Liberal Or Conservative? |
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thellama73
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8368 |
Posted: June 01 2007 at 22:23 | ||||||
I'm a conservative libertarian to whom the writings of Ayn Rand make a lot of sense. Please don't hate me because I'm different than you!
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Novalis
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 15 2007 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 338 |
Posted: June 01 2007 at 22:29 | ||||||
^^^I'm pretty conservative in my beliefs and I have libertarian tendencies also.
Edit: What is your opinion of Ron Paul? Edited by Novalis - June 01 2007 at 22:35 |
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rileydog22
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 24 2005 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 8844 |
Posted: June 01 2007 at 22:49 | ||||||
Conservative libertarian? Those seem like incompatable terms. Could you explain your position? |
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 21 2004 Location: plugged-in Status: Offline Points: 5502 |
Posted: June 01 2007 at 23:30 | ||||||
it's actually both the same isn't it?
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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Novalis
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 15 2007 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 338 |
Posted: June 01 2007 at 23:33 | ||||||
Well if you think about it, far left Marxism is about as far from libertarianism as you can get.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: June 01 2007 at 23:46 | ||||||
I am a progressive conservative libertarian populist.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Online Points: 20240 |
Posted: June 02 2007 at 06:44 | ||||||
Agreed Novalis! There is no way there is a redundance between these extremes.
No way far left politics tend to force out individualism in order to reinforce the community's equality.
Libartarians are openly individualist and close to anarchism by their hate of structures.
At least that's my comprehension.
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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debrewguy
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 30 2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3596 |
Posted: June 02 2007 at 13:37 | ||||||
I would say that right wing politics tend to force out individualism in order to enforce the community's homogeneity. Left & right wing (sounds like a hockey forward line missing the centre) both share this thinking, "Don't rock the boat, if you know what's good for you". |
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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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tardis
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 02 2005 Location: Victoria, BC Status: Offline Points: 14378 |
Posted: June 02 2007 at 13:57 | ||||||
I still think politics is a farce and a waste of time. Yeah, sure, maybe you can get some change, but only based on the issues presented. If there are REAL issues at hand, you have to petition your ass off to get them to take notice, and ONLY if others are willing to support your idea(s). Of course, you can go it alone, but who wants to be a crusader every time something needs doing. Show me a politician who can create effective and truly positive change, and I'll show some interest! |
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ClassicRocker
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 02 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 894 |
Posted: June 03 2007 at 01:24 | ||||||
I completely agree with your first statement (I may be generalizing about social conservatives - in America - but I find it ironic that you included a word with "homo-" in it when talking about right-wing politics ).
In regards to your second statement I'm not so sure. Some things that stand out in my mind are "Liberal" organizations like the A.C.L.U. (=), which seem to "rock the boat" quite a bit (with so many people being "offended" and whatnot). I'm sure there are other examples (like of conservative groups that "rock the boat")... just can't think of any at the moment.
And on a different note:
No hating! Personally I really liked Ayn Rand's views (but I am only familiar with some of her opinions on existence and knowledge... not so much politically). Edited by ClassicRocker - June 03 2007 at 01:29 |
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Online Points: 20240 |
Posted: June 03 2007 at 06:24 | ||||||
Actually I wouldn't go too far as saying that the entire right wing politics is repressing individualism. This might be so a bit in the conservateur scope of right wing politics and a lot in the extreme right realm, but certainly not in the liberal rightwing, where you are encouraged to be different and succeed as much as possible.
I meant that individualism being repressed by the left wing is more like the economic freedom. They will tend to scrape up your exceeding cash flow to give it to the needy (and the leaches profitting from the system).
Liberal or Entrepreneurial right wing politics is all for people wanting to show that they are better than their neighbours by building a bigger pool and owning a Rolls instead of a Jag.
Conservateur will disapprove of one of their comlmunity acting like that , but as long as the money is given to the church to shut the pastor/minister up, he will dismiss this weakness as humanly and avoid drying up the source of providence >>> now there is a shot below the belt!!!! Edited by Sean Trane - June 03 2007 at 06:26 |
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: June 03 2007 at 18:22 | ||||||
These terms kinda annoy me. You can claim to be ANYTHING and have a serious philosiphy backing you up. Once as a joke I said I was a libertarian communist, and someone on this forum really was!
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ClassicRocker
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 02 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 894 |
Posted: June 03 2007 at 23:32 | ||||||
Very true, there are some extremely ridiculous combos of political "philosophies". Maybe too many non-comformists? Don't want to categorize themselves?
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thellama73
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8368 |
Posted: June 04 2007 at 12:43 | ||||||
Allow me to clarify. I believe in capitalism, the free market, economic liberty. I believe in small government, bordering on no government. I believe in lowering taxes. All of these are traditionally conservative positions, at least in the USA. I also believe in social liberty, such as the right to smoke (democrats are the ones who take this away) the right to bear arms (conservative). I also believe in gay rights and legalizing drugs, which one place where I differ from conservatives, but those are not my highest priority issues. In my opinions, liberals want to restrict our freedoms in order to increase social equality. Conservatives also want to limit our freedoms, but it's not so blatant or severe. At leaast that's my view. |
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ClassicRocker
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 02 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 894 |
Posted: June 04 2007 at 13:57 | ||||||
So how exactly do conservatives want to restrict our freedoms on a "lower level" than liberals? examples?
(not arguing.. just discussing) Edited by ClassicRocker - June 04 2007 at 13:57 |
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thellama73
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8368 |
Posted: June 04 2007 at 15:47 | ||||||
I guess it depends on which freedoms you value the most. For example, I think that marikuana should be legal, but I don't like marijuana or people that use it, so if conservatives want to ban it, it doesn't upset me as much as income redistribution as supported by the democrats.
I don't support government subsidies of anything. Conservatives want to subsidize big business, liberals want to subsidize everything else. And one of the most frightening things to me about the democratic party is their value of political correctness over freedom. When an employer is forced, forced mind you, to keep giving money to someone to do a job that they don't want them to do, simply because of their race, religion, or sexual orientation, I think we have a big problem. (In case it's not clear I'm referring to anti-discrimination laws such as affirmative action.) On the whole I can think of many more examples of liberal restrictions on freedom than of conservative ones. But as I said, that's just my opinion. |
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ClassicRocker
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 02 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 894 |
Posted: June 04 2007 at 17:51 | ||||||
^^^ Valid points, but in the end this is all subjective (like our musical tastes.. no-one's right, yet everyone is). Honestly, I consider myself more liberal than conservative (but that doesn't mean I believe what they all do; I have my own beliefs and more of them just happen to fall into that category).
In that vein of thought I HATE the "PC police". I'm sick and tired of everyone bending over backwards so that they don't "offend" anyone. Sure, we have the basics I believe are neccessary to follow: like don't be racist or don't make insults out of sexual orientation, but the problem lies beyond that. People are getting afraid to speak their minds as to not offend, yet virtually anything one says, does, or makes has the potential of "offending" someone in this world.
In all seriousness, political satires like Borat help to fight this by saying what they want and being "offensive" in order to get their points across and expose real problems like ignorance in America (and parts of the rest of the world as well).
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Syzygy
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 16 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 7003 |
Posted: June 04 2007 at 18:11 | ||||||
Political correctness is a phantom invented by a largely conservative media establishment to justify the perpetuation of old bigotries. The PC police don't exist, but maybe people are just a little more sensitive about racism, sexism and homophobia these days. Call me a humourless, freedom hating old git if you like, but I don't see this as a bad thing. In the UK press virtually every story about Political Correctness Gone Mad has proved to be completely fictitious, from London primary schools banning Baa Baa Black Sheep (they didn't) to Winterval replacing Christmas so as not to offend Muslims (It was a business initiative in the mid 90s, nothing to do with PC) to schoolchildren singing Baa Baa Rainbow Sheep so as to be PC (they were learning different colours, including black). Sacha Baron Cohen, the man behind Ali G and Borat, did not intend his creations to be anti PC, but rather to expose the inherent bigotries and hypocrisies that are all too prevalent in contemporary Western societies. Read this quote from the man himself:
If you think that Borat is a blow against PC you have missed the point, and indeed the joke.
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'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
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thellama73
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8368 |
Posted: June 04 2007 at 20:26 | ||||||
You humorless, freedom hating old git!
But seriously, I'm all for being nice and not trying to offend people, but when the government makes laws that put people in prison for not agreeing with what is deemed politically correct it really makes me worry. |
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Novalis
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 15 2007 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 338 |
Posted: June 05 2007 at 01:59 | ||||||
Because we all know mocking a race is the best way to combat racism. |
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