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andu 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 27 2006
Location: Romania
Status: Offline
Points: 3089
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 Posted: June 24 2007 at 11:36 |
 laplace wrote:
(wish of the year: When are you guys going to get around to adding progressive soundtracks from films, TV series and video games? ;)
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When they get released on CD... I guess?
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Mandrakeroot
Forum Senior Member
Italian Prog Specialist
Joined: March 01 2006
Location: San Foca, Friûl
Status: Offline
Points: 5851
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Posted: June 24 2007 at 11:39 |
laplace wrote:
The site should remain the way it is and not become bitter over the prog-related category since it's obviously necessary to the site owners. Right? I can admit I value the efforts of the prog genre teams much more than PR additions, but I consider prog-related a bonus.
Although I've avoided the site for the past two weeks I'm thinking of applying to a team because I've become impressed by the way their members handle a steady flow of additions. =)
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Good reading, laplace!!!
Edited by Mandrakeroot - June 24 2007 at 11:40
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: June 24 2007 at 11:40 |
Mandrakeroot wrote:
Other present strangeness in PA: FAIRPORT CONVENTION!!!
If are present in a Prog site should be included in the Prog Folk... Otherwise they should not be included!!! (At present they are included like Prog Related!!!)
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hmm.... I thought they were straight folk and shouldn't have been included... but as I'm fond of saying... the sun still rise... and the sun still sets.... and Fairport reviews aren't knocking the latest DT album review off the main page hahhahah. Again... it really doesn't matter.. and to those who think they SHOULD be here... they are happy. see ... peaceful coexistance.... learn it.. love it.... live it  
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Mandrakeroot
Forum Senior Member
Italian Prog Specialist
Joined: March 01 2006
Location: San Foca, Friûl
Status: Offline
Points: 5851
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Posted: June 24 2007 at 11:42 |
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: June 24 2007 at 11:45 |
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: June 24 2007 at 11:47 |
andu wrote:
laplace wrote:
(wish of the year: When are you guys going to get around to adding progressive soundtracks from films, TV series and video games? ;)
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When they get released on CD... I guess?
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see Goblin ... Popol Vuh.. and god knows there are others hahha wait... video games? 
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laplace
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 06 2005
Location: popupControl();
Status: Offline
Points: 7606
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Posted: June 24 2007 at 11:58 |
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Micky, you'd be surprised. ;) I've dug deep (being a dork for cute stuff), and among certain games of a similar style there exist micropseudogenres of music that aren't really represented in any other area, that sort of sugary cute music built on complicated chansonesque 50s cabaret roots, and of course the fact that the bulk of the tunes are written so as to loop seamlessly brings a whole new type of invention to it all! ;) The only album currently on the archives that bears relation to the style is Wha-ha-ha's, and that's notoriously weird and delightful. Just a thought and my silly opinion. =)
Thanks for considering me for whichever team you meant and thanks to Mandrakeroot for agreeing with me. =)
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:02 |
I'm against any title change. As it is now we have many bands not strictly Prog and not strictly Rock, but thats fine. We have a core iof Prog Rock. A tile change would mean that virtually anything could be included, from Trance to Dance!  (it rhymed) and I believe dilute the site irrevocably.
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:04 |
Hello fellow progheads .. and fellow prog-related heads !
I just woke up after my second night shift, still one to go   .. but after reading the new posts in this thread, I AM AWAKE  !!!
As suggested earlier in this poll, I am gonna set up a poll, you will read about it soon and I hope you will join in the same great way as here in this thread, many thanks, I am glad that we have discussed without a too emotional or negative attitude, I did my best too, not always easy and now I am going to prepare an inclusion of The Stranglers (progressive punk), The Tubes (prog-related) and Journey (heavy progressive), that is my conclusion after reading the 8 pages in this thread....... or does this sound a bit too subjective ?
Edited by erik neuteboom - June 24 2007 at 12:08
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:15 |
We have no Progressive Punk here or "Heavy Progressive"( I prefer a term I have come up with anyway "Progressive Hard Rock".
Edited by Snow Dog - June 24 2007 at 12:16
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Mandrakeroot
Forum Senior Member
Italian Prog Specialist
Joined: March 01 2006
Location: San Foca, Friûl
Status: Offline
Points: 5851
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Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:15 |
erik neuteboom wrote:
Hello fellow progheads .. and fellow prog-related heads !
I just woke up after my second night shift, still one to go .. but after reading the new posts in this thread, I AM AWAKE !!!
As suggested earlier in this poll, I am gonna set up a poll, you will read about it soon and I hope you will join in the same great way as here in this thread, many thanks, I am glad that we have discussed without a too emotional or negative attitude, I did my best too, not always easy and now I am going to prepare an inclusion of The Stranglers (progressive punk), The Tubes (prog-related) and Journey (heavy progressive), that is my conclusion after reading the 8 pages in this thread....... or does this sound a bit too subjective ?
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Why, Erik? You will see how many reviews on these groups!!!
Edited by Mandrakeroot - June 24 2007 at 12:16
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Mandrakeroot
Forum Senior Member
Italian Prog Specialist
Joined: March 01 2006
Location: San Foca, Friûl
Status: Offline
Points: 5851
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Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:18 |
Snow Dog wrote:
We have no Progressive Punk here or "Heavy Progressive"( I prefer a term I have come up with anyway "Progressive Hard Rock". |
Why? aren't perhaps brand of the Art Rock?
Edited by Mandrakeroot - June 24 2007 at 12:19
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:19 |
That was a joke about The Stranglers, The Tubes and Journey (perhaps too much Double Dutch !), I prefer to use my time for focussing on genuine prog the forthcoming months.
Edited by erik neuteboom - June 24 2007 at 12:21
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:20 |
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Mandrakeroot
Forum Senior Member
Italian Prog Specialist
Joined: March 01 2006
Location: San Foca, Friûl
Status: Offline
Points: 5851
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Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:22 |
OOOOHHHH... 
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:29 |
Sorry for going parragraph by parragraph, but I believe you made a good post here.
clarke2001 wrote:
Many thanks, Andu. You interpreted it in much better way that I am able to do.
As for the other issues:
It seem that the major problem (well, certainly one of them) is which path prog-related (and unavoidable, the entire site) should go.
People are not only debating about for vs. against issue, sometimes if both sides are not against, they're arguing about the amount - that is, where to draw the line, and that could be a very bitter topic.
If they are really Prog Related, I have no problem, but most of the bands being added lately have no relation, just POP, Blues or Jazzy bands that IMO shouidn't be here, but I trust the Admiistrators, they are very capable to decide.
I only believe we should give priority to Prog bands, the Prog Related bands will fall anyway here.
(As a sidenote, I don't think Police should be here, but I noticed members suggesting them for PR more than once)
Thanks God for that , and preople has proposed the Bee Gees, but the Administrators decided not even to taje them seriously.
Anyway, I think we agree when a say that every inclusion should be examined thoughtfully, 200% in the case of prog-related.
 Again I agree.But I also think that for every prog-related band at least 100 prog bands should be added. You may call me a hypocrite, saying that I care more about Prog bands than PR, and wasting my time on countless debates on forum. While I'm writing this, I could have write two reviews, or one biography, or add one album or two...but that's not only the case with me I guess.
Then we are fa behind with Blue Oyster Cult, Rainbow, Super Furry Animals, Kate Bush, etc, we should at least have 400 100% bands It's a sad thing: I noticed more than once that our admins/colabs are saying something like XYZ band should be added to prog-related, but now it's not the appropriate moment. Appropriate moment?
I believe that is a kind way of saying they don't believe it should be added, but lets wait for them to say so.
I understand that urge, but isn't that sad? Instead of people collaborating on this site have to worry only about music...but no...they have to worry about politics too...
Well, every site has a policy, for example if a wrong band is added, it can't be deleted (Except extreme cases), we may agree or not, but that's not our call, the owners mark the policy of their site and we must accept it.
Site's policy should be re-evaulated and defined once for all...otherwise the major tension will be reluctant approval of PR's existance, and even expansion, but it will always stay between some kind of curtains, or fig's leaf, you name it. We do not deserve that tension, none of our hard-working collaborators do, we don't need it on the web site with huge popularity and good reputation.
The policy has changed:
- First, a band required the majority of their releases to be Prog
- Then just a part of it
- Now they only need one 100% Prog abum for a main sub-genre and a clear relation with Prog to be included in PR
I can live with that, I don't believe it's perfect, but it0's their choice ad I respect it and try to work with that, I believe we have changed enough and no need to accept more bands that have no DIRECT relation with Prog.
To the hell with all that. Ivan, thanks for pointing out and lighting some issues, and many thanks for your feedback about the list of prog bands! I'll PM you as soon as I gather complete, useful data for some symphonic bands that deserve to be introduced first...
I been checking your list (Well, the ones wh have websites) there are a couple of very good additions for other genres but others that even their sites admmnit they are not Prog, there's a lot of material to work with, it's only required to sort it.
Really a great piece of work.
As sumary, I believe we don't disagree in the fundamenbtal issues, it's mostly a matter of degrees.
Iván
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1800iareyay
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2492
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Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:31 |
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Why does this discussion never cease? Ever since I joined purists complain about the very existence of the prog-related genre. Why does it bother you so much? Now DT is getting blamed for being too popular here. That's is so f&^%ing stupid. Yes, Dream Theater garners more attention thatn, say, Amon Duul. Them's the breaks. Are you suggesting we throw out the kings of progressive metal just because you're sick of seeing them? Bands like Zeppelin and The Who have had profound impact on prog becuase they have had profound impact on music in general. The Who were the first to incorporate the idea of theater into rock. That's quite a big part of progressive music. Stop focusing on bands you think taint the perceived perfect prog blood of the site and just have fun. That's why the site exists.
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Mandrakeroot
Forum Senior Member
Italian Prog Specialist
Joined: March 01 2006
Location: San Foca, Friûl
Status: Offline
Points: 5851
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Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:56 |
erik neuteboom wrote:
That was a joke about The Stranglers, The Tubes and Journey (perhaps too much Double Dutch !), I prefer to use my time for focussing on genuine prog the forthcoming months. |
Why? For me The Stranglers are good like Punk Prog band (and in fact this is!!!). However introduced from you they has been not credible!!!    (This is the reason because this is a bad day in my house... So I go to do myself a  [  included] It hoping to find refreshment!!! AAAhhh... But the voice of Sandy denny and the music of Fairport Convention It is a good refreshment... Even if it works really too little!!!)
Edited by Mandrakeroot - June 24 2007 at 12:59
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: June 24 2007 at 18:06 |
1800iareyay wrote:
Why does this discussion never cease? Ever since I joined purists complain about the very existence of the prog-related genre. Why does it bother you so much?
Nobody complains about the existence of Prog Related, some of us disagree withe the ABUSE of Prog Related, if a band is really related with Prog add them but if it's not clear or influenced everybody else, it's not a Prog Related band, it's an influential band in Rock as The Who, The Rolling Stones, The Animals, etc, which don't belong here.
You say purist as a bad word, well it's not, I'm one of them and I'm proud of it. If Prog has survived more popular genres like Punk, New Age or Disco is because the fans are faithful to the sound, Prog has managed to keep the identity almost intact, the day we start to accept everything as Prog Related, that identity will be lost.
Now DT is getting blamed for being too popular here. That's is so f&^%ing stupid. Yes, Dream Theater garners more attention thatn, say, Amon Duul. Them's the breaks. Are you suggesting we throw out the kings of progressive metal just because you're sick of seeing them?
Nobody is against Dream Theater or Prog Metal (Well, maybe a few), they are Prog and they deserve to be here, but you are pretty new, several weeks before Octavarium was added, we had at least 50 reviews giving Octavarium 5 stars, and the lamest thing is that people was rating a LaBrie album that was rounding the net.
Now that's really fuc*ing stupid.
Bands like Zeppelin and The Who have had profound impact on prog becuase they have had profound impact on music in general.
Let me tell you a secret....Prog Archives is not suposed to be a general music site, it's a Progressive Rock site, we should care about bands that influenced PROG, that are related to PROG, that are almost PROG, not bands that influenced everybody.
In that case lets add Chuck Berry, Little Richard and Elvis Presley, they had impact in all Rock, but then we would have to change the name to Non Prog Archives.
Don't laugh, it's exactly the same argument you're giving.
The Who were the first to incorporate the idea of theater into rock. That's quite a big part of progressive music.
Yes???? Are you sure??? When????
Not even the first Rock Opera, "Then an Alley" was released by Tito Schipa, Jr. in 1967 who adapted 18 Bob Dylan's songs to an Opera and stage format.
Theatrics? The Who were never specially theatrical on stage, Arthur Brown, The Bonzo Dog Band and even David Bowie were doing theatrics before The Who.
BTW: One element does not make a band Prog or Prog Related, there's theatric in almost every Rock genre.
Stop focusing on bands you think taint the perceived perfect prog blood of the site and just have fun. That's why the site exists.
Yes, we're here to have fun but focussing in PROGRESSIVE ROCK, the huge majority of members joines Prog Archives because WE LOVE PROG, if not we would be members of a general Rock site.
This is PROG ARCHIVES, created to be a PROG resource, there are a lot of general Rock sites that you can join to dedicate to all the genres, but this is not one.
Iván
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: June 24 2007 at 18:47 |
Ivan, you sound like a progrock missionary with your wish to us collaborators to add as much as possible genuine progrock bands but you seem to underestimate the fact that since the inclusion of bands like The Beatles, The Doors, Talk Talk, JM Jarre, Iron Maiden, Blue Oyster Cult, Tool and Magnum, Prog Archives cannot stop the increasing demand for more non-prog bands. You should prepare yourself for that and be aware that this is no longer an exclusive progrock site, it has turned into a prog music site.
About The Bee Gees: their very early work is way more progressive and interesting than many non-prog bands on this site so watch out for cynical remarks, it would be great if Prog Archives offers a possibility to add only the progressive work of the early The Bee Gees, they were part of the progressive rock movement in the late Sixties/early Seventies 
Edited by erik neuteboom - June 24 2007 at 18:48
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