandi 2
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 17 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1494
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Posted: July 30 2007 at 20:20 |
mgallard wrote:
1800iareyay wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
schizoid_man77 wrote:
I cant agree at all with you.
We give 90125, calling all stations, holidays in eden bad ratings because...
It's not prog! |
No, Prog has little to do Schizoid, we rate them low because in the opinion of the vast majority THESE ALBUMS ARE BAD!!!!!!!
The Grand Illusion or A New World Record are not Prog, but both are great albums, and people rate them with 3 or 4 stars, some even with 5 (Even when 5 would be against the guidelines).
There's great music outside Prog but there's also some horrendous music inside Prog.
Iván |
You and I express the same sentiments Ivan. |
Ahhh the typical progsnobbishness, just because your taste is limited to prog, doesn't make the rest of the music bad... poor shortsighted beings.
Widen your tastes, certainly "Calling All Stations" is much better than most of the music out there, though of course there is better too, but even so, it certainly is in the top third of the lot.
M.
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You completely missed the point of his post.
I try to do better than merely the "top third"; however, I cannot verify your statement because I have never heard Calling All Stations and I never will. In any case, I genuinely do not like almost all pop music so this really doesn't matter, but I would submit that Calling All Stations is probably bad pop music.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: July 30 2007 at 20:31 |
mgallard wrote:
Ahhh the typical progsnobbishness, just because your taste is limited to prog, doesn't make the rest of the music bad... poor shortsighted beings.
Widen your tastes, certainly "Calling All Stations" is much better than most of the music out there, though of course there is better too, but even so, it certainly is in the top third of the lot.
M.
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Mgallard.....Have you read our posts before replying?
If so, haven't you read that the first thing I say and that 1800iareyay echoes is that (and I quote myself) There's great music outside Prog but there's also some horrendous music inside Prog.
Do you want me to explain this simple phrase again?
I'm a fan of The Who, The Cranberries, early REM, Meatloaf, Fleetwood Mac (The pop incarnation of Buckingham and Nicks, not the artsy Peter Green's), Bob Geldoff and the Boomtown Rats, Jackson Browne, Grand Funk Railroad, Louis Armstrong, etc.
If I don't like three men Genesis is not because it's POP, I like good POP (Read my reply to Schizoid), it's because IMHO is terrible POP, boring, predictable, unimaginative, mediocre, lack of bright and quality, it's my opinion and I believe I'm entitled to it.
I don't care if CAS is better than most of the albums out there, i don't go for the lesser evil, I don't listen the consolation prize, I try to listen what according to my taste is the best, I like great Jazz, Pop, Rock, Prog, Classical, etc.
I enjoy Don't Stop or Sara by Fleetwood Mac, but Mama or Who Dunnit? make me want to vomit and CAS simply leaves me cold, IT'S MY TASTE.
I don't check the charts to see if a band is in the 3/4 or 7/9 of the top, if I like it i buy it and listen it even if the critic considers the band crap, if not i don't listen it as I didn't cared about Thriller when it was N° 1, it's my hard earned money and and I believe I'm entitled to spend it in what I like.
Prog is my favorite genre, I don't hide it and I'm not embarrassed of it, by the contrary, but my taste is not limited to Prog either.
Before you give arrogant opinions about us being snob without even having enough comprehension to understand what we wrote, read again make a concentration effort (It may hurt if not used to ), think it and only then reply.
I believe everything Genesis did after Hackett left is bad, not because it's POP because ATTW3 and Duke were Prog albums, I believe it's bad because they lost all the imagination and released a sub-standardt product.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - July 30 2007 at 20:48
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Proletariat
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 30 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1882
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Posted: July 30 2007 at 20:45 |
mgallard wrote:
Ahhh the typical progsnobbishness, just because your taste is limited to prog, doesn't make the rest of the music bad... poor shortsighted beings.
Widen your tastes, certainly "Calling All Stations" is much better than most of the music out there, though of course there is better too, but even so, it certainly is in the top third of the lot.
M.
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it may be in YOUR "top third of the lot" but to tell the truth there is NO Genesis of any period in my top third, so what its just taste. I like a lot of pop, just not that particular pop. Ben Gibbard is one of my favourites, so Death Cab for Cutie and The Postal Servace get as much airtime in my house as any prog ever does.
Edited by Proletariat - July 30 2007 at 20:46
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who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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