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bluetailfly 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: January 28 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1383 |
 Posted: July 13 2007 at 13:25 |
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^^ Oh, I don't take the list that seriously, I'm just surprised that ELP, a band most prog critics rate very highly has such a poor showing here.
Of course it's my opinion (?) Not sure where you're coming from there.
To me, it's interesting that ELP has fallen so low, when their music was rated as highly as Yes, Crimson, Floyd, Tull (higher than Tull ;) in the golden age of prog.
That's my point.
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"The red polygon's only desire / is to get to the blue triangle."
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progismylife
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2006 Location: ibreathehelium Status: Offline Points: 15535 |
Posted: July 13 2007 at 13:28 |
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Sorry it's just I get sick and tired of seeing the same "why isn't my favorite band number 1 on the top 100 list" and I mistook your post for one of them  I see what you mean about ELP. |
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greenback
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: August 14 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3300 |
Posted: July 13 2007 at 14:03 |
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Edited by greenback - July 13 2007 at 14:40 |
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[HEADPINS - LINE OF FIRE: THE RECORD HAVING THE MOST POWERFUL GUITAR SOUND IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF MUSIC!>
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Online Points: 21163 |
Posted: July 13 2007 at 17:46 |
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Yeah ... I forgot whom I was talking to. Since I have no intention to engage in a hair splitting contest, I'll end it here.  |
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andu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 27 2006 Location: Romania Status: Offline Points: 3089 |
Posted: July 13 2007 at 17:59 |
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"You are through with the past, but the past ain't through with you!"
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Sofagrisen
Forum Groupie 
Joined: January 18 2007 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 45 |
Posted: July 13 2007 at 18:38 |
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That is art! Edited by Sofagrisen - July 13 2007 at 18:39 |
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greenback
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: August 14 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3300 |
Posted: July 13 2007 at 18:48 |
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well, maths are not a subjective field where personal taste matters!
math is pure science, and there should not have any confrontation, on the contrary.
usually, I do not discuss maths with people because they don't understand, but you seem to have a good background in maths. after all, life's boring without maths!
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[HEADPINS - LINE OF FIRE: THE RECORD HAVING THE MOST POWERFUL GUITAR SOUND IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF MUSIC!>
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greenback
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: August 14 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3300 |
Posted: July 13 2007 at 18:50 |
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yep...maybe math art rock.
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[HEADPINS - LINE OF FIRE: THE RECORD HAVING THE MOST POWERFUL GUITAR SOUND IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF MUSIC!>
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Online Points: 21163 |
Posted: July 14 2007 at 05:08 |
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What I meant was that the essence of your proposal was: total_score = f1(x, y) = log(x)*y^3
my own formula was a bit different, but it can be described as total_score = f2(x, y) = log(x*a+b)*y^c And M@x's current formula is something like total_score = f3(x, y) = (X*Y + x*y)/(X+x) ; X=avg(x) and Y = avg(y) now, if we compare f1, f2 and f3, does it really matter to know how x and y are calculated? |
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greenback
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: August 14 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3300 |
Posted: July 14 2007 at 13:27 |
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we should ask him the exact formula and compute a 3-D plot assuming all the votes are equally weighted for simplification...
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[HEADPINS - LINE OF FIRE: THE RECORD HAVING THE MOST POWERFUL GUITAR SOUND IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF MUSIC!>
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Online Points: 21163 |
Posted: July 14 2007 at 13:38 |
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Incidentally: I just implemented the weighted avg on my website too ... I like it! You can check it out here: http://progtology.com/home/charts.xhtml ... in the list the "normal" average is displayed, but the entries are sorted using the weighted avg. The cool thing is: For each chart only the albums displayed in the list are used for the calculation of the total weight (avg n_ratings, avg avg_rating).
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Evandro Martini
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 08 2006 Status: Offline Points: 183 |
Posted: July 15 2007 at 16:10 |
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As I've said before, ELP's problem is that the ratings are always to albums, and they didn't manage to create a masterpiece-rate album.
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"You’ll never make any money playing music that people can’t sing.” Keith Emerson's father
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Rocktopus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2006 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 4202 |
Posted: July 15 2007 at 18:46 |
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^I think ELP's problem is that their music hasn't aged well.
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Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
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bluetailfly
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 28 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1383 |
Posted: July 15 2007 at 22:46 |
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Hmmm...not sure how you arrived at this conclusion. Most prog critics and, I think, most knowledgable golden age prog fans are in agreement that Brain Salad Surgery is a prog masterpiece by most accepted definitions of that term. Actually, it's not even my favorite ELP album, but there's no doubt in my mind that it belongs in a list of top ten prog masterpieces, and that includes prog metal and neo-prog.
Of course it always boils down to one's opinion, but I think it's safe to say that BSS is a prog masterpiece (as is their first album and Tarkus, imho, and these of course are more debateable as to their masterpiece status).
My question to you would be, what defines your concept of prog masterpiece? Include some examples as well, if you would, so I can tell where your coming from.
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"The red polygon's only desire / is to get to the blue triangle."
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bluetailfly
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 28 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1383 |
Posted: July 15 2007 at 22:56 |
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Wow, I completely disagree with this. Having just gone through a mini-ELP phase (due to the fact that I am reading Macan's "Endless Enigma" (excellent ELP critical assessment, btw), I have been listening to their LPs again.
And I am blown away by how fresh and exciting they still sound sound. Aside from the awesome performances by ELP, even the production values are excellent and still sound excellent today.
Granted, if one is not used to keyboard centered prog, it will take a bit of getting used to. When their albums came out in the seventies (I'm thinking of the debut), I remember being rather taken aback at how challenging and offputting some of their pieces were at first (e.g., Three Fates), but the more you listened to it, the more it paid off.
To me, ELP are one of the founding fathers of prog. Like Yes, Genesis, Crimson, Floyd (and maybe Tull, I don't know, I have personal issues that I'm wrestling with regarding Tull), their music is the best prog ever recorded, bar none.
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"The red polygon's only desire / is to get to the blue triangle."
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65258 |
Posted: July 15 2007 at 22:59 |
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^ completely agree with both your posts.. nice work
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Tales
Forum Groupie
Joined: December 29 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 98 |
Posted: July 15 2007 at 23:15 |
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Brain Salad Surgery was critically said to be the greatest prog album of all time in a recent edition of the very respectable US collectors mag 'Goldmine'.
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Tales
Forum Groupie
Joined: December 29 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 98 |
Posted: July 15 2007 at 23:19 |
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Emerson was using keyboards light years ahead of his contempories, as was Palmer with his electronic drum kit.
It's bands like Magma & ealry Genesis that sounds very, very dated, both musically and production.
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Posted: July 16 2007 at 04:08 |
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As this thread is in the "Help us improve the site" section, could you stick to discussing the mechanics of the Top 100 here.
Discussions about the merits, longevity etc. of the music are better placed in the music sections.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: July 16 2007 at 12:48 |
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Perhaps a more representative chart of our most popular titles would be one computed from our personal top 10's. That is, if we could list our top ten favorite albums in our profiles (rated 10 down to 1), with the one (and only) proviso was that they had to be listed in the PA. The chart would then be made from those scores - with no weightings. This would benefit three fold: |
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What?
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What happened to TOP 100???
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bluetailfly wrote:
