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ClassicRocker
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 894
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Topic: Liberal Or Conservative? Posted: May 20 2007 at 16:13 |
So, PA members, which one are you?
[Note - because i cannot cover everyone's specific political leanings, consider the "Liberal" side meaning "Left" (and wanting to facilitate change: progressive), and "Conservative" meaning "Right" (and wanting a natural progression of societal change: traditionalist) of the political spectrum in your respective countries or regions]
Edited by ClassicRocker - May 27 2007 at 20:35
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Syzygy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 16 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 7003
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Posted: May 20 2007 at 16:15 |
Socialist. Not liberal, not even very liberal, but unreconstructed socialist lefty.
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'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'
Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom
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laplace
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 06 2005
Location: popupControl();
Status: Offline
Points: 7606
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Posted: May 20 2007 at 16:15 |
clicked on V. Lib but I almost clicked on tool ;P I don't really care about this stuff and can't work up the enthusiasm to do anything other than be slightly derisive about politicians, but when I take the quizzes I'm always left of Gandhi.
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Proletariat
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 30 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1882
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Posted: May 20 2007 at 16:18 |
I are a Libertarian Communist, I reallize someone will say that is an oxymoron, F**** you look it up its real, and you don't understand Communism.
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who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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WaywardSon
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 23 2006
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 2537
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Posted: May 20 2007 at 16:21 |
I voted Moderate (maybe leaning slightly left)
Conservatives and Liberals irritate me
Edited by WaywardSon - May 20 2007 at 16:23
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20240
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Posted: May 20 2007 at 16:25 |
Again the same old American misonception.
Liberals are right wing everywhere in the world , except in the US, where they are considered the next worst left to communism
You'd expect them to get right after decades being told.
Edited by Sean Trane - May 20 2007 at 16:26
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let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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Vompatti
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: elsewhere
Status: Offline
Points: 67407
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Posted: May 20 2007 at 16:45 |
"We won't vote conservative, because we never have."
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: May 20 2007 at 16:54 |
Sean Trane wrote:
Again the same old American misonception.
Liberals are right wing everywhere in the world , except in the US, where they are considered the next worst left to communism
You'd expect them to get right after decades being told.
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but from that reference point, Conservatives are even more right wing.
In the UK the (old) Liberal party was the centre party. Now they are called the Liberal Democrats, and are concidered to be center on economics and left on social issues.
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What?
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
Site Admin
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 35847
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Posted: May 20 2007 at 17:00 |
I might describe myself as a social democrat with libertarian and anarchic tendencies. I had my fling with Marxism, and am socialist in many regards. On the whole I'm a "moderate".
Ah semantics...
Here being Liberal is not considered left-wing (our Liberal party is hardly left-wing, I'd say it (more than) tends to be on the right). Some consider it a more centrist position -- liberal can mean generous and non-prejudiced/ open-minded/ tolerant of course. As a political term it traditionally means
favouring individual liberty, free trade, and moderate political and
social reform, which are aspects of Conservatism. Conservativism is often called Neo-Liberalism, by the
way.
But there are different ways to define things, especially depending on where you live, and meanings change over time.
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Arsillus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7374
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Posted: May 20 2007 at 19:58 |
I am a moderate libertarian.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: May 20 2007 at 20:31 |
Sean Trane wrote:
Again the same old American misonception.
Liberals are right wing everywhere in the world , except in the US, where they are considered the next worst left to communism
You'd expect them to get right after decades being told.
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That's another misconception, as the world doesn't end in Europe and the US. ... in South America, Conservatives are usually ancient landowners, church-going traditionals. But their vision of the economy is actually not that close to the one of the Republican Party, for example, as they still see some good in the existence of the State (as opposed to the Republicans -speciall reaganites- who would love to see the goverment only taking care of foreign issues). In South America, liberals are misunderstood. There are the so-called "neo-liberals", which sometimes are really the conservatives ( ) which want a stronger market, and the traditional liberals, who want even more government but don't quite agree with an economic system! People in South America, specially in Andean countries, have been lied and told that we live in capitalism, which couldn't be any more far from the truth, as we don't have a lot of the requisites for a true free market and issues like monopoly, oligopoly and other "polies" still exist, along with something called "cacicazgo" (the figure of a powerful, messianic leader which everybody follows...).... There's also POPULISM, which americans hardly know. That's a non-ideological ideology ( believe me, that's a way of saying it) where everything is done to the please the masses while not changing their situation one bit. And, finally, what you call "left wing" in Southamerica is divided into two: those who think more socialist goverments like those in Europe are needed (Social Market Economy, an oxymoron but what can I do), but never quite figuring out HOW to go there, and the dinosaurs, the true LEFT wing, those that didn't sleep properly and still believe in Marx, Engels, Lenin, Trotsky, Mao, Castro and the Prophet for the Ones who Fail and Envy, "Che" Guevara.
Oh how we would love to have your bi-partisan societies! Where you have reached a point where you can divide most people's views in 5 or 6 main directions like this poll does....
By the way, I'm a weird libertarian. .... I'm all for ABSOLUTE LIBERTY of everything (including doing yourself harm), ZERO CHURCH (even if I believe in some Bigger Thing, whatever it may be, I ABHORR most religion-imposed "morals", as those are the morals of the ANTI-HUMAN)... but at the same time, I want strong enough governments that can DO SOMETHING.
Whatever I just said, I hope you'll get it.
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rushaholic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 13 2005
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1138
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Posted: May 20 2007 at 20:42 |
Conservative - with strong libertarian leanings.
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BroSpence
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 05 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 2614
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Posted: May 20 2007 at 21:15 |
I'm liberalish, but I think parties are stupid and political classifications even stupider because it is all one big mess of names mashed together because no one actually fits into a specific ideology. Just believe what you believe and don't worry whether you're a neo-libertarian-lenninist or democratic-hegalian-baggabagggabaaaaa.
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debrewguy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 30 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3596
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Posted: May 20 2007 at 21:53 |
Would it suffice for both sides to admit that they have sometimes gotten things wrong, and that the other side have occasionally been right ? Shouldn't the past 50 years have taught us that "ideology" deals with theory, not reality.
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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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tardis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: Victoria, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 14378
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Posted: May 20 2007 at 21:58 |
I believe I fit into the "none of the above" category. I do have political opinions, and that to sum them up would be to make some sort of statement along the lines of, "99% of politics is bullsh*t". A politician who generally cares about "the people" is far and few between.
In other words, I'm very disillusioned with politics in general. Especially here in Canada.
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ClassicRocker
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 894
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Posted: May 20 2007 at 22:26 |
Vompatti wrote:
"We won't vote conservative, because we never have." |
Nice. I like that
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rileydog22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 8844
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Posted: May 20 2007 at 22:28 |
I hate the entire party system. The entire basis is flawed; nobody thinks EXACTLY the same as the party on every issue. I'm liberal on some issues, conservative on others. If you follow the party on every issue, then YOU are the one who is a tool. Either get an opinion or stop pretending to have one.
Edited by rileydog22 - May 20 2007 at 22:29
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ClassicRocker
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 894
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Posted: May 20 2007 at 22:31 |
BroSpence wrote:
I'm liberalish, but I think parties are stupid and political classifications even stupider because it is all one big mess of names mashed together because no one actually fits into a specific ideology. Just believe what you believe and don't worry whether you're a neo-libertarian-lenninist or democratic-hegalian-baggabagggabaaaaa. |
I think you and some others are missing the point a little. Liberals and conservatives, etc AREN'T TIED TO ANY PARTY and it's not stupid to use them, because these terms (along with many others) are just means of classifying your views (for the sake of convenience and in order to generalize about PA's members).
I agree, believe what you believe, but that's why i put the "Tool" option, because believe it or not there are people that don't have a personal ideology and think what they are TOLD to think.
P.S. Stupider =
rileydog22 wrote:
I hate the entire party system. The entire basis is flawed; nobody thinks EXACTLY the same as the party on every issue. I'm liberal on some issues, conservative on others. If you follow the party on every issue, then YOU are the one who is a tool. Either get an opinion or stop pretending to have one. |
A little angry, bud? Just pick an option closest to what you believe. By the sounds of it, you are moderate. Ta-da.
As i said above, these ideologies aren't parties, and they are meant to REFLECT your opinion, not give one to you.
Edited by ClassicRocker - May 21 2007 at 00:14
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Atomic_Rooster
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1210
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Posted: May 20 2007 at 22:35 |
rileydog22 wrote:
I hate the entire party system. The entire basis is flawed; nobody thinks EXACTLY the same as the party on every issue. I'm liberal on some issues, conservative on others. If you follow the party on every issue, then YOU are the one who is a tool. Either get an opinion or stop pretending to have one.
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...you could just make your own party... but I agree with you, a party is merely a front for blanketing issues and ideas for the masses, which isn't the most effective form of government. Anyways, I didn't and won't vote because I am neither conservative nor liberal, nor am I moderate. I'm more of a radical or archradical if you will, because I will one day overthrow the government of America and then rule supreme (after taking over the rest of the world of course) and then we won't have these confusing issues to debate over, because everyone loves me
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I am but a servant of the mighty Fripp, the sound of whose loins shall forever be upon the tongues of his followers.
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: May 21 2007 at 07:58 |
Social liberal (as in the European version of the term), with environmental concerns.
Edited by Philéas - May 21 2007 at 07:59
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