What happened to TOP 100??? - Progressive Rock Music Forum

Author

Message

Topic Search

Topic Options

Yorkie X

Forum Senior Member

Joined: July 04 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 1049

Posted: July 10 2007 at 17:20

98. EMERSON LAKE & PALMER (ELP)
Brain Salad Surgery Ermm

Dean

Special Collaborator

Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575

Posted: July 10 2007 at 17:23

chamberry wrote:

I was looking at one of my reviews giving the band a 3 star and the result is 3.53. I also gave the same band a 4 star on another album and the results is 3.54.

I'm not that good at math so that's probably why I didn't understood the wikipedia definition. LOL

I guess the rating weights have changed. But with only 1 rating for each album the weighted average should be the same as the mean average which in turn should be equal to the rating you gave.

However, it does look like the Colaborator weighting has gone awry on your 4-star review.

Edited by darqdean - July 10 2007 at 17:28

What?

Failcore

Forum Senior Member

Joined: October 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 4625

Posted: July 10 2007 at 17:33

I think it would be cool if the algorithm factored in sales of the albums somehow. Not too much, mind you, but it should get a tad bit of a say. Just a little. Really tiny adjustment.

sleeper

Prog Reviewer

Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
Status: Offline
Points: 16449

Posted: July 10 2007 at 17:47

Deathrabbit wrote:

I think it would be cool if the algorithm factored in sales of the albums somehow. Not too much, mind you, but it should get a tad bit of a say. Just a little. Really tiny adjustment.

Well, considering that Dark Side Of The Moon is in the 30-40 million sales region and many/most albums here are sub 10 000, I fail to see the point.

Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005

Dean

Special Collaborator

Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575

Posted: July 10 2007 at 17:48

sleeper wrote:

Well, considering that Dark Side Of The Moon is in the 30-40 million sales region and many/most albums here are sub 10 000, I fail to see the point.

It's just a trick to get Invisible Touch into the top 10

What?

Arsillus

Forum Senior Member

Joined: March 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7374

Posted: July 10 2007 at 17:51

darqdean wrote:

sleeper wrote:

Well, considering that Dark Side Of The Moon is in the 30-40 million sales region and many/most albums here are sub 10 000, I fail to see the point.

It's just a trick to get Invisible Touch into the top 10

The hidden faction of deviants to destroy PA is exposed.

Dirk

Forum Senior Member

Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 1043

Posted: July 10 2007 at 17:55

Floyd on first position, PFM in top 10 and Bacamarte on14th position,Grobschnitt's Solar music live back in top 100, i'm definitely not complaining Thumbs%20Up

. And indeed if this thread wasn't here i wouldn't have noticed for a month.

Dim

Prog Reviewer

Joined: April 17 2007
Location: Austin TX
Status: Offline
Points: 6890

Posted: July 10 2007 at 17:59

WYWH Does not belong in the top ten, I know some people can't seem to fing the difference between a good album and a good prog album. I totally agree we should do something about this apostrophy.

russellk

Prog Reviewer

Joined: February 28 2005
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 782

Posted: July 10 2007 at 17:59

Been thinking about this change this morning.

Many of us experienced prog-heads profess our disinterest in the Top 100 (doesn't stop us posting though). So who is the Top 100 for?

In my opinion it serves the newer prog-lover, someone looking to build up their infant collection.

That's why a weighting for popularity was very important in the old system. A newcomer to prog needs, surely, to listen to the most widely acclaimed progressive music before branching out. Yes, they should branch out, which is why the site has 'Top' lists in all the different and challenging prog genres. But listening to the top 100 should be the first aim.

That 'popularity' weighting has largely gone.

So what will happen now? Some of the more obscure albums lauded by a few are now in the Top 100. Newcomers to prog will purchase them. They may find the music too much for their uneducated ears, and put prog aside altogether, or at the least discard the genre from which comes the album they purchased.

My point? The change is great for me: it highlights some new music to get hold of (I've not heard BACAMARTE, for example). But the Top 100 is not for me, a prog lover since the early '70s. It's for the newcomer, who will, I think, be somewhat disconcerted by some of the music they may inadvertently end up with.

Edited by russellk - July 10 2007 at 18:03

Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784

Posted: July 10 2007 at 18:06

russellk wrote:

Benn thinking about this change this morning.

Many of us experienced prog-heads profess our disinterest in the Top 100 (doesn't stop us posting though). So who is the Top 100 for?

In my opinion it serves the newer prog-lover, someone looking to build up their infant collection.

That's why a weighting for popularity was very important in the old system. A newcomer to prog needs, surely, to listen to the most widely acclaimed progressive music before branching out. Yes, they should branch out, which is why the site has 'Top' lists in all the different and challenging prog genres. But listening to the top 100 should be the first aim.

That 'popularity' weighting has largely gone.

So what will happen now? Some of the more obscure albums lauded by a few are now in the Top 100. Newcomers to prog will purchase them. They may find the music too much for their uneducated ears, and put aside prog altogether, or at the least the genre from which the album they purchased comes from.

My point? The change is great for me: it highlights some new music to get hold of (I've not heard BACAMARTE, for example). But the Top 100 is not for me, a prog lover since the early '70s. It's for the newcomer, who will, I think, be somewhat disconcerted by some of the music they may inadvertently end up with.

When I was getting introduced to prog and I found this site the first albums I bought were those from bands I had never heard of before. I cut my teeth on Pavlov's Dog, Gnidrolog, The Residents, Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, PFM, and VDGG.

If someone is looking to explore prog they're doing so because they want something different, something they've never heard before. There's no danger of scarring off someone with this sort of exploratory mindset. On the contrary the danger is boring him so he thinks prog doesn't have the answer I'm looking for; at which point he goes looking for free jazz or whatnot to satisfy him.

"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "

OpethGuitarist View Drop Down

Prog Reviewer

Joined: June 25 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1655

Posted: July 10 2007 at 18:06

good thing theres still like all of my favorite albums NOT in the top 100

top 100 could be reversed to bottom 100 for me and I really would have few complaints, heh

back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums

bhikkhu

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 06 2006
Location: A² Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 5109

Posted: July 10 2007 at 18:11

micky wrote:

I like it.... nice seeing Per Un Amico up with albums it should be up with. give you $20 though if you add some code to drop the same damn Genesis albums off the top of the list though hahhah

Heretic!!! Blasphemer!!!

a.k.a. H.T.

http://riekels.wordpress.com

Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784

Posted: July 10 2007 at 18:11

OpethGuitarist wrote:

good thing theres still like all of my favorite albums NOT in the top 100

top 100 could be reversed to bottom 100 for me and I really would have few complaints, heh

Damn Joey you must like some terrible music then if it's not even on the top 100.

"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "

Evandro Martini View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: February 08 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 183

Posted: July 10 2007 at 18:13

Well, I'm one of those who care for the top 100, and I didn't like the new algo. Ok, Bacamarte and Harmonium on the top 20 is great, but I perferred the other list, where the grading were important but the amount of reviews too.

"You’ll never make any money playing music that people can’t sing.” Keith Emerson's father

The T

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493

Posted: July 10 2007 at 18:14

This is just a diabolical plot to keep DT as far away of the top 10 as possible!!!!!!

andu

Forum Senior Member

Joined: September 27 2006
Location: Romania
Status: Offline
Points: 3089

Posted: July 10 2007 at 18:15

Could anyone with better knowledge of math explain the new algorithm and it's characteristics? The Wikipedia article speakes Chinese to me. Confused

sircosick

Forum Senior Member

Joined: January 29 2007
Location: Chile
Status: Offline
Points: 1264

Posted: July 10 2007 at 18:17

Perhaps I need to be updated here, but I didn't notice the reason why TAAB's rating got lower....... Also other Tull's releases did....... WHY??? Angry

The best you can is good enough...

russellk

Prog Reviewer

Joined: February 28 2005
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 782

Posted: July 10 2007 at 18:19

Not everyone has followed your path, Mr Equality, even though I agree with your sentiment. In fact, I reckon you'd be a rarity. People tend to come at the boundaries of things from the safe centre, not the extreme ragged edge.

I'd still argue that more people will be put off than encouraged by this change. And there are other ways to discover the ragged edge in this site. I just don't think the Top 100 should be one of them.

The T

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493

Posted: July 10 2007 at 18:19

I'm sorry if nobody likes what I'm going to say, but this new top-100, as unimportant as it may seem, is used for may people to make purchases or research... now it's even more anachronistic, only 70's bands in the top 20 (most of them), very obscure, unknown bands that may have GREAT music but that don't reflect prog's current reality... This is not about DT, but about the top 100 being a "70's prog top 100 with a few exceptions"....

The older algorythm gave better results... that top-100 was balanced and, yes, all your favorite top-10 were by the usual suspects (Genesis, Yes, PF, VDGG, etc) but every now and then you could find others in the top 30 spots...

Sorry, it's MY opinion, of course... anachronistic.

The T

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493

Posted: July 10 2007 at 18:21

russellk wrote:

Been thinking about this change this morning.

Many of us experienced prog-heads profess our disinterest in the Top 100 (doesn't stop us posting though). So who is the Top 100 for?

In my opinion it serves the newer prog-lover, someone looking to build up their infant collection.

That's why a weighting for popularity was very important in the old system. A newcomer to prog needs, surely, to listen to the most widely acclaimed progressive music before branching out. Yes, they should branch out, which is why the site has 'Top' lists in all the different and challenging prog genres. But listening to the top 100 should be the first aim.

That 'popularity' weighting has largely gone.

So what will happen now? Some of the more obscure albums lauded by a few are now in the Top 100. Newcomers to prog will purchase them. They may find the music too much for their uneducated ears, and put prog aside altogether, or at the least discard the genre from which comes the album they purchased.

My point? The change is great for me: it highlights some new music to get hold of (I've not heard BACAMARTE, for example). But the Top 100 is not for me, a prog lover since the early '70s. It's for the newcomer, who will, I think, be somewhat disconcerted by some of the music they may inadvertently end up with.

This is also true... I myself did that... Followed the top-100... Now... Bacamarte? You know how easy is it to get a cd like that here in the US? PFM? (yes, with 50 USD)... We're making prog a difficult music to find for new people.... if we already agreed in that the top-100 is NOT artistically relevant, then let's make it useful for new proggsters, instead of just trying it to be as obscure as possible.