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Direct Link To This Post Topic: What happened to TOP 100???
    Posted: July 23 2007 at 15:45
Originally posted by explodingjosh explodingjosh wrote:

Why can't we have a (is this a word?...) customize-able chart?

The current chart or the previous chart will still be shown on the home page and will remain as the default, but when you click on the link to see the list, you can "customize" it by selecting a function (weighted, non-weighted, weight on popularity, weight on rating) that will change the chart to your preference. Of course, you could also select a year range, genre, albums that are your favorite colorLOL  and what not.


And country of origin, as I have suggested earlier... It would be interesting to see what bands from specific countries are getting noticed in the international prog community. Mostly for the fun of it, of course, but also as a tool for those of us who are arranging concerts and festivals - you know, are there any new efforts from Sweden that I should be aware of this year? What about the other countries in the "neighbourhood"?

I understand that the albums aren't linked to specific countries, only the bands are. Should be possible to make such a link, though...

However: I've been reading through this thread trying to find a sensible explanation to how this new rating system practically functions, but I remain unenlightened. If anybody cares to give an answer, read my post here:
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8462&PID=2580620#2580620
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 19 2007 at 10:34
^ in principle I'm using the same calculations - but I'm offering the visitor a choice which algorithm to apply, there are many more rating steps, and I extend the rating mechanism down to the track level.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 19 2007 at 10:27

^^^^^ Yep. And also if a ratings system like yours was applied to the reviews and data at PA... the massive amount of info would do justice to a great system like that.

For example, if I'm reading the info correctly on your site, FoaBP only has 14 reviews! and Ziltoid the Omniscent only 2! Man, to combine the relevance of your ranking system with PA's reviews data would be very cool.Geek
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 19 2007 at 01:28
"ratingfreak.com (a.k.a. progtology.com) is way ahead of me on this one... I'm now wondering why this hasn't already been done... It would be rrrrrrreally interesting to me to see how a ranking system like that one would arrange albums using the massive amount of reviews we have here at PA"

Well, submitting ratings doesn't take much time at my website ... and if only a hundred users rated their top 100 albums there ... Smile


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - July 19 2007 at 01:29
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2007 at 20:42
Why can't we have a (is this a word?...) customize-able chart?

The current chart or the previous chart will still be shown on the home page and will remain as the default, but when you click on the link to see the list, you can "customize" it by selecting a function (weighted, non-weighted, weight on popularity, weight on rating) that will change the chart to your preference. Of course, you could also select a year range, genre, albums that are your favorite colorLOL  and what not.

If I want to see a top 100 list of obscure bands with great ratings, I will choose the appropriate function (which would be the current one used).
If I want to see a top 100 list based on a mix of popularity and ratings.....
if I want to see a top 100 list based solely on popularity.....

It seems that about half of the complaints about the new list are based in one's interpretation of the rankings, and not the actual list and the function behind it. This is what happens when you let an extremely objective mathematical function tell people which prog-rock albums (which some of us hold very dear to our hearts) rank in what position. If the list was custom, not as many people would complain....

"what! SFoM is number 99! this list is stupid!"
"dude. just change the function to weight on popularity, and quit b*tchin!"

ratingfreak.com (a.k.a. progtology.com) is way ahead of me on this one... I'm now wondering why this hasn't already been done... It would be rrrrrrreally interesting to me to see how a ranking system like that one would arrange albums using the massive amount of reviews we have here at PA.


Edited by explodingjosh - July 18 2007 at 21:19
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2007 at 14:06
Originally posted by darqdean darqdean wrote:

Perhaps a more representative chart of our most popular titles would be one computed from our personal top 10's.

 

That is, if we could list our top ten favorite albums in our profiles (rated 10 down to 1), with the one (and only) proviso was that they had to be listed in the PA. The chart would then be made from those scores - with no weightings. This would benefit three fold:

  1. It would show what we really liked.
  2. It would weed-out all the fanboy and hateboy nonsense.
  3. It would allow us to see what each other liked individually.
 
ClapClapClapClap
 
I already did in my BIO...Big%20smileBig%20smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2007 at 04:17
Hey, the thing I was complaining about before regarding how the albums with one review were getting weird ratings was fixed! ClapClap
Looking at the top 100 now, it seems like the order is fairly accurate to the average ratings of the albums. I like the algorythm. It gives the more obscure albums a better chance to get on the list, which I personally approve of.
 
My only issue with the list now, as with the consensus so far, is the inclusion of live albums and PP/PR albums. Fix it! (please Embarrassed)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2007 at 16:49
^ Actually I have implemented something along the lines of what you suggest: The playlist service. You simply tell the system which albums you listened to recently (and how you like them), and from that the system can generate a chart of the albums which you currently like. Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2007 at 16:33
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:


Well, one major problem is that I like a lot more than 10 albums ...

But I really, really like the idea of personal top 10/100/etc ... that's why I made sure that on my website every user has his/her own page with their personal charts.Smile
Hmm, me too, but I think 10 is enough from 14,000 members to get a realistic over-view.
 
I keep looking at the PROGtology charts but it confuses me. I think I need to spend more time on there to get a better understanding of how it works and how you use it. Confused
 
Originally posted by StyLaZyn StyLaZyn wrote:

While the idea sounds reasonable, my top ten change regularly. Confused
 
I think we all do that, but just updating your profile-list once a week or so would keep the chart dynamic - and add to the fun Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2007 at 16:16
Originally posted by darqdean darqdean wrote:

Perhaps a more representative chart of our most popular titles would be one computed from our personal top 10's.

 

That is, if we could list our top ten favorite albums in our profiles (rated 10 down to 1), with the one (and only) proviso was that they had to be listed in the PA. The chart would then be made from those scores - with no weightings. This would benefit three fold:

  1. It would show what we really liked.
  2. It would weed-out all the fanboy and hateboy nonsense.
  3. It would allow us to see what each other liked individually.
 
While the idea sounds reasonable, my top ten change regularly. Confused
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2007 at 16:10
Originally posted by darqdean darqdean wrote:

Perhaps a more representative chart of our most popular titles would be one computed from our personal top 10's.

 

That is, if we could list our top ten favorite albums in our profiles (rated 10 down to 1), with the one (and only) proviso was that they had to be listed in the PA. The chart would then be made from those scores - with no weightings. This would benefit three fold:

  1. It would show what we really liked.
  2. It would weed-out all the fanboy and hateboy nonsense.
  3. It would allow us to see what each other liked individually.


Well, one major problem is that I like a lot more than 10 albums ...

But I really, really like the idea of personal top 10/100/etc ... that's why I made sure that on my website every user has his/her own page with their personal charts.Smile





Edited by MikeEnRegalia - July 16 2007 at 16:20
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2007 at 15:53
I think that is a great idea darqdean Thumbs%20Up
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2007 at 13:46
Originally posted by darqdean darqdean wrote:

Perhaps a more representative chart of our most popular titles would be one computed from our personal top 10's.

 

That is, if we could list our top ten favorite albums in our profiles (rated 10 down to 1), with the one (and only) proviso was that they had to be listed in the PA. The chart would then be made from those scores - with no weightings. This would benefit three fold:

  1. It would show what we really liked.
  2. It would weed-out all the fanboy and hateboy nonsense.
  3. It would allow us to see what each other liked individually.
 
That is a really good idea.
 
I think if this plan were implemented, you'd see a few bands at the top drop a few notches (I'm not going to name any names, but I think one band in particular would drop down a few notches). Again, not that I care. I realize the top 100 list is a meaningless amalgam of irrationality. And furthermore, I'm not personally invested in seeing THAT BAND drop down. But, it would be entertaining Smile


Edited by bluetailfly - July 16 2007 at 13:56
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2007 at 13:33
^^ This is without a doubt the BEST top 100 idea anyone has had in this thread; all the benefits and fewer of the drawbacks of the current system.

The only difficulty would be keeping it up to date where new releases and such are concerned; i.e. making our "top ten" one that can be easily updated and the update factored into the overall rating.

I'm all for this!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2007 at 12:48

Perhaps a more representative chart of our most popular titles would be one computed from our personal top 10's.

 

That is, if we could list our top ten favorite albums in our profiles (rated 10 down to 1), with the one (and only) proviso was that they had to be listed in the PA. The chart would then be made from those scores - with no weightings. This would benefit three fold:

  1. It would show what we really liked.
  2. It would weed-out all the fanboy and hateboy nonsense.
  3. It would allow us to see what each other liked individually.
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2007 at 04:08
As this thread is in the "Help us improve the site" section, could you stick to discussing the mechanics of the Top 100 here.
 
Discussions about the merits, longevity etc. of the music are better placed in the music sections.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2007 at 23:19
Originally posted by Rocktopus Rocktopus wrote:

^I think ELP's problem is that their music hasn't aged well.
Emerson was using keyboards light years ahead of his contempories, as was Palmer with his electronic drum kit.
 
It's bands like Magma & ealry Genesis that sounds very, very dated, both musically and production.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2007 at 23:15
Originally posted by Evandro Martini Evandro Martini wrote:

As I've said before, ELP's problem is that the ratings are always to albums, and they didn't manage to create a masterpiece-rate album.
 
Brain Salad Surgery was critically said to be the greatest prog album of all time in a recent edition of  the very respectable US collectors mag 'Goldmine'.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2007 at 22:59
^ completely agree with both your posts.. nice work
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2007 at 22:56
Originally posted by Rocktopus Rocktopus wrote:

^I think ELP's problem is that their music hasn't aged well.
 
Wow, I completely disagree with this. Having just gone through a mini-ELP phase (due to the fact that I am reading Macan's "Endless Enigma" (excellent ELP critical assessment, btw), I have been listening to their LPs again.
 
And I am blown away by how fresh and exciting they still sound sound. Aside from the awesome performances by ELP, even the production values are excellent and still sound excellent today.
 
Granted, if one is not used to keyboard centered prog, it will take a bit of getting used to. When their albums came out in the seventies (I'm thinking of the debut), I remember being rather taken aback at how challenging and offputting some of their pieces were at first (e.g., Three Fates), but the more you listened to it, the more it paid off.
 
To me, ELP are one of the founding fathers of prog. Like Yes, Genesis, Crimson, Floyd (and maybe Tull, I don't know, I have personal issues that I'm wrestling with regarding Tull), their music is the best prog ever recorded, bar none. Smile
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