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Peter 
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 Posted: May 10 2007 at 21:40 |
 Atomic_Rooster wrote:
The problem with prog metal is that it smells bad. |
I just don't like the way it sounds. 
Seriously, I don't mind the "prog" part -- it's the metal part I just don't like.
I can't like everything. Why expect all prog fans to also be metal fans? 
 You're welcome to it, though, and the genre seems to sell just fine -- even without my support. 
(Thus it has no "problem" -- it has found a large, appreciative audience.)
This thread again, eh? 
Edited by Peter - May 10 2007 at 21:41
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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valravennz
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Posted: May 10 2007 at 22:08 |
Prog Metal encompasses different styles of Metal music. My preference is towards the symphonic, gothic type metal where more often than not there is structure in the music that IMO is closer to "progressive" rock music than some of the other styles.which incorporate large amounts of blast beat, thrash or speed and lots of "growls" in the vocal's department. I am not a big fan of that type of metal. I know many of you would disagree with my sentiments.
However, there is a place for metal in PA [though I am not sure that some artists included, should be here]. The progressive side of metal is at times quite brilliant and as it the current favourite among the younger proggers in particular, it's inclusion can be commended for helping to assist new and younger fans in furthering their appreciation of progressive rock music as a total music genre.
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"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence"
- Robert Fripp
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Peter
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Joined: January 31 2004
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Posted: May 10 2007 at 22:56 |
valravennz wrote:
Prog Metal encompasses different styles of Metal music. My preference is towards the symphonic, gothic type metal where more often than not there is structure in the music that IMO is closer to "progressive" rock music than some of the other styles.which incorporate large amounts of blast beat, thrash or speed and lots of "growls" in the vocal's department. I am not a big fan of that type of metal. I know many of you would disagree with my sentiments.
However, there is a place for metal in PA [though I am not sure that some artists included, should be here]. The progressive side of metal is at times quite brilliant and as it the current favourite among the younger proggers in particular, it's inclusion can be commended for helping to assist new and younger fans in furthering their appreciation of progressive rock music as a total music genre. |
Ah, but is "prog' (or even "progressive rock") really a "genre," in the same unified, easily-distinguishable sense that country, jazz, folk or rap are? I think not.
I have seen at least one of the most vocal, dedicated supporters of PM here state, in black and white, that prog metal is NOT prog (emphasis mine) and not a sub-genre of rock (as prog supposedly is), but of metal. Thus, it seems we have at least two distinct genres here. (I think we have more, but I really don't like categories, and the hair-splitting, over-categorization of music/art. There is one major, inescapable, necessary variable in the interpretation of all art: the audience (in music, the listener), and as each listener is unique, so is each response to the music.
Perhaps in the early years of the movement, "prog" was a single, broadly quantifiable genre, but I think the word is little more than an anachronism, and a highly subjective value judgment, now. The diversity of artist and music types artificially gathered here under the umbrella term "prog" is huge. (Even without venturing into "proto prog,'"or the inane, amorphous "prog related," (if it's good, it must be prog related! ) we could easily name examples of supposed "prog" bands here whose overall sounds bear no resemblance to one another. Would that be true in a real, long-standing genre like jazz, or country?)
I think that more and more, prog basically equates to "good" here -- a matter of personal taste and interpretation.
Edited by Peter - May 10 2007 at 23:03
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Atomic_Rooster
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1210
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Posted: May 10 2007 at 23:01 |
Peter wrote:
valravennz wrote:
Prog Metal encompasses different styles of Metal music. My preference is towards the symphonic, gothic type metal where more often than not there is structure in the music that IMO is closer to "progressive" rock music than some of the other styles.which incorporate large amounts of blast beat, thrash or speed and lots of "growls" in the vocal's department. I am not a big fan of that type of metal. I know many of you would disagree with my sentiments.
However, there is a place for metal in PA [though I am not sure that some artists included, should be here]. The progressive side of metal is at times quite brilliant and as it the current favourite among the younger proggers in particular, it's inclusion can be commended for helping to assist new and younger fans in furthering their appreciation of progressive rock music as a total music genre. |
Ah, but is "prog' (or even "progressive rock") really a "genre," in the same unified, easily-distinguishable sense that country, jazz, folk or rap are? I think not.
I have seen at least one of the most vocal, dedicated supporters of PM here state, in black and white, that "prog metal is NOT prog" (emphasis mine) and not a sub-genre of rock, but of metal. Thus, it seems we have at least two distinct genres here. (I think we have more, but I really don't like categories, and the hair-splitting, over-categorization of music/art. There is one major, inescapable, necessary variable in the interpretation of all art: the audience (in music, the listener), and as each listener is unique, so is each response to the music.
Perhaps in the early years of the movement, "prog" was a single, broadly quantifiable genre, but I think the word is little more than an anachronism, and a highly subjective value judgment, now. The diversity of artist and music types artificially gathered here under the umbrella term "prog" is huge. (Even without venturing into "proto prog,'"or the inane "prog related," we could easily name examples of supposed "prog" bands here whose overall sounds bear no resemblance to one another. Would that be true in a real, long-standing genre like jazz, or country?)
I think that more and more, prog basically equates to "good" here -- a matter of personal taste and interpretation. |
you're right, prog probably isn't a genre, but one particular end of a wide spectrum of music (the other being regressive... which doesn't seem to have ever been very popular - think Elvis impersonators) But prog metal could introduce people to the more complex side of music, I suppose
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I am but a servant of the mighty Fripp, the sound of whose loins shall forever be upon the tongues of his followers.
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Peter
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Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
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Points: 9669
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Posted: May 10 2007 at 23:12 |
Atomic_Rooster wrote:
But prog metal could introduce people to the more complex side of music, I suppose
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I certainly don't disagree with that, AR. I think we have seen (and indeed, read) that, over and over again here.
Let's rename the site "(Relatively) Complex Music -- which isn't classical, jazz, country, punk, reggae, new wave, new age, disco, or rap -- Archives." Truth in advertising!
(Note that I didn't include metal, jazz, folk or classic rock -- we've swallowed up and renamed those, already!)
Edited by Peter - May 10 2007 at 23:13
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Proletariat
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 30 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1882
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Posted: May 10 2007 at 23:19 |
Peter wrote:
Atomic_Rooster wrote:
But prog metal could introduce people to the more complex side of music, I suppose
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I certainly don't disagree with that, AR. I think we have seen (and indeed, read) that, over and over again here.
Let's rename the site "(Relatively) Complex Music -- which isn't classical, jazz, country, punk, reggae, new wave, new age, disco, or rap -- Archives." Truth in advertising!
(Note that I didn't include metal, jazz, folk or classic rock -- we've swallowed up and renamed those, already!) |
wait you named jazz then said you didn't
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who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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headphone
Forum Newbie
Joined: April 25 2007
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Points: 28
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Posted: May 11 2007 at 06:03 |
Sasquamo wrote:
If you don't care much for progressive metal, is it because you simply do not like metal, or because you don't like the result of the combination of metal and prog? Or is it a different reason? |
Neither.
I Do like metal, or Heavy-rock (exluding death-metals and that sort of stuff).
I Do like prog.
But prog-metal, it's like mixing salty and sweet. It just don't work.
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Snow Dog
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Joined: March 23 2005
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Posted: May 11 2007 at 06:06 |
headphone wrote:
Sasquamo wrote:
If you don't care much for progressive metal, is it because you simply do not like metal, or because you don't like the result of the combination of metal and prog? Or is it a different reason? |
Neither.
I Do like metal, or Heavy-rock (exluding death-metals and that sort of stuff).
I Do like prog.
But prog-metal, it's like mixing salty and sweet. It just don't work. |
I think its popularity proves that wrong.
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headphone
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Joined: April 25 2007
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Posted: May 11 2007 at 07:03 |
Snow Dog wrote:
I think its popularity proves that wrong. |
Proves what? That MY OPINION IS WRONG????
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MikeEnRegalia
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Joined: April 22 2005
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Posted: May 11 2007 at 07:10 |
headphone wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
I think its popularity proves that wrong. |
Proves what? That MY OPINION IS WRONG???? |
It proves that your general statement "it doesn't work" may be wrong, since if it is popular it must work for many people. 
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headphone
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Posted: May 11 2007 at 07:16 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
It proves that your general statement "it doesn't work" may be wrong, since if it is popular it must work for many people.
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Really? I think it's even more popular not to like prog-metal. So your logic proves that prog-metal does't work, and all who listen to it are wrong
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: May 11 2007 at 07:18 |
"I think it's even more popular not to like prog-metal." Prove it! 
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Snow Dog
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Posted: May 11 2007 at 07:19 |
headphone wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
I think its popularity proves that wrong. |
Proves what? That MY OPINION IS WRONG???? |
Saying "It just doesn't work" is not an opinion...at least it doesn't read like one to me. If it is you are welcome to it.
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headphone
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Posted: May 11 2007 at 07:26 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Saying "It just doesn't work" is not an opinion...at least it doesn't read like one to me. If it is you are welcome to it. |
Wow!
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valravennz
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Joined: March 20 2005
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Posted: May 11 2007 at 07:26 |
Perhaps HP would like to qualify the statement "It just doesn't work" - maybe expand a little as to why metal and prog cannot exist together. 
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"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence"
- Robert Fripp
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headphone
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Joined: April 25 2007
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Points: 28
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Posted: May 11 2007 at 07:30 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
"I think it's even more popular not to like prog-metal."
Prove it!
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Yeah!
There has been a total sell of 559689489745874587 records in a world
Only 745687364 of them has been prog-metal records. Its less than 0,000000000000000001 percent of the whole
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Snow Dog
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Joined: March 23 2005
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Posted: May 11 2007 at 07:34 |
headphone wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Saying "It just doesn't work" is not an opinion...at least it doesn't read like one to me. If it is you are welcome to it. |
Wow! |
Wow?
Can you expand on that?
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valravennz
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Joined: March 20 2005
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Posted: May 11 2007 at 07:38 |
Peter wrote:
valravennz wrote:
Prog Metal encompasses different styles of Metal music. My preference is towards the symphonic, gothic type metal where more often than not there is structure in the music that IMO is closer to "progressive" rock music than some of the other styles.which incorporate large amounts of blast beat, thrash or speed and lots of "growls" in the vocal's department. I am not a big fan of that type of metal. I know many of you would disagree with my sentiments.
However, there is a place for metal in PA [though I am not sure that some artists included, should be here]. The progressive side of metal is at times quite brilliant and as it the current favourite among the younger proggers in particular, it's inclusion can be commended for helping to assist new and younger fans in furthering their appreciation of progressive rock music as a total music genre. |
Ah, but is "prog' (or even "progressive rock") really a "genre," in the same unified, easily-distinguishable sense that country, jazz, folk or rap are? I think not.
I have seen at least one of the most vocal, dedicated supporters of PM here state, in black and white, that prog metal is NOT prog (emphasis mine) and not a sub-genre of rock (as prog supposedly is), but of metal. Thus, it seems we have at least two distinct genres here. (I think we have more, but I really don't like categories, and the hair-splitting, over-categorization of music/art. There is one major, inescapable, necessary variable in the interpretation of all art: the audience (in music, the listener), and as each listener is unique, so is each response to the music.
Perhaps in the early years of the movement, "prog" was a single, broadly quantifiable genre, but I think the word is little more than an anachronism, and a highly subjective value judgment, now. The diversity of artist and music types artificially gathered here under the umbrella term "prog" is huge. (Even without venturing into "proto prog,'"or the inane, amorphous "prog related," (if it's good, it must be prog related! ) we could easily name examples of supposed "prog" bands here whose overall sounds bear no resemblance to one another. Would that be true in a real, long-standing genre like jazz, or country?)
I think that more and more, prog basically equates to "good" here -- a matter of personal taste and interpretation. |
Yes perhaps I was rather expansive in stating that progressive rock is a genre and I will concede that it does not have the same easily distinguished characteristics of eg: Rap, Country and Jazz. I still believe that Prog metal has certainly lead many of the younger PA members to exploring different areas within progressive rock music eg: Zeuhl, Krautrock, Folk, Canterbury and so on. I personally find that exploration of progressive rock music very exciting and it means that we older proggers can be assured that the progressive rock legacy will continue for a long time yet.
As you say Peter - prog besides equating to "good" is inevitably "a matter of personal taste and interpretation" and it is ok not to like or want to like Prog Metal or any other prog music form and hopefully this opinion can be respected by fellow PA members.
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"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence"
- Robert Fripp
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headphone
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Posted: May 11 2007 at 07:40 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Wow?
Can you expand on that? |
Allright...
WOW!
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Snow Dog
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Posted: May 11 2007 at 07:42 |
headcase wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Wow?
Can you expand on that? |
Allright...
WOW! |
Thought so.
And even mixing salty and sweet works, so you are wrong on more than one level.
Edited by Snow Dog - May 11 2007 at 07:57
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The "problem" with prog metal
