What happened to TOP 100??? - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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Chris H

Prog Reviewer

Joined: October 08 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 8191

Posted: July 11 2007 at 11:23

Once again, why don't you review Leftoverture then?

Yorkie X

Forum Senior Member

Joined: July 04 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 1049

Posted: July 11 2007 at 11:27

Zappa88 wrote:

Once again, why don't you review Leftoverture then?

I have already awhile ago actually Wink

StyLaZyn

Forum Senior Member

Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079

Posted: July 11 2007 at 11:31

Yorkie X wrote:

Some classic prog albums which have sold millions have been pushed out of the top 100
Leftoverture being one of them. Well I am able to live with the changes but I don`t believe the data its hit and miss

It was pointed out to me before that record sales is not a measure of Prog-ness. It is a measure of popularity.

Chris H

Prog Reviewer

Joined: October 08 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 8191

Posted: July 11 2007 at 11:32

It's not on the website

clarke2001 View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: June 14 2006
Location: Croatia
Status: Offline
Points: 4160

Posted: July 11 2007 at 11:32

StyLaZyn wrote:

I think it looks more realistic. Good job!

Is it?

3.50
(Warning: only 0 ratings)

Buy

Percussion, sir!

Chris H

Prog Reviewer

Joined: October 08 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 8191

Posted: July 11 2007 at 11:33

StyLaZyn wrote:

It was pointed out to me before that record sales is not a measure of Prog-ness. It is a measure of popularity.

Selling a lot of records is very non-prog

Chris H

Prog Reviewer

Joined: October 08 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 8191

Posted: July 11 2007 at 11:33

clarke2001 wrote:

StyLaZyn wrote:

I think it looks more realistic. Good job!

Is it?

3.50
(Warning: only 0 ratings)

Buy

Hey at least the server has good taste, let it be

Dean

Special Collaborator

Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575

Posted: July 11 2007 at 11:36

Yorkie X wrote:

Zappa88 wrote:

Once again, why don't you review Leftoverture then?

I have already awhile ago actually Wink

There are no reviews listed under your profile, so you have a golden opportunity to do another one

What?

Chris H

Prog Reviewer

Joined: October 08 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 8191

Posted: July 11 2007 at 11:38

You should get writin' too, Mr. Dean

Dean

Special Collaborator

Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575

Posted: July 11 2007 at 11:39

Zappa88 wrote:

You should get writin' too, Mr. Dean

This is very true - but as you can see from the few I have done - I write long reviews which take... no you're right, I'm lazy

What?

Chris H

Prog Reviewer

Joined: October 08 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 8191

Posted: July 11 2007 at 11:43

darqdean wrote:

Zappa88 wrote:

You should get writin' too, Mr. Dean

This is very true - but as you can see from the few I have done - I write long reviews which take... no you're right, I'm lazy

StyLaZyn

Forum Senior Member

Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079

Posted: July 11 2007 at 11:44

darqdean wrote:

Zappa88 wrote:

You should get writin' too, Mr. Dean

This is very true - but as you can see from the few I have done - I write long reviews which take... no you're right, I'm lazy

I'm guilty if charged as well. I know so many Prog albums here but haven't written reviews for them. Usually its because I don't know what to write. Sometimes its because I don't care much for the album.

Evandro Martini View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: February 08 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 183

Posted: July 11 2007 at 11:46

About the ELP albums, my opinion is that they are a fantastic band, but they never managed to create a perfect album. If I put together 5 or 6 of their songs it would be a deserved top10 album, but the albums, in their totallity, are not masterpieces... sadly...

And I think casual listeners might come here frequently, especially because this site is the first google entry for Progressive Rock

"You’ll never make any money playing music that people can’t sing.” Keith Emerson's father

Dean

Special Collaborator

Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575

Posted: July 11 2007 at 12:02

StyLaZyn wrote:

darqdean wrote:

Zappa88 wrote:

You should get writin' too, Mr. Dean

This is very true - but as you can see from the few I have done - I write long reviews which take... no you're right, I'm lazy

I know what you mean, when I decided I would join-in with this reviewing m'larky I set out with the following objectives:

Only review albums with zero or only few reviews - mainly because there isn't much I can add to a Pink Floyd/Yes/Dream Theater album review that hasn't been said already - I won't even bother rating them as their chart position really doesn't bother me that much.
Be objective as possible - ie not to give a high mark just because I like it.
Not to review albums by bands I don't like - I still don't get why people do that - if a band you do like releases a bad album then give it a low mark by all means, but a low mark to a good album by a band you cannot abide? wtf?
Research what I am reviewing - it takes a few minutes to search the interweb to find out a little background info on an album.

anyway, 3 reviews and (possibly) 1 band bio in 2 months isn't too bad is it?

What?

TR!P

Forum Groupie

Joined: December 21 2006
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 69

Posted: July 11 2007 at 12:14

I was just looking over the Top 100 most popular albums list and i think its silly to see the album Thick as a Brick by Jethro Tull at #1 with a rating of 4.67

and then to see the second album Wish you were Here by Pick Floyd which is rated 4.66

i understand 4.67 is greater then 4.66, sure, however what i dont understand is why with this minimal difference the J.Tull album should go ahead of the Floyd album when:

J.Tull has only been rated 331 times when the Floyd album has been rated a much more 430

surely the fact its been rated more yet it still maintains the high marking shows the Floyd album to technicaly be more popular then the J.Tull album

this goes for alot of the other albums listed high on the list, i spotted some album with only 90 ratings above some albums that had been rated 300+ times

this is the J.Tull Floyd thing im talkin about:

1		1972	4.67 (331 ratings)	JETHRO TULL Thick As A Brick	Prog Folk (Studio Album)
2		1975	4.66 (430 ratings)	PINK FLOYD Wish You Were Here	Psychedelic/Space Rock (Studio Album)

**edit**

just another small thing i noticed:

the link to the list of top 100 says "TOP 100 Progressive Music Albums" and if you look through the list there are loads of DVD and Videos, the live albums are fine with me being in the list, but i dunno if its so right in having the Video/DVDs in with the actual albums

people can rate these DVD/videos on different levels to when rating on albums, with DVD/video you get a whole new specacle and have to acknolege the visual images and sights you see, this is different to albums where you only rating purely on the sound and feeling you get from it

so i think they should be seperated

Edited by TR!P - July 11 2007 at 12:17

join communism

bhikkhu

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 06 2006
Location: A² Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 5109

Posted: July 11 2007 at 12:20

There is something wrong with the system. If you look at some albums with only one rating, you will see what I mean. Hopefully M@X is on it.

a.k.a. H.T.

http://riekels.wordpress.com

StyLaZyn

Forum Senior Member

Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079

Posted: July 11 2007 at 12:22

bhikkhu wrote:

There is something wrong with the system. If you look at some albums with only one rating, you will see what I mean. Hopefully M@X is on it.

I think there should be a minimum number of ratings before an album is allowed into the ranks.

Jim Garten View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Retired Admin & Razor Guru

Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693

Posted: July 11 2007 at 12:31

Zappa88 wrote:

If people defended their albums by writing reviews instead of complaining, the list would be rock solid by now!

Now if you'll excuse me, I just need to "radically (and baselessly) manipulate the group consensus by attaching more weight to my own opinions"

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012

yargh

Forum Senior Member

Joined: October 04 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 421

Posted: July 11 2007 at 12:36

"Only review albums with zero or only few reviews - mainly because there isn't much I can add to a Pink Floyd/Yes/Dream Theater album review that hasn't been said already - I won't even bother rating them as their chart position really doesn't bother me that much."

A very good idea.

"Be objective as possible - ie not to give a high mark just because I like it."

This makes no sense, since whether or not I like the album is the only basis I have for rating it. Albums have no objective value.

"Not to review albums by bands I don't like - I still don't get why people do that - if a band you do like releases a bad album then give it a low mark by all means, but a low mark to a good album by a band you cannot abide? wtf?

I don't agree with this one at all. I am a prog fan. If a prog band consistently does work that I think is mediocre or poor, I'm perfectly justified in giving consistently low ratings. If they ever release an album that is good, I'll give it it's due. Plus, negative reviews are more fun to write.

"Research what I am reviewing - it takes a few minutes to search the interweb to find out a little background info on an album."

This is a very good idea, even if only to fact-check the information that you are putting out there. It's not necessary for each review to be a biography, but it is important for readers to be able to rely on information in the reviews.

Firepuck

Forum Senior Member

Joined: February 28 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 657

Posted: July 11 2007 at 12:38

TR!P wrote:

I was just looking over the Top 100 most popular albums list and i think its silly to see the album Thick as a Brick by Jethro Tull at #1 with a rating of 4.67

and then to see the second album Wish you were Here by Pick Floyd which is rated 4.66

i understand 4.67 is greater then 4.66, sure, however what i dont understand is why with this minimal difference the J.Tull album should go ahead of the Floyd album when:

J.Tull has only been rated 331 times when the Floyd album has been rated a much more 430

surely the fact its been rated more yet it still maintains the high marking shows the Floyd album to technicaly be more popular then the J.Tull album

this goes for alot of the other albums listed high on the list, i spotted some album with only 90 ratings above some albums that had been rated 300+ times

this is the J.Tull Floyd thing im talkin about:

**edit**

just another small thing i noticed:

so i think they should be seperated

TR!P, statistically speaking there is negligible difference between 331 reviews and 430 reviews. I'm not saying you are wrong but another 100 reviews of TAAB would statistically not change it's rating. In this particular case it deserves to be placed ahead of WYWH.

It appears the problem being wrestled with here is how many reviews does it take to be statistically accurate and whether the Top 100 should be statistically accurate anyways.

My problem is that the header to the Top 100 on the front page of the website says 'Prog Archives most popular titles'. If the website is promoting the Top 100 as the most popular then yes, absolutely, the number of reviews should count somehow in the rating algorithm.

If the site is to maintain the current algorithm without utilizing the number of ratings then perhaps the header should read something like ‘Prog Archives highest rated titles’ – in other words, remove ‘popular’ from the header.

And I agree about the DVD’s – this site is suppose to be mainly about the music, videos should not be included in list.

Kryten : "'Pub'? Ah yes, A meeting place where humans attempt to achieve advanced states of mental incompetence by the repeated consumption of fermented vegetable drinks."