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Topic ClosedWhat happened to TOP 100???

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Chris H View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2007 at 10:14
Well I wouldn't say that getting rid of it all together is such a good choice either. People that don't know much about prog, or don't know what to buy next can easily look and say "Oh, so that is what these knowledgable people think is one of the best albums? I thnik I'll trust them". It just very convienant for the casual listener.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2007 at 10:17
"Yes, can't see how it can have any credibility as a proper guide to prog when one of the seminal and establishing influences in the genre is barely represented in the Top 100."
 
But that's not what it is.  The "top 100" is nothing more than the highest-rated prog albums on the site.  The administrators already radically (and baselessly) manipulated the group consensus by attaching more weight to their own opinions.
 
 
"Love ELP or loathe them, it's a bit like doing a guide to classical music and leaving out Beethoven or Mozart."
 
No it isn't, it's like leaving your dog's feces off the plates at a dinner party.  An ELP album doesn't belong in any prog top 500, much less top 100.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2007 at 10:19
Originally posted by yargh yargh wrote:

An ELP album doesn't belong in any prog top 500, much less top 100.
 
WHAT!?!?!  Are you nuts?  Angry 
 
Talk about baseless. Explain why.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2007 at 10:21
Originally posted by yargh yargh wrote:

"Yes, can't see how it can have any credibility as a proper guide to prog when one of the seminal and establishing influences in the genre is barely represented in the Top 100."
 
But that's not what it is.  The "top 100" is nothing more than the highest-rated prog albums on the site.  The administrators already radically (and baselessly) manipulated the group consensus by attaching more weight to their own opinions.
 
 
"Love ELP or loathe them, it's a bit like doing a guide to classical music and leaving out Beethoven or Mozart."
 
No it isn't, it's like leaving your dog's feces off the plates at a dinner party.  An ELP album doesn't belong in any prog top 500, much less top 100.
 
I believe you mean the opinions of the collaborators and reviewers. Sure, they are weighted a little higher but that is only because they have shown over the years that they can be counted on to accurately review a diverse amount of music, or at least be knowledgable about almost every subject. The admins aren't just taking their opinions and collaborating to start a list, this is all done mathematically based on what information everybody has contributed to the site so far, not just admins or collabs or reviewers.


Edited by Zappa88 - July 11 2007 at 10:22
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Chris H View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2007 at 10:22
Thanks for the back-up Rich, it's like a war zone in here!Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2007 at 10:32
There are far more of us than there are colabs and reviewers, so the more we review and rate an album, the less weight their opinion carries in the final score. Also, they will be concentrating on writing reviews for their specialist subject - they don't vote on every album by every artist.
 
You too can have a higher weighting in the overal score if you write a reasonable length review to go with your rating.
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2007 at 10:34
Originally posted by Zappa88 Zappa88 wrote:

Thanks for the back-up Rich, it's like a war zone in here!Tongue
 
Wink
 
Believe me, I know its easy to get lost in the emotion. Thankfully many members continue to present unbiased views. Being an admin is surely no picnic at times.
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2007 at 10:41
It's a little weird to see PT in almost the top ten, but at least Lamb Liee Down dropped, though not even half as far as i hopedEvil%20Smile
 
I liked the old list better, but with time, this'll probably stabilize.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2007 at 10:43
If people defended their albums by writing reviews instead of complaining, the list would be rock solid by now! I just don't get itWacko
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2007 at 10:44
These look like favourable conditions for pushing a PdP album into the top 100! After all, if Psychotic Waltz can get in... ;P
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2007 at 10:52
Originally posted by Zappa88 Zappa88 wrote:

Well I wouldn't say that getting rid of it all together is such a good choice either. People that don't know much about prog, or don't know what to buy next can easily look and say "Oh, so that is what these knowledgable people think is one of the best albums? I thnik I'll trust them". It just very convienant for the casual listener.
 
Sites like these aren't visited by many "casual listeners."  Let's face it, this place (and the other major prog sites) are as hard-core prog-geek as it gets.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2007 at 10:57
Originally posted by yargh yargh wrote:

Originally posted by Zappa88 Zappa88 wrote:

Well I wouldn't say that getting rid of it all together is such a good choice either. People that don't know much about prog, or don't know what to buy next can easily look and say "Oh, so that is what these knowledgable people think is one of the best albums? I thnik I'll trust them". It just very convienant for the casual listener.
 
There aren't many "casual listeners" on this site (and the other major prog sites).  These places are for the hardcore fans. 
 
Regardless of the casual listener opinion, I have personally found out about many bands I never would have heard of otherwise. This is directly a result of the Top 100.
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2007 at 11:00

I am willing to bet that only a very select few here have heard every single album in that top 100, I have only heard about 80-85 myself.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2007 at 11:04
If you want to inform casual readers and newbies then I think the chart could be replaced with a Top 100 most popular Prog Artists chart. - i.e. take the existing chart and only allow one album from each artist (or compose the chart based upon the average of all albums for each artist).
 
This would at least curtail the childish CTTE vs SEBTP vs WYWH vs TAAB I-am-more-proggier-than-thou debates.
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2007 at 11:05
"I believe you mean the opinions of the collaborators and reviewers. Sure, they are weighted a little higher but that is only because they have shown over the years that they can be counted on to accurately review a diverse amount of music..."
 
Huh?  An album has no objective value.  Thus, "accuracy" in a review context simply means writing a review that expresses your own opinion of the album.  Presumably, anybody who can write can do this.   
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2007 at 11:08
Originally posted by yargh yargh wrote:

"I believe you mean the opinions of the collaborators and reviewers. Sure, they are weighted a little higher but that is only because they have shown over the years that they can be counted on to accurately review a diverse amount of music..."
 
Huh?  An album has no objective value.  Thus, "accuracy" in a review context simply means writing a review that expresses your own opinion of the album.  Presumably, anybody who can write can do this.   
 
Yes, but the higher-ups are less prone to writing "fanboy reviews" or "hate reviews" for an album. Sure there are great reviewers that aren't collabs...but I can count them on my fingers and toes. Normal members have a little less weight on their reviews because its classic to see 100 5 star reviews for the number 2 album on the chart, and then when it goes to number one there will be 100 1 star reviews for it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2007 at 11:11
Hey... why has "Daybreak/On the road" by eloy a reating of 3.22 when only me and alex have reviewed it, and both rated it 2? :)

Edit: Oh, sorry, i realised this has already been discussed. Still, it hasn't been fixed though..


Edited by Evans - July 11 2007 at 11:14

'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..'
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2007 at 11:12
Originally posted by darqdean darqdean wrote:

^ there are numerous examples, (including some 3.54/0 ratings) the one previously mentioned was Sean Trane's single review of this: http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=10162 which he awarded 4 stars, but it gets a 3.55/1 rating


Fixed Embarrassed
Prog On !
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2007 at 11:18
Originally posted by M@X M@X wrote:

Originally posted by darqdean darqdean wrote:

^ there are numerous examples, (including some 3.54/0 ratings) the one previously mentioned was Sean Trane's single review of this: http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=10162 which he awarded 4 stars, but it gets a 3.55/1 rating


Fixed Embarrassed
I think there must be a caching or pipeline effect because the fix hasn't filtered through yet.
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2007 at 11:21
Some classic prog albums which have sold millions have been pushed out of the top 100
Leftoverture being one of them.  Well I am  able to live with the changes but I don`t believe the data  its hit and miss
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