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Garion81 
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2004 Location: So Cal, USA Status: Offline Points: 4338 |
 Topic: FromuzPosted: April 18 2007 at 14:38 |
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I'm not sure how to classify this. The Fromuz had an independent DVD for a short time in 2005 called "Playing the Imitation" for the purpose for getting a record contract. This DVD was never available for public consumption. Now that they have signed with 10T records and they took the exact DVD and released it with a CD audio format and call it Audio Diplomacy. I noticed another reviewer added the first DVD and then rated it. I checked the bands web site both the official and the myspace website and the only thing they are pointing to is the the New 10T release and make no mention of the other. I am wondering if this DVD should be listed as it was never in print. It is also the reason I did not add the band to PA until they did get a contract. The DVD on PTI and AD are EXACTLY the same.
If someone is selling this DVD they are doing so as a bootleg and the band would receive no credit for it.
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Joolz
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 24 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1377 |
Posted: April 18 2007 at 20:59 |
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Other sites have this DVD
 .... have PM'd Prog-jester for his comments
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2004 Location: So Cal, USA Status: Offline Points: 4338 |
Posted: April 18 2007 at 23:08 |
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 Thanks Joolz.
I also checked with the bands American Liaison Ken Westphal and he confirmed what I said that the original is not for sale. He helped them get the 10T contract. If you need to I can have him contact PA directly?
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Prog-jester
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: June 05 2005 Location: Love Beach Status: Online Points: 5871 |
Posted: April 19 2007 at 02:41 |
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I must confess I recieved it as a DVD-R copy disk from a friend (I'll ask where did he get it). Besides, "Audio Diplomacy" is a bit shorter, isn't it?
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Joolz
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 24 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1377 |
Posted: April 19 2007 at 05:14 |
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Thanks guys ...
No need ... I trust your word 
Yes, please ask .... it is clear from Garion81 that this was not commercially released, but it is possible some of those promo copies are in legitimate circulation? I believe we already have promo discs on PA for other bands??? Or should it be removed? [In which case your review is at risk ... ] |
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2004 Location: So Cal, USA Status: Offline Points: 4338 |
Posted: April 19 2007 at 12:51 |
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No Audio Diplomacy is the exact same thing.
 The only difference is that with AD you get both a DVD and CD audio of the Concert. The original was made as a promo to get them a record contract so yes there are probably some copies floating around out there but if anyone is selling them they are doing so with out permission and it would have to be looked on as a bootleg. The band would have it on it's web site if in fact they were authorizing sales for it and they don't.
Thanks for listening.
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Rivertree
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Band Submissions Joined: March 22 2006 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 17627 |
Posted: April 20 2007 at 10:00 |
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If this is the truth Playing The Imitation must be removed. I added it because some other sites listed this DVD including reviews. Maybe the tracklisting from Audio Diplomacy is wrong? Playing the imitation contains 2 more songs. Please have a look here http://www.babyblaue-seiten.de/index.php?content=band&bandId=2423 This site is listing both, but with Audio Diplomacy tracks differ between CD and DVD same here in french (who is familiar?) http://www.musicinbelgium.net/pl/modules.php?name=Reviews&rop=showcontent&id=1835 CD length 74:39 (8 tracks) DVD length 89:10 (10 tracks) Edited by Rivertree - April 20 2007 at 11:12 |
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2004 Location: So Cal, USA Status: Offline Points: 4338 |
Posted: April 20 2007 at 12:09 |
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I had no idea about the other tracks since I don't have a copy. Maybe they decided they didn't want them on an official release? I forwarded this to Ken Westphal the bands American liaison. I have asked Ken to come here and clarify this and also to notify him about the other sites. Thanks for the info!
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artguyken
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: November 05 2006 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 187 |
Posted: April 20 2007 at 12:25 |
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===================== OK... just to set the record straight. "Audio Diplomacy" includes "Playing the Imitation." The DVD contained in "Audio Diplomacy" IS Playing the Imitation. "Playing the Imitation" was the title of the concert and the promotional DVD that the band produced. The DVD was sent for review to various reviewers before the band had a contract, including to me at Progressor.net. That is how I became involved with the band. If you buy "Audio Diplomacy" you will own the CD & the DVD. The DVD is not changed in any way from when it was a stand alone. The reason the track listing is different on AD is that there is too much music to have been used on the CD. So, the CD has two fewer tracks than the DVD. If you read the tray card for Audio Diplomacy, it says "The concert DVD includes 2 bonus tracks, 'Remark #12' & 'Dual Ad Libitum', all filmed live, performed in Tashkent." INSIDE the booklet it says: "The DVD was filmed 7 April 2005 in Tashkent, UZ originally entitled 'Playing the Imitation' (of Life)" The DVD was so good as it was originally produced that we (the band, 10T Records & I ) decided to leave it as it is. However, neither the label or I ever liked the title, "Playing the Imitation" as it made it sound as though the band's music was somehow an imitation of other music. The intent of the title was the idea that life imitates art and vice versa. So, the DVD contained in "Audio Diplomacy" IS "Playing the Imitation". That title will appear on your screen. Perhaps we should have had stickers made for the album that say "Includes 'Playing the Imitation'" Thanks for all your interest in Fromuz. |
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2004 Location: So Cal, USA Status: Offline Points: 4338 |
Posted: April 20 2007 at 12:37 |
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^ So in essence if people are selling this under the name Playing the Imitation then it is in fact a bootleg?
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artguyken
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 05 2006 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 187 |
Posted: April 20 2007 at 13:32 |
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Yes. If anyone knows of it being sold as "Playing the Imitation" please forward the information to me so that we can ask them to cease and desist. [email protected]. Thanks, Ken Westphal, aka: Artguyken Promotions, Fromuz |
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artguyken
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 05 2006 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 187 |
Posted: April 20 2007 at 13:47 |
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BTW-- the guy at Prognosis tells it straight in his review: "Published on: 24 Feb 2007
This dvd came as part of a 2 disc set from the bands' recent release of their studio album called Audio Diplomacy also reviewed here at Proggnosis. I wish all bands these days could do this, release a solid cd's worth of music, and provide a live dvd of them in a performance setting to get a more intimate view of their true chemistry as musicians." http://www.proggnosis.com/MUSIC_DBCDInfo.asp?txtCDID=17373 |
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2004 Location: So Cal, USA Status: Offline Points: 4338 |
Posted: April 20 2007 at 15:43 |
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OK I have a solution. Can we have this placed in release information for Playing the Imitation? Recorded in 2005 this DVD was a Promo copy only. Officially released in the Audio Diplomacy Package with an Audio CD in 2007 on 10T records. This is not commercially released as Playing the Imitation the DVD.
Then Place this in the Release info for Audio Diplomacy
The DVD contained here was originally recorded as a promo copy under the title of Playing the Imitation released in 2005.
Then add this under Track listing below the CD track listing
DVD tracks:
1. Intro (6:11) I think that should take care of it.
Edited by Garion81 - April 20 2007 at 15:48 |
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
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Rivertree
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Band Submissions Joined: March 22 2006 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 17627 |
Posted: April 20 2007 at 18:36 |
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Hmmm ... Following the arguments of Ken Westphal we better have to remove
Playing the Imitation and to assign the review of Prog-jester to Audio Diplomacy. What he explained: 1. The DVD contained in "Audio Diplomacy" IS Playing the Imitation 2. The DVD was sent for review to various reviewers before the band had a contract 3. However, neither the label or I ever liked the title "Playing the Imitation" The following should be used as posted here
Edited by Rivertree - April 20 2007 at 18:48 |
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artguyken
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 05 2006 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 187 |
Posted: April 20 2007 at 19:49 |
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I, speaking for Fromuz, do not have a problem with "Playing the Imitation" being reviewed as such, however, it should be simply stipulated that "Playing the Imitation" is not available as a stand alone product and is only available as part of "Audio Diplomacy". The DVD within "Audio Diplomacy" IS "Playing the Imitation" in its entirety. My not liking the title doesn't change the fact that it still bears that name, though the overall package of CD & DVD is named as a unit. Many prog sites and magazines reviewed the DVD before it was released as the 2 disk set with its original title. I'm sorry that this has caused confusion, but I hope that you understand our thinking in making the title change for the official CD & DVD release. |
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Rivertree
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Band Submissions Joined: March 22 2006 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 17627 |
Posted: April 21 2007 at 04:00 |
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No problem, Ken. It is our job to care about things like this  Thanks for the info. So finally let us realize Brian's last suggestion  |
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Joolz
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 24 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1377 |
Posted: April 21 2007 at 08:23 |
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Thanks guys for the input .... I have changed both entries according to Brian's post [I've just changed the order of words slightly, hope you don't mind
] .... Many thanks |
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2004 Location: So Cal, USA Status: Offline Points: 4338 |
Posted: April 21 2007 at 13:30 |
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Thank you both. This was a good discussion and brings precedence to any thing like this happening in the future. Great Job!!
Edited by Garion81 - April 21 2007 at 13:31 |
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
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Rivertree
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Band Submissions Joined: March 22 2006 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 17627 |
Posted: April 21 2007 at 14:32 |
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BTW - another case which is not clear is the bandname Sometimes it is Fromuz but in other cases also The Fromuz myspace site for example uses both versions. Probably Ken is able to help us once more? Edited by Rivertree - April 21 2007 at 14:36 |
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artguyken
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 05 2006 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 187 |
Posted: April 21 2007 at 15:48 |
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I believe I can help. Originally, the band was calling themselves The Fromuz, an English name invented by Russian speakers. In Russian, definite articles are not used, like "a" and "the". Since Fromuz is an invented name, but a name nonetheless, having a definite article seemed unnecessary. To the English speaker, "The" was extraneous. It would be like "The Genesis" or "The Proto-Kaw", so we decided to drop "The" and the band is known now simply as "Fromuz". |
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Fromuz
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Garion81 wrote: