Uncomfortable truths

First of all, I want to apologise in advance if this post gets a bit too long. As many of you know, I've been away from the forums for over three months, and at some point I thought I'd never come back. Obviously, there were serious reasons for that - I will touch upon some of them here, though I wish to reassure everyone (especially my former fellow Admins) that I have no intention whatsoever to start a flame war or anything like that. What I really want, though, is to provide some food for thought as concerns the direction PA has been taking over the past few months.

I decided to leave the site in mid-April due to the uproar caused by my addition of a certain PR band.  Many controversial acts have been added over the years by various members - I only added two, after careful consideration and the approval of both the owners and the other Admins, but unfortunately, in both cases the backlash was so vicious as to drive me away from the boards for a while. I may be more sensitive than the average person, but in both instances the reaction of some members was truly excessive, and bordered on the frankly insulting.

We should remember that, besides being a music site, PA is first and foremost a community, where people of different ages and backgrounds converge because of a common interest, then form lasting friendships, and in some cases (like mine) even something more. We're talking about the human element here - about people who may have to deal with all kinds of problems and difficult situations in their 'real' life, and who don't need any additional hassles in the time they devote to the things they love. In my particular case, it was one of those difficult times. Besides, I admit to being very sensitive to what I see as lack of recognition of my contribution, or being remembered only as the person responsible for a couple of PR additions, as controversial as they may have been.

Anyway, far too many people here think the biggest problem on this site are the notorious Proto-Prog and Prog-Related categories. In my very humble opinion, they are wrong. Those who go around flogging the same dead horse, repeating the old, worn out "X are 10,000 times more prog than Y, yet they are not here", or simply "if X are here, why not Y?", slamming some new addition just because they don't like it, or because one of their favourites is being kept out, seem to be forgetting a few, very simple facts:

1. Prog, like all music, is art - and art is highly subjective. We're not talking of an equation we can use to determine the prog quotient of an act. What is prog for me may not be such for someone else.

2. PP and PR are here because the owners want them to be here. This may sound unfair, but it is the truth. We may not always agree with their policy, but we should remember that, as long as they own the site, they call the shots, and we are their guests.  If we are unhappy with some aspects of the site, instead of tearing each other apart (especially at SC level), we should write honestly and openly to the owners and suggest changes. Nothing will ever change if all we do is bicker and put each other down in the Collabs Zone - or, even worse, in the main forum, setting a very bad example for other members.

3. I may be excessively open-minded when it comes to music, but I don't see any reason to overreact as many people do every time a controversial act is added. I know other prog sites, and they are often much more inclusive than PA. I suggest you take a look around to see whether I'm telling the truth or not.

4. It would be good to remember that many of those acts have been added because many members (including Collabs) were asking for them. I suggest you use the search function and look at how many threads were started in the past few months clamouring for The Who's inclusion. Then, PP and PR additions are carefully screened and assessed by the Admin team:  they don't happen overnight, and I am in a position to know.

5. Additions made as retaliation for other additions don't look very good in my eyes. And I'll stop at that.

That said, I'll agree that the current way in which PP and PR are handled is detrimental rather than beneficial. In particular, PR acts are lumped together without any real mention of their relation to prog (whether as influential or influenced), with little-known acts rubbing shoulders with some of the giants of rock. However, implementing change in a constructive way takes some effort, and we all known that criticising is much easier than getting down to work.

My worries about the site concern other aspects than those two categories, though: the overbearing presence of annoying, sometimes tasteless ads; the endless recycling of the same old topics in the forums; the alarming trend towards negative threads, or those which are based around superlatives, comparatives or the word "favourite"; the lack of true cooperation among Collabs; the poor standards of many reviews, and the continuing presence of the totally useless ratings without reviews - which in turn is related to the excessive importance given to the Top 100.

HT (Bhikkhu) probably read my mind from afar when he started his thread about bringing lesser-known acts to the site users' attention. In my opinion, this is the way to go - privileging positive action instead of  indulging in endless, sterile debate around the same, worn-out arguments, which leads only to friction and discontent. Hopefully, other members will follow his example.

As far as I'm concerned, I just wish someone would stop for a while and read my words, and perhaps see some wisdom in them.

Welcome back Raff 

I'm glad you're back and posting. Well said madam.

Benvenuta, Raffa!

Atavachron wrote: Raff is absolutely right when she points out that certain other Prog sites have a wider and often more absurd range of bands-- I've seen artists such as Los Lobos, Judas Priest, The Cars, Def Leppard, Heart, Earth Wind & Fire, Dio, and on and on. Sure, some of those acts have even been discussed here, but don't tell me PA goes overboard with non-prog additions, it just isn't the case. Conversely, PA has many new artists that do not appear at these other places, such as Aviva, Le Silo, Counter-World Experience and tons of others. This site works its collective ass off being the most cutting-edge and accurate Prog Rock center in the world, and that shows. ..and welcome back, you were missed

I was going to say I avoid the whole proto/related subject. Once a band is added I just dont review it, dont discuss it. Then I realized that you guys are collab's and it is harder for you to do that.

Well, I agree with you on many points, and I disagree on a bit as well...

stonebeard wrote: micky wrote: stonebeard wrote: Just because other sites are more inclusive than PA is no reason to think that adding borderline bands is alright. Stonie.... one thing that we can't lose sight of is exactly what Raff said.. there is no magic formula for what is prog and what is not... we can let history be our guide to a certain extent, but in the end.. it is like art... as individuals, we all see it differently and since this site IS inclusive...  we must recognize that what is prog to one, is sometimes not prog to another and some of the problems that have arisen here are when people seem to forget that,  and think their ideal of prog... is and should be the sites. Of course, but my view is one ingredient in the stew that becomes the overall ProgArchives policy. The good thing about PA is that the policy is (generically) an amalgam of  the individual views of the collaborators and owners. Not all the ingredients have to be the same (in fact, it would be boring if they all were) and my ideal vision of prog counters or parallels that of dozens others. Each is necessary to create an acceptable final product.

that is the real strength behind this site.. it is a collaborative site.  We all are but ingrediants in the stew hahhah (like that analogy)  

Welcome back Raff! You make many excellent points, from your citique of the constant bickering that occurs even now with The Who. Also, I like your idea of sorting out the PR section.

Welcome back Raf!!!

And thank you for the support. My whole motivation was not because of the merits of Proto/Related additions, but the excessive energy wasted over them (primarily the backlash). I was growing weary of it. Then it occurred to me that the prog lounges were also getting stale. So, instead of complaining, I decided to do something about it.