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Asphalt 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: July 07 2006 Status: Offline Points: 456 |
 Posted: July 11 2007 at 04:34 |
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Ok, personally, I think it's total bogus. explodingjosh and Logan have already made it pretty clear that it is not in the least coherent. Let's take 10 to 12
Now pop-quiz. If three albums are rated just the same, should we order them by which has the most number of ratings first? It would seem logical, since that would virtually mean that album could've scored lower. Yet it didn't, so that means it's not only more popular, but also more appreciated. Or maybe we should put the album with the smallest number or ratings first? It's not so popular, but it got better ratings overall. Oh, wait, I've got an idea, how about neither? Any of these would at least make sense, so I suggest we take a completely random criteria for arranging these albums! As Brian would say, THAT IS NOT COOL, MAN! THAT IS NOT COOL! |
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Seyo
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 08 2004 Location: Bosnia Status: Offline Points: 1320 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 05:25 |
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This is not good, I'm afraid. I even did not look at top 100, I don't care about it, but the new rating average is simply not correct.
How on earth only one rating worth 5 stars can possibly produce the overall rating average of that item worth 3.84???
See this for example (a random specimen)
SPLIT ENZ "Split Enz" ratings distribution3.84 / 5
(1 ratings)
  
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 05:47 |
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These albums only have the same rating when the numbers are rounded to 2 decimal places. The values are calculated to higher precision than that, so for example, Focus could have 4.43205 to Floyd's 4.43203 and therefore be ranked higher.
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What?
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Asphalt
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 07 2006 Status: Offline Points: 456 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 06:45 |
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Well then, we should at least the full picture of it, if that is case. Otherwise, it appears to make no sense to the casual visitor
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M@X
Forum & Site Admin Group
Co-founder, Admin & Webmaster Joined: January 29 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 4028 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 06:59 |
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Guys, thanks for your comments ...
I am currently still improving the calculcations so , more and more movement in the LISTS in the coming hours ;-) Thanks for your suppot ! Max |
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Prog On !
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TR!P
Forum Groupie 
Joined: December 21 2006 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 69 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 07:15 |
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hey this is prob my first proper time on the forums but i visit the actual site avidly
and i too noticed the change today, i guess it is in a way technicaly better so im not complaining, so well done to ya'
it was quite odd to see the first time i realised it though, after seeing Ayreons "human equation" as the number.1 Prog.Metal album (i wouldnt really agree with that personly, but i guess ratings speak for themselves)
ive just written up a review (Agalloch's "the mantle") recently that you'd prob find on them most recent reviews written part on the home page of the site, in which i touch on the ranking
its crazy to think a year (or maybe more ago) when i saw "The Mantle" by Agollach on the top.20 prog.metal list to now'a'days where its not even listed on the top.100 prog.metal albums list
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join communism
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Tichy
Forum Newbie 
Joined: May 06 2005 Location: Turkey Status: Offline Points: 32 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 08:27 |
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It's the silliest Top100 I've ever seen. Even when Atom Heart Mother was No. 1, it's better, at least funny and obvious to be fixed soon:)
Who is SBB, only 28 people voted for it, how could it be found a place in a Top List, I'm not talking about music quality, lyrics or songs. It's not the best 100 list, I don't argue that who's the best or how could WYWH be the best album in prog history, even though it's not a prog album at all (at least not fully-qualified)
This is Top 100 list, it's not for progressive rock listeners, but for prog newbies. They want to learn much more about progressive rock or are suggested by a friend, check out the progarchives and wonder who's the most populer albums and bands: Bacamarte, SBB, Focus, PFM? (Don't piss off, I love the last two of them, but these groups are not a starting point or the most known samples)
And why are all the polls about Genesis, Yes, Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd, ELP, VDGG; because we know them better and want to discuss about them, even their worst albums. Is there anyone to see or remember a Bacamarte or SBB poll? Because they are not popular, 500 people did not vote for their albums, 200 people did not review their album, I don't know maybe %80 of progarchives visitors did not listen it. I don't care about how SBB, etc. are musically great, they did not left a mark, were not discussed or unfairly criticised, their name were not heard from who did not know what the prog is. So the list must be changed soon, because it's meaningless now and don't forget that this list Top 100, not the best 100. And how can ELP almost out of it?
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4079 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 08:30 |
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Weighted averages work best in this type of rating.
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nuncjusz
Forum Newbie
Joined: March 21 2007 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 25 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 08:35 |
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One day passed and "Scenes From a Memory" fell from 53 down to 69 and are now behind "LTE 2"... And S.B.B.'s "Memento z banalnym tryptykiem" which was way beyond the top 100 just a month ago is now number 13...
BTW "Images and Words" are on the verge of falling out of the top 100... |
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4079 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 08:41 |
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The point about SBB and its rank I think shows the importance of using the current calculation. Such albums have previously suffered due to lack of voting and it detracted from their observed significance. Hopefully this issue will cause rise for individuals to listen to the album and discover its significance.
Up to this point its been a popularity poll with the most known artists reaping the benefits.
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TR!P
Forum Groupie
Joined: December 21 2006 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 69 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 09:03 |
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that may be true, but these bands like Pink Floyd, Dream Theater etc. that have multiple albums up in high ranks are there for a reason, and that reason is, they'er good albums
you say the most well known artists reap the benefits while lesser known bands suffer, well rightfully so, the most popular bands are popular for a reason, this isnt' MTV or any "top..20 pop hits"
the majority of the bands at the top of the lists are good bands that have made multiple good albums, this is why they'er so highly seated
sure, i do get what your saying how the lesser known bands dont get as much votes/reviews purely because of the lack of knowledge about them, but thats just one factor we cant really controll so its not really anyones fault
surely an album by a popular well known band which gets 50 5stars and 50 4stars should be seated higher then an album by a lesser known band who got 50 5stars only
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join communism
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M@X
Forum & Site Admin Group
Co-founder, Admin & Webmaster Joined: January 29 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 4028 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 09:04 |
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Guys,
I've updated the TOP list with detailled explanations... http://www.progarchives.com/top-prog-albums.asp Hope this help .... |
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Prog On !
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Mandrakeroot
Forum Senior Member
Italian Prog Specialist Joined: March 01 2006 Location: San Foca, Friûl Status: Offline Points: 5851 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 09:27 |
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M@X now you should concentrate yourself on the ratings of the individual album because how written in other thread there are weird cases (album with 1 rating and decimals [for example 3,45/1])
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4079 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 09:32 |
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Provided we are comfortable with mainstream Prog artists ruling the charts. While I listen to, and prefer, more accessible and melodic Prog, that is merely a preference and in truth may not be fully in-line with what Prog is. Some of the most important Prog is noticeably difficult for the average listener to enjoy.
I will raise a few tempers with this idea, but is DT's SFAM important? Not really because it is not original. The idea had been done before many times. Is Yes's Tales important? Most certainly in its nature. SFAM is more listener friendly thus easily attracts the non-Prog fan but Tales almost defines what Prog is about and even the most devout Prog fan may not find listening pleasure in it.
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Chris H
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: October 08 2006 Location: Charlotte, NC Status: Offline Points: 8191 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 09:39 |
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Nah that would pretty bad, it looks nice and clean when it is just "4.43" instead of "4.435780289862347856"...know what I mean?
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M@X
Forum & Site Admin Group
Co-founder, Admin & Webmaster Joined: January 29 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 4028 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 09:39 |
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I may have fix this already ... Wich album ? |
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Prog On !
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 09:48 |
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^ there are numerous examples, (including some 3.54/0 ratings) the one previously mentioned was Sean Trane's single review of this: http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=10162 which he awarded 4 stars, but it gets a 3.55/1 rating
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What?
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Drachen Theaker
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 22 2005 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 376 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 09:55 |
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Yes, can't see how it can have any credibility as a proper guide to prog when one of the seminal and establishing influences in the genre is barely represented in the Top 100.
Love ELP or loathe them, it's a bit like doing a guide to classical music and leaving out Beethoven or Mozart. |
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"It's 1973, almost dinnertime and I'm 'aving 'oops!" - Gene Hunt
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Chris H
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 08 2006 Location: Charlotte, NC Status: Offline Points: 8191 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 10:10 |
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Guys and gals, I'd hate to sound annoying but I'm very irritated by the complaints about who is where on the chart. First off, it's not like M@X is picking his favorite albums, or picking obscure albums for the hell of it just to make people mad...YOU GUYS ALL HAVE THE POWER! This is OUR chart, everybody here on PA has a say in it and take for example Brain Salad Surgery. It's not in the top 100 but it's your favorite album? Then write a review for it to give it some more of a chance of getting back into the top rather than sitting down and complianing and trying to change the algorithm!
Edited by Zappa88 - July 11 2007 at 10:11 |
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yargh
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 04 2005 Status: Offline Points: 421 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 10:12 |
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The ridiculous importance some people attach to that stupid list is beyond pathetic. Considering how many ratings have been affected by an intent to alter an album's overall score, I think the most reasonable thing to do with the "top 100" is to get rid of it altogether. |
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| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
What happened to TOP 100???
Topic Options
Essential: a masterpiece of progressive music (100%)
Excellent addition to any prog music collection (0%)
Good, but non-essential (0%)
Collectors/fans only (0%)
Poor. Only for completionists (0%)
Asphalt wrote:
