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Jon The Impaler 
Forum Groupie 
Joined: July 10 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 42 |
 Posted: June 10 2007 at 07:02 |
Exactly my thoughts - how can you speak about heavy metal and not include Motorhead . I felt the same about the puink one and the glaring omission of The Stranglers .
First part I enjoyed immensely as I know little about Hendrix , Who , Stones etc , so it was a breath of fresh air .
The punk one was a major disappointment - The Slits never really played a major part but were included and it really only glossed over the subject , I imagine heavy metal fans feel the same about last night but I enjoyed it as I don't know so much about metal as I do about punk ( I visited here from the punk forum's a year or so ago ) .I enjoyed the one about Floyd , again a bit of an education for me there .
I think anyone who is into a particular genre will find the subject matter pretty bland , but for outsiders its quite interesting , hence my disappointment on the punk episode .
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Its expensive being poor
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Tony R
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: July 16 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 11979 |
Posted: June 10 2007 at 07:12 |
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One has to remember that this is the BBC and they probably either dont have the rights to show much footage or more likely the funds, so stick to bands that they have already got access to.
To suggest that Led Zep werent a crucial part of the history of heavy metal is ridiculous. In some repsect the ommisions and inclusions seemed to be designed to make Heavy Metal look as ridiculous as possible. Priest were a good band but to the ambivalent public they must have looked ridiculous and as for the Hair Metal bands, how could they be a more essential inclusion than bands like Zep, Rush, Motorhead, and virtually all the hard rock bands? |
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emdiar
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: June 05 2004 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 890 |
Posted: June 10 2007 at 07:15 |
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Jon the Impaler. So you're a punk eh? What do you think of my view that rather than wiping out Prog, punk was the b*****d offspring of bands like Hawkwind. Plus, i'm no punk, but Conflict's "Ungovernable Force" has always appealed to all my prog sensibilities. |
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Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact.
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: July 16 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 11979 |
Posted: June 10 2007 at 07:39 |
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It's quite obvious to anyone that Punk did not wipe out Prog - the journos just ignored it and thus it slipped out of the public conciousness.
If Punk was seen as a reaction to Prog then it follows that Punk must have been influenced by Prog...... |
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Jon The Impaler
Forum Groupie
Joined: July 10 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 42 |
Posted: June 10 2007 at 13:20 |
I like Hawkwind a lot , so yes there was probably some influence there . I don't think punk ever intended to wipe out prog and there's no way it could anyway , too many people liked it . It was a case of the new thing slating the old thing because it had to , just to show it ws different .... its all 30 years ago now anyway and both can happily exist in the same world , there is room for both . Nowadays I think all that thing with punks knocking the old order is well forgotten by punks , but probably not forgiven by progs ..... don't forget we were kids at the time , doing and saying things that you would expect from kids . As you get older you get wiser , I think , and have done for quite a few years that Pink Floyd were one of the best bands ever and certainly enjoyed the Seven ages episode on that one .... for everyone here pretty much it would be nothing special but for me it showe me things I hadn't seen . Like wise you would have seen stuff from the punk one that was nothing new to me. I've enjoyed them all so far with the exception of the disappointing punk one ..... oh well thats life .
Conflict - Ungovernable Force ....... well , that one was one uncompromising band and uncompromising album , don't think it would be appreciated too much on the prog forums .
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Its expensive being poor
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emdiar
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 05 2004 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 890 |
Posted: June 11 2007 at 15:24 |
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Despite the glaring omissions and exaggerated importance given to certain bands, I must admit to enjoying Iron Maiden and co. Even Judas Priest raised a smile. Motley Crew and Poison had me reaching for a sick bag, but I suddenly realise I have a soft spot for NWOBHM. Perhaps I always have had.
Edited by emdiar - June 11 2007 at 17:24 |
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Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact.
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salmacis
Forum Senior Member
Content Addition Joined: April 10 2005 Status: Offline Points: 3928 |
Posted: June 11 2007 at 15:42 |
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Yeah, that heavy metal one wasn't great. I think metal has so many different facets that it was always going to be hard to fit them all in, but I would have hoped for a better job than that. Too few bands mentioned (nothing after Metallica's 'Black Album'- I don't like the nu metal stuff but it merited a mention; they failed to convince that metal is still alive and well when the last album they featured was over 15 year old)- Zeppelin's placement in 'stadium rock' feels odd to me considering how much influence they had on metal/heavy rock, Van Halen and Kiss, the two most obvious influences on the hair/glam scene didn't get a namecheck, Guns N Roses and AC/DC got shunned too, influences on the key bands were not mentioned (Metallica have always been very open about their influences- they've recorded cover album projects and the like)....I could go on for ages. The only episode of this I thought that much of was the 'art rock' one, though I was pleased that prog didn't take a hammering in the punk one (the punk musicians I've never had an issue with as many seem broadminded, it's certain critics- check out this month's Uncut for another trotting out of the cliches in the blurb that accompanies the free CD; 'pompous', 'overblown', 'self indulgent', 'triple albums', 'long solos' etc.- don't they know any other words/phrases to describe the genre?? But I find Uncut to be one of the more conservative music mags with a lot of reverence to the usual sacred cows of rock- how many Beatles/Stones/Clash front covers have they had???).
I personally couldn't really care less what some supposedly hip/trendy critics think of heavy rock/metal- I'm not as concerned about 'cool' or image conscious as they obviously try so hard to be. I'd rather listen to what I love than be worried about whether my favourite albums are in Rolling Stone Magazine's interminable polls, or worse, the 'Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame'.... |
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emdiar
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 05 2004 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 890 |
Posted: June 11 2007 at 17:38 |
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John Lydon may have famously painted the words I HATE above the words Pink Floyd on a T-shirt he wore for gigs, but he was and remains an unabashed VDGG fan. Seems even prog's staunches critics can have a little prog shaped corner of their soul.
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Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact.
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fuxi
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: March 08 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2461 |
Posted: June 17 2007 at 13:07 |
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I skipped the episodes on Punk and Heavy Metal, but I loved yesterday's episode on "Stadium Rock", which seemed quite sympathetic towards all of the bands under discussion (mainly Queen, Springsteen, the Police and U2). Fascinating to see surviving members of these acts (the first four, at least) discussing their experiences intelligently. Silly corporate bands like Kiss and Bon Jovi took some flak, which was positive as well.
By the way, about prog on the BBC recently. Last week the journalist Jonathan Meades was visiting the country house of Stowe, and the programme made very funny use of the quiet "barrel organ" bit (isn't it called "Dance of the little puppets" or suffink?) from "In the Court of the Crimson King." But it had nothing to do with 1970s (or 1960s) nostalgia... |
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salmacis
Forum Senior Member
Content Addition Joined: April 10 2005 Status: Offline Points: 3928 |
Posted: June 17 2007 at 15:14 |
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This week's was better than last week's (the metal one was the poorest of the series, imho) but again, some omissions- ELP and Alice Cooper spring to mind. But really, it seemed more balanced and thorough than the metal one.
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mystic fred
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 13 2006 Location: Londinium Status: Offline Points: 4252 |
Posted: June 18 2007 at 05:09 |
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The "Stadium" episode had too little of Led Zep, one of the true real progenitors of Stadium Rock, and too much of Bruce Springsteen - perhaps you need to have been "Born in the USA" to really appreciate him, like Baseball, and you need to have been born in the UK to get the joke behind Queen's "I want to break free" video!
The Queen and Police bits were ok, though - but they only mentioned The Beatles at Shea Stadium very briefly, but where were The Who? surely they were the real Stadium kings?
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 23 2005 Location: Caerdydd Status: Offline Points: 32995 |
Posted: June 18 2007 at 05:14 |
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Didn't enjoy this episode much. Worst so far. I fast forwarded through Springsteen (yuck!) and Kiss.
Reminded me how brilliant U2 are though and I'n going to get out my Jushua Tree and Rattle And Hum again!
 BTW...You don't get bigger Stadium Rock tha Pink floyd, but I guess they were covered already.......a mention would have been nice though. Edited by Snow Dog - June 18 2007 at 05:15 |
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fuxi
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2461 |
Posted: June 18 2007 at 06:03 |
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I never had any problems with Springsteen's music, and that legendary performance of "Rosalita" still looks magical (who hired those girls?). I just don't enjoy the sight of Bruce prancing about on huge stages, pretending to be some sort of working class hero (and screaming "Two three FOUR" - so memorably parodied by Zappa on SHEIK YERBOUTI).
As for Queen, I've never taken them seriously, and I never will, but I love A NIGHT AT THE OPERA, and seeing Freddie work Wembley Stadium in London really makes me want to watch LIVE AID for the first time - would you recommend it? 
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A B Negative
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 02 2006 Location: Methil Republic Status: Offline Points: 1594 |
Posted: June 18 2007 at 06:12 |
If you can put up with the hairstyles and fashions (time has not been kind) then there's a lot of great performances. Avoid Bob Dylan with Keef Richards and Ron Wood!
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"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."
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salmacis
Forum Senior Member
Content Addition Joined: April 10 2005 Status: Offline Points: 3928 |
Posted: June 18 2007 at 15:55 |
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I do like Springsteen a lot- 'Born To Run' remains a favourite of mine. Kiss I admit to having a few albums- 'Alive' and 'Double Platinum'- but I rarely, if ever, play them anymore. U2 I never liked so much, but I was impressed with the Zoo TV show and they obviously belonged here. But yeah, Pink Floyd's omission was odd- it's the need to present this series as linear for every single category, without any possible crossover, which is one of its biggest flaws, imho.
I've never seen Live Aid as such (before my time
), but I did see a documentary on it just before Live8 of 2005 and it was fascinating viewing. Freddie Mercury was superb- he had the audience in the palm of his hand in a way you wouldn't see many modern rock stars ever manage (imho). There were some technical problems along the way- the transmission went off during The Who's 'My Generation' and there was sound problems during Paul McCartney's set. There were also some real howling bum notes from Simon LeBon of Duran Duran and Bono had a rather startling mullet, to say the least (possibly the worst I've ever seen on a rock star yet, alongside Billy Ray Cyrus
 )! But I really was amazed by how they pulled it off with just those mere handful of flaws- genuinely amazing. Phil Collins travelled between two venues- Philadelphia and Wembley- via Concorde and played them both, playing drums with Led Zeppelin as well as his solo slot- Zeppelin have not allowed their performance to be released on the accompanying DVD, though.I heard about Dylan's performance- didn't he mutter something on-stage about giving some of the money raised to American farmers??
They showed Genesis' performance at Wembley Stadium on BBC4, albeit much edited, after that. I have both that and the Queen one of the same era on DVD and I'll be controversial and say I prefer the Genesis one- there are some moments in the Queen Wembley performance which I find utterly snoozeworthy and imho, seem odd choices for a big stadium show (an impromptu jam session, Brian May's seemingly endless guitar solo).
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12817 |
Posted: June 24 2007 at 15:03 |
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Series: Grade C-, rewrite could do a lot better. Far from convinced by the their '7 Ages'.
Last night wasn't bad on grunge. But were they doing something not previous heard: analysing individual tracks of individual albums, after the fashion of the Making of Classic Rock Albums series? Surely that component of Episode 7 was a luxury considering the (limited) amount of time available for the whole series - does it suggest they had to pack it out because of lack of breadth? BTW what about Jeff Buckley and that other great, influential movement of the 90's influenced by reference to non-western music?? |
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CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
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salmacis
Forum Senior Member
Content Addition Joined: April 10 2005 Status: Offline Points: 3928 |
Posted: June 25 2007 at 14:41 |
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The last episode is this Saturday coming, about indie. The general consensus about this series is one of unanimous disappointment (there was one episode which I think was passable and that was the 'art rock' one, the only one which had any footage I wasn't aware of previously), looking around reviews and other forums. Viewing figures were far from great too, from what I've heard.
Radiohead are another massive omission from the 90s (and beyond) but Coldplay (who are followers, not leaders, imho) have been included- who was behind that??
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12817 |
Posted: June 26 2007 at 05:31 |
Reading the Sunday Mail's TV review magazine last night, I realised my mistake. Perhap it is wishful thinking that it had stopped last Saturday - the preview suggested the last episode on 90's alternative UK rock is going to be more about Madchester pop then rock. And as I said how does Jeff Buckley fit into things - do you mean there is no US or rest of the world alternative rock........!
Let rock pundits do this sort of thing and we suffer from selective tunnel vision? Edited by Dick Heath - June 26 2007 at 05:32 |
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The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
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salmacis
Forum Senior Member
Content Addition Joined: April 10 2005 Status: Offline Points: 3928 |
Posted: June 27 2007 at 08:45 |
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Unbelievably as well, the UK indie episode on Saturday has been awarded a 90 minute episode when every other genre was given a hour!!
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New BBC2 series- 'Seven Ages Of Rock'
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