News from Nick Barrett (Pendragon)

I think the downloading problem is the attitude this current generation has. I get made fun of at school because I go out and buy albums that I want to listen to instead of illegally downloading. All my friends have a "if it's in the public viewing then it's okay to download" and they don't even consider that someone put time and effort into that product and that they are stealing. I don't even want to tell them what artists I listen to because I know they will just download it and then my recommendations will become part of the problem.

I do my best by making sure my small contribution goes to the artist by buying legitimately.

As my chemistry teacher put it (WARNING: very bad chemistry pun going to follow):




"Don't be part of the precipitate, be part of the solution"

In case you stop back again Nick, I'm wond'ring how much (if any) airplay "No Place for the Innocent" got. I really think it deserved a good amount of play, but I have a sneaking suspicion most stations wouldn't give it the time of day! 

And prog-chick, I don't want to leave you with the intention I plan to download and never repay. I do it to find out new bands mostly, and I will surely get around to purchasing the item sooner or later. I don't like digital music, and I prefer to have the real thing, but it suffices until I have enough cash. Believe me, if I don't spend my roughly $25 a week on movies at the theater, it's on CDs. And for bands who release material I know I will love, like Pendragon, Porcupine Tree, Rush, Dream Theater, Marillion, IQ, etc., I'm sure to buy their albums ASAP. I find downloading cheapens the "awe factor" of a new album purchase, so I have a natural mind to not download. But in this world of rare and obscure music, I'm really not in a financial position to take risks on albums that aren't what i think are sure things. I like a lot of prog, but not enough to be sure that anything will make me happy.

Just so you know my stance. The last thing I want to do is to have musicians suffer from me not buying their albums, but through recommendations and albums found on blogs, I can get better knowledge of obscure bands. And even if that band doesn't please me, it will surely please someone else. Most likely James that conniving RIO fanatic.

Glueman wrote: I've said it a thousand times but it's worth re-iterating.   I never download, other than approved songs from the artist's website to try. I never buy second hand CDs and I do not lend or borrow CDs. I only ever buy new CDs and then never from a big chainstore, although I do buy all mine over the net. So that is sometimes from large companies like Amazon - but not prog, only mainstream. My prog comes from specialist suppliers or direct from band's websites.   I understand full well the implications of getting "free" music and what that means to Nick and other artists, and that is the main reason for taking the stance that I have. The other, important to me, reason is that I, quite simply, will not break the law. There is nothing clever about illegality - without obeying laws society is screwed and we will all suffer the consequences. What's the point in having principles and not sticking to them?   I know a lot of people who do not share my opinions will mock my "holier than thou" attitude. Well tough - I could not care less, mock all you like. It's quite simple - the more I adhere to legality on this issue, the more likely it is that people like Nick will be able to continue making the sort of music I like. Without him, and his kind, music, and life  would be that much poorer.   I'm not after praise - I know that I wouldn't get it anyway, but I think it's important for all of us who believe in honesty to make a stand and let artists know that some of us are with them.

The problem with this, is that you're missing out on a lot of wonderful OOP music that you can only get second-hand.

Geck0 wrote: The problem with this, is that you're missing out on a lot of wonderful OOP music that you can only get second-hand.

Edited by Glueman - May 17 2007 at 03:00

Great to see you posting here Nick!

Hi E Dub, we have worked with Greg for many years and know he is a top guy, we sell directly to him, and out of a typical CD we sell to him I guess we would get in the area of $9 + shipping [more for a DVD..but then our costs are higher for DVDs so...] but it depends on the title/current exchange rates etc. This a fair price. It is true to say dealers do make good money on their sales I think , but it can be a helluva risky business in some cases as people like Greg take our stuff on a 'finished product ' basis...ie: he pays for everything he orders, not like some distributors who only pay for what they sell [and return the rest if sales slow up,,,, but they often sell bigger amounts, so it's swings and roundabouts mate!]
We also understand that people like Greg have a good reputation and folk will feel comfortable buying from him, which in turn is important to us too. It's about a kind of 'long distance team work'...without the likes of Greg, we wouldn't get the number of sales...so it's good for us that people will get cds from either us or from Greg.

Glueman said "So, keep buying from bands but also keep using indies like Greg Walker, Doug Larson and UK's Malcolm Parker at GFT/Cyclops"

Quite right too...for us at least this is good , because personally I like dealing with people who take an interest in what we do, they usually know one or two radio stations who they will talk into playing some prog, and like Greg put on things like Progfest, this is how the prog life force survives, one big network that ebbs and flows!

Easy Livin: Phew....have you got a couple of hours mate??? While I think Antonia [the producer] was very brave to show the so called 'teen tycoons' disregard for musical integrity, you have to remember the level of 'staging' in programmes like these, it is unbelievable! Eg:, Michael, the guy who was pushing the Rock School idea, said to me when the cameras were off, "geeeeeezzzz....pleeeeeease don't think this was MY IDEA!!!!!!"...ha ha ha.....hotdog!!!!! Also, these guys were not quite as big tycoons as you might think, one of them only 'turning over' TURNING OVER £50k a year...that really is not 'tycoon status' in my book!!!!! They were cheerfully hopeless with people and team building, they were very young and had no real life experiences, for them getting money was king, they wouldn't last a year in a band where you have sooooo many considerations to take into account. Like diplomacy, building loyalty, working well when the chips are down, utter belief...the list could go on forever.
The programme made me look like 'not a very good business man', but actually I am. Pendragon did very well in the late 80's and 90's , this was when I took over from our then managers from a £12k debt and started Toff Records, got a distribution deal with Pinnacle in the UK [the UK's largest independent distributors] I also negotiated the return of all our publishing copyrights from Charisma Publishing [so we now fully own all the rights to our songs] and negotiated with EMI for the license to re release The Jewel, 9.15 Live and The Rest Of. In the 90's Pendragon was financially extremely strong, and getting stronger as we could afford to make regular albums, go touring and even got to the point where we were doing major radio advertising campaigns on Virgin and Capital Radio.
Why I don't come over a a good businessman on the programme is probably because I don't like greed...one little bit, or ripping off kids, or being mercenary, in my view a good businessman is someone who can judge a situation and act accordingly and fairly, it takes a lot more than, being mercenary, loudmouthed , hard on fellow human beings and lacking integrity, of course there are those that are...but I don't like them!
What they didn't say in the programme regarding the Rock School for example was:
A] down the road in Swindon [2 miles away] there is a brilliant Rock School already running with proper teachers and equipment and lots of rooms as they used the local college, for this they charged £50 a term, so about once a week for 12 weeks say. The Teen Tycoons thought I should charge £20 a lesson per person, costing the kids £240 each for the same 12 week period......sorry but this is just plain incompetent pie in the sky day dreamer talk!

B ] Michael said on the programme that because I refused to charge the kids, I lost out on £600 or thereabouts, which makes it sound like, 'wow, what an idiot...he just said goodbye to £600 in one day'...what they didn't tell you is that their figures just don't stack up, out of the five people we did have doing the rock school assuming they would have paid £20 each for 2 days would have been £200. Again...utter incompetent pie in the sky day dreamer talk!

C] Someone asked why, if we were not going to follow their advice did we go to the teens tycoons in the first place.
Simple...it was free telly! We need all the exposure we can get, when they first approached us they said the programme was about businesses that has been going a long time that had hit some problems due to unforeseen circumstances......perfect we thought, we can talk about how record sales have suffered under the realm of free illegal downloading, oddly enough, they were not the slightest bit interested in this factor, as you can see it is not even mentioned in the programme.

What I think the teen tycoons didn't realise is that Pendragon is a sturdy beast that has been through good and bad, and survived for 30 years, I take responsibility for 99% of our troubles....one has to take responsibility for oneself, good or bad , ups and downs, it, I believe is the essence of life!
I do however think Pendragon will still be churning out tunes long after those teen tycoons are dribbling away to themselves in an old people's home sucking on a digestive biscuit through a straw with a cup of milky tea!

Hi Nick, a few months ago there was another Channel 4 show called 'Get Your Act Together' where Harvey Goldsmith took some supposedly flagging careers and tried to resurrect them. One show had NWOBHM legends Saxon. I didn't see the show (the finale of 'Life On Mars' was on..) but apparently, Saxon and their management were made to look utterly incompetent at the hands of Channel 4 as well. Apparently, Marillion were approached for this too but they turned it down...

Edited by salmacis - May 17 2007 at 15:16

Yes, the OOP thing is something of a burden but yes, the best thing to do is to wait for a reprint. I often look at DVDs/CDs on EBay that are deleted/hard to find now and they tend to go for silly prices and I can't be doing with that...

Edited by salmacis - May 17 2007 at 16:15

Thanks for taking the time and answering my question, Nick. Best of luck to you and the band. I thoroughly enjoy Pendragon's music and hope it endures. Also, I'll do my best in supporting the band, as I'm sure countless others from this site (and beyond) will, too.

My personal favorites:
Not Of This World
Masquerade Overture
Believe

E

Edited by E-Dub - May 19 2007 at 22:21