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Peter 
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 31 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 9669 |
 Posted: May 02 2007 at 08:32 |
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So tell me then: how am I supposed to get these albums from genres i know I dislike? Buy them? i don't think so! Steal them? Risk criminal prosecution for something I don't even want?
 And then, even if I do somehow get some of those strongly-disliked albums, I'll have to force myself to listen to them enough times to be able to review them. Why would I do that? What's in it for me?
I think some of you nay-sayers aren't really thinking this through!
 And re your sweeping "narrow-mindedness" generalization, surely we all have our individual limits on the types of music we enjoy. Is that really indicative of a serious character flaw, and someone worthy of your hatred?
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
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kazansky
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: December 24 2006 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 5085 |
Posted: May 02 2007 at 08:39 |
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i think people should write reviews on any album they feel they wanted to, regardless the genre...
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The devil we blame our atrocities on is really just each one of us.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21206 |
Posted: May 02 2007 at 08:41 |
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^ since you live in Canada you could simply use Napster. But I think the main point is: Who has time to listen to countless albums he doesn't like? I don't ... and that's also why I don't write many negative reviews. I simple don't listen to albums which I don't like often enough to be qualified to write a review.
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Rocktopus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2006 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 4202 |
Posted: May 02 2007 at 08:44 |
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Complete fanboy or complete disliker is just as worthless or valuable imo, and that was my point. I would have no interest in reading reviews of a young fanboy (not talking about The T) with little musiclistening experience outside of his preferred subgenre, no understanding of for example Progmetal's historical irrelevance (ok, or relevance), progressive-wise. I think we should treasure the few negative reviews, compared to the owerhhelming amount of five stars, we have here. (I'm guilty of giving probably more than 30% fivestars myself) Edited by Rocktopus - May 02 2007 at 08:59 |
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Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 31 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 9669 |
Posted: May 02 2007 at 08:52 |
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Is that free? (seriously)
(It is against my moral principles to acquire art without (someone) paying the artist.)
But as you say, Mike, no matter the financial cost, why would we want to force ourselves to repeatedly listen to music we dislike?
We are not paid reviewers!Plus, the resulting review will almost certainly be unfair, uninformed, and of little use to the genre's actual fans.
Now, I gotta go eat a sickenly-sweet breakfast cereal, ruin my coffee with lots of sugar, and listen to some Village People, Shania and 50 Cent, to sponge away my despicable "narrow mindedness." I hope you all appreciate my noble sacrifice at the altar of critical impartiality!
 Riiiiiiiiiight.....  Edited by Peter - May 02 2007 at 09:08 |
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 31 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 9669 |
Posted: May 02 2007 at 09:00 |
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Yes, negative reviews themselves are fine (I have several here) but that is not the issue. The issue is the validity/desirability of reviewing music from entire genres you dislike.
All of my metal (or rap, or disco) reviews would be negative. What would be the point in reading them? Shouldn't I just outline my overall tastes once, in my reviewer's profile?
Plus, one would come in for a LOT of nasty abuse here (and rightly so, perhaps) if one continued to savage an entire genre. Who needs all that negativity in their lives?
Should non prog fans review here? What would be the point, pray tell? Edited by Peter - May 02 2007 at 09:03 |
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21206 |
Posted: May 02 2007 at 09:13 |
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They charge a fixed monthly fee (10 EUR in Germany, I don't know about Canada but you can find out at www.napster.cn). Then when you listen to music through Napster they record playback statistics, and in a nutshell your subscription fee is forwarded to the artists/companies you listened to.  |
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Rocktopus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2006 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 4202 |
Posted: May 02 2007 at 09:21 |
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I get that. IMO they help even out the inexperienced fanboy reviewers, giving fivestars mostly based on lack of knowledge. I think of those just as pointless or valuable, and if you (not you) start removing that kind of negative reviews, you'd have to go through the all the fivestars as well, and remove the blindly worshipping ones. That sounds almost impossible. BTW: I think my strong dislikes (ca. 90% of what I've heard) of the genres Neoprog and Progmetal is valid and based on knowing progs history wery well. If I bothered to take the time, I'd make a one star review of DT or Symphony X based on that. If I think that has a value, why shouldn't I? Edited by Rocktopus - May 02 2007 at 09:31 |
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Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20251 |
Posted: May 02 2007 at 09:30 |
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indeed, I feel the same about my reviewing of Neo. Sometimes I wish I would actually fake reviews to lower the ratings of albums I deem not worthy of the constant fanboy praises. But then, again, I turn over and think, why bother?
BTW, I don't buy or rent records to review something I know I don't like ahead of time, but to discover new music. I have the immense facility to rent albums for a week and study them for the moderate price of 1.5€/album . This may seem expensive to Mike, but I get the booklet along, something lacking in MP3 downloading.
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21206 |
Posted: May 02 2007 at 09:31 |
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Because you would risk making a fool of yourself. Suppose you gave one star to Symphony X - Twilight in Olympus or Dream Theater - Awake, would that help prog metal fans decide which album to get next? If you give 1 star to the best albums of the genre, then what about the average and sub par prog metal albums ... would these be 0 or -1 stars then? And finally: I don't think that any prog metal fan would stop listening to prog metal just because people like you bash the genre ... if anything it would strengthen their resolve and confidence in their own taste. |
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Rocktopus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2006 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 4202 |
Posted: May 02 2007 at 09:37 |
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I'd take that risk.
If I hear a one star, and then I hear something even worse, that would be a one star too of course. If I ate the worst meal I ever had, and then tried something that tasted even worse after that, the first meal is still just as bad. Fortunatly for me, you and everyone, I'm not going to waste my time doing any of this. |
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Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: July 27 2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 7659 |
Posted: May 02 2007 at 09:38 |
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In my opinion this review is the perfect example of a review that should have been deleted immediately after publishing, what a ridiculous crap, it doesn't inform the visiting progheads in a right way. If Prog Archives allows this kind of reviews, we don't take our visiting progheads serious because this kind of reviews lacks respect and skills and it''s only based upon provoking in a very childish way, very poor
 !
NEXUS — Perpetuum KarmaReview by Prophet
Posted Monday, April 30, 2007, 05:43 EST Edited by erik neuteboom - May 02 2007 at 09:39 |
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Rocktopus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2006 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 4202 |
Posted: May 02 2007 at 09:50 |
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Just a random example. Is this any better?
DREAM THEATER — Train Of ThoughtReview by cdfe.vf
This is a great album!
You have to listen many times to being involved into it!
Supreme technical music; deep lyrics; shred solos; heavy riffs; great
vocals; beautiful progressions; beautiful concept: DT are the best
group on the planet earth.
This album is a step of their continuos progression.
There is no doubt: Train of Thought is exellent!!!
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Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20251 |
Posted: May 02 2007 at 10:05 |
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Erik, Krister
Those two reviews are very helpful. I know I must avoid both albums. Because the Nexus albums seems bad and the DT seems bad too
 But in terms of credibility I prefer the Prophet character.
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 7659 |
Posted: May 02 2007 at 10:14 |
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OK Sean, you can expect some reviews about Iron Maiden, Dream Theater and The Beatles in the vein of Prophet, you won't be bored for a single second while reading those reviews ... and it is a cheap way to reach my review #1000
!
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21206 |
Posted: May 02 2007 at 10:16 |
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^^ Those two reviews say a lot about the reviewer, but very little about the album. Why do you use them as an excuse to "condemn" the album?
Edited by MikeEnRegalia - May 02 2007 at 10:48 |
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 7659 |
Posted: May 02 2007 at 10:22 |
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Of course I am not Mike, I was only joking because if I start to review that way I show no respect and then I contradict myself to an earlier post in this thread
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20251 |
Posted: May 02 2007 at 10:23 |
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you'd better hurry then
 , 'cause I'm on a rating spree , and closing up on your unfair advantage  ( I have to pay for the albums I review, you get a deal of them free through that mag of yours)BTW, although not well written (probably by a non-native English speaker) the Nexus review, i find gives me a good idea what the album sounds like, and apparently he heard other albums of theirs.
I think you are more upset because he dislike what you try to promote. Edited by Sean Trane - May 02 2007 at 10:26 |
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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Atomic_Rooster
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 26 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1210 |
Posted: May 02 2007 at 10:26 |
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I like reviewing albums that I havn't even heard because I feel moved by the spirit of the Fripp
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I am but a servant of the mighty Fripp, the sound of whose loins shall forever be upon the tongues of his followers.
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 7659 |
Posted: May 02 2007 at 10:40 |
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Sean, the only reason why I am a bit upset is about that Nexus review by Prophet is that five inspired and enthousiastic Argentine progheads made a wonderufl album that is nailed in a ridiculous way, no band deserves to be treated that way and we should be alert that this too verbally agressive and sarcastic language will not become common, that's my main concern. By the way, the Nexus promoting goes on in my own thread Sean
Here's another example how somebody indulged himself in nailing music in an extremely sarcastic and verbally agressive way, in my opinion this should also have been deleted!
RUSH — 2112 Review by Teaflax (John Thelin)
Edited by erik neuteboom - May 02 2007 at 10:46 |
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Should reviews be written only by genres'
Topic Options
The Whistler wrote:
for those not convinced >> read my post on last page at the bottom I think of that as just as pointless or valuable, and I think if you (not you) start removing that kind of negative reviews, you'd have to go through the all the fivestars as well, and remove the blindlyt worshipping ones as well. That sounds almost impossible. 
Mirar Hacia El Centro" starts with keyboards and heavy guitar. At time 7:00 the song calms down and (male)vocals join in. Note, Mariela Gonzalez is gone and that's sad, because the male voice cannot compete to her, not even close. At 11:30 the song changes again to keyboard oriented instrumental. For an over 17 minutes song it cannot keep up the interest - it doesn't have enough to offer. The song is actually 17 minutes of uninspired organ soloing! 2½ stars.