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Flyingsod
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 19 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 564
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Posted: April 17 2007 at 23:21 |
Id post pics of mine , Im not embaressed to have regular audio equipment. I can't though because my ISP tech doesn't understand the complications of personal web storage. Since its pics prefrerred and not pic mandatory... AMp: technics SA GX700 Amp: Fisher RS88 1A turntable: technics SL BD22 turntable: magnovox MX Quad adapter: Olsen quad adapter Tape deck: JVC TD W505 cd changer: RCA CD 9500 Computer interface: Echo Darla-24 Speakers: realistic nova-15 Speakers: sony SS MB35OH Speakers: American Acoustic Labs Apollo 3600 Speakers: Fisher 200 watters Ive stopped using the Sony and Fisher speakers. They are way to bassy.I actually still love those realistic speakers but one of them has blown the factory tweeter and I relplaced it with a stand alone horn type tweeter that sounds great but the other speaker is the original tweeter and that screws up stereo imaging. Neither turntable is up to snuff. the technics has developed a slow spot in the rotation ( I can't hear it but I know its there because of the strobe) the Magnovox has awesome crispy bass compared to the technics but the platter adaptor for lp's doesnt sit right in the platter and makes the records off center. The amps... sigh. my technics has become irratable and sometimes half the buttons cease to work. unfortunatly the half that are flakey include the input selectors. Amplification and equalization work great. I decided to leave it on phono for fear that it might get stuck permanatly on <gasp> tuner... I bought the fisher amp at good will so I could still listen to cd's and tapes. Tape player is great no complaints. CD changer is also just fine although Ive only loaded in about 6 or 7 cd's. In my lifestyle cd's are for the highway. My echo darla would vomit if it heard your nasty creative crap soundcard ( hey, I have to be proud of SOMETHING here....) _popupControl();
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
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Points: 6308
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Posted: April 18 2007 at 03:52 |
Here's what you need first:
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
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Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
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Points: 6308
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Posted: April 18 2007 at 03:52 |
arcer wrote:
Amps no good? Why? Actually, I am genuinely interested in your thoughts on these
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Not very musical.
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 6308
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Posted: April 18 2007 at 09:10 |
arcer wrote:
Amps no good? Why? Actually, I am genuinely interested in your thoughts on these
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That's not the worst crap however. You have quite good speaker's cables also.
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
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Joined: March 26 2004
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Points: 6308
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Posted: April 18 2007 at 09:12 |
Black Velvet wrote:
Hoping to upgrade to the Naim CD5, unfortunately don't have a job at the moment so it might be sometime. I prefer it over the Rega 'planet' and Creek 'CD53' I tested.
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The Naim is more dynamic and punchy i guess?
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oliverstoned
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Joined: March 26 2004
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Points: 6308
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Posted: April 18 2007 at 10:46 |
arcer wrote:
The whole system (amp, cd, speakers, turntable, phono stage, cabling) will clock in at around £7,000 to £8000 (around euro11000-12,000). Beyond that I honestly believe that you've hit the buffers of the law of diminishing returns. The improvements (if they exist at all) are so miniscule and so inconsequential to the overall experience that the cost is unjustifiable. To me it is simply an extreme case of "upgrade-itis" thereafter. |
I've got a 10 000/12 000 € system which work great, but exploded by a good 20 000€ one, itself exploded by a good 30 0000€ one, there's no limit, you can go until several billions of Euros!
Edited by oliverstoned - April 18 2007 at 10:55
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
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Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
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Points: 32995
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Posted: April 18 2007 at 10:59 |
Flyingsod wrote:
The amps... sigh. my technics has become irratable and sometimes half the buttons cease to work. unfortunatly the half that are flakey include the input selectors. Amplification and equalization work great. I decided to leave it on phono for fear that it might get stuck permanatly on <gasp> tuner... I bought the fisher amp at good will so I could still listen to cd's and tapes.
_popupControl(); |
Try investing in some switch cleaner and spray those knobs. You may be suprised by the rresults.
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arcer
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 01 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1239
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Posted: April 18 2007 at 13:18 |
oliverstoned wrote:
arcer wrote:
Amps no good? Why? Actually, I am genuinely interested in your thoughts on these
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Not very musical. |
I don't understand - I find them very musical. Have you heard these amplifiers? I think not. Here's an extract from a review. As you'll note the emphasis is far away from "thin" and "not musical". I think you must be thinking of some other amplifiers. As I’ve written about in other reviews, my reference
amplifiers use vacuum tubes. Further,
most of my amps are low-powered, single-ended, triode output designs ranging
from about 3.5 wpc to 13 wpc. My
electric shaver has more power than that. Low
powered triodes are an acquired
taste. With appropriate speakers,
however, I am regularly treated to full-range reproduction and musical beauty
that is absolutely magical.
So, being a patron of the low-powered, tube audio arts, what
can I possibly be doing reviewing Myryad’s solid state MA240, a 120 wpc
powerhouse? Trust me, I approach
every equipment review with an open mind and try to avoid preconceived notions
about stereotypical solid state sound, whatever that may be.
The Myryad MA240 lived up to its end of the bargain by being neutral
and natural . . . and oh, the dynamics!
There was an
effortlessness to the dynamic swings that caught me by surprise, in a good
way. The dynamic impact was
closer to what I experienced while listening to live music. No, my system doesn’t sound “live”, but hearing the
swings from soft to loud, especially with orchestral music, helped get me
closer at times.
The MA240 exhibited a smoothness and openness in the top end
that I associate only with very good equipment, regardless of whether its
output is tube or solid state. The
upper frequencies were not harsh or brittle.
“Touch of Trash” from Patricia Barber’s Modern Cool album (Premonition 741) showed that the MA240 could
bring the cymbal crashes and percussive strikes to life, but they never got on
my nerves or became splashy. The
highest-highs, which may be sounds such as a gentle brush stroke on a smaller
cymbal, or a tap on a triangle, were not quite as extended or present as I
prefer, but there isn’t much musical action in that range on the majority of
commercial recordings. These
upper-register sounds also had somewhat less natural reverberant decay than I
hear through my triode tube amps.
As I listened through the MA240, I was struck how music seemed
to move along with urgency, presented with a buoyant, vivid feel to it.
This is a quick amplifier. Certainly,
the excellent power supply comes into play here.
The amp does a great job letting go of one note and moving on to the
next. Listening to Dean Peer’s Ucross
album (Restless 9101), which is a torture test for bass definition, I noticed
that the low
register was well-defined, even in the lowest of low regions.
I detected some slight blurring of the pitches from note to note when
listening at meager volume settings. As
the volume was increased, things improved.
This was perhaps an issue of the speaker/amplifer interface not being
ideal at very low volumes.
If my aural memory serves me correctly, the Myryad MA240 is
sonically similar to the Manley Labs Stingray integrated amp that I reviewed
in the fall of 1999. Each of
these amps exhibits realistic clarity through the midrange and the ability to
lay out a soundstage that’s on par with any amp I’ve had in my system.
Tonally, the MA240’s balance is more light than dark.
It’s airy and well lit from about 3 kHz on up.
The MA240 displays no harshness or forwardness in the upper mids
through the treble, but that portion of the sonic spectrum is what I noticed
first in many listening sessions. It
also happens to be where the human ear is very sensitive.
In this respect, I slightly prefer the tonal balance of my Wright WPA
3.5 amps, for example, which are wonderfully even from top to bottom.
Other amps also have a better sense of perceived depth and organic
wholeness to vocalists and solo instruments, whereas the MA240 gives the
impression of a flatter front-to-back sonic plane. Minor quibbles, for sure, but worth mentioning, and of
course, these are the opinions of a tubeophile.
In listening to the MP100, I said it earlier, and I’ll
repeat it now, it proved a perfect match to the MA240.
I found its tonal balance to be quite even, but if I had to place it on
the spectrum it would be more dark than light, matching wonderfully with the
MA240 in that regard.
Please don’t misinterpret my description of the MP100 and
assume that it’s colored, because it really isn’t. Tonally, the MP100 is robust and lively in the best sense
of the term, with good extension at the extremes, but during listening tests,
my ear was directed toward the lower-mids and mid-bass as the areas that
impressed the most, rather than the upper-mids and treble.
Remember, I’m comparing the MP100 mostly to the Monolithic
Sound PA-1, which is a passive preamp design. The
PA-1, and virtually any passive preamp, will do less to alter a signal than
most active designs. Once your
ear is accustomed to the lack of a sonic signature from a passive preamp, it
becomes much easier to hear any character imposed by an active preamp.
The trick is to find components that work well together, and that’s
why I constantly refer back to the admirable teamwork of the MA240 and MP100.
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arcer
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 01 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1239
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Posted: April 18 2007 at 13:28 |
oliverstoned wrote:
arcer wrote:
The whole system (amp, cd, speakers, turntable, phono stage, cabling) will clock in at around £7,000 to £8000 (around euro11000-12,000). Beyond that I honestly believe that you've hit the buffers of the law of diminishing returns. The improvements (if they exist at all) are so miniscule and so inconsequential to the overall experience that the cost is unjustifiable. To me it is simply an extreme case of "upgrade-itis" thereafter. |
I've got a 10 000/12 000 € system which work great, but exploded by a good 20 000€ one, itself exploded by a good 30 0000€ one, there's no limit, you can go until several billions of Euros!
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I have to say I think it's nonsense. I have listened to a number of very high end - up to 100,000 euros - and while, yes, there is an improvement over a 10,000 euro system I have to say that there is not 90,000 euro of value in the improvement. The benefits are miniscule, the impact on bank balance enormous. It simply isn't worth it and anyone who feels they can justify spending 60,000 on a pair of speakers is either very, very, very rich or very, very stupid or quite possibly both. Just think about this: how many hours per week does the average person (and by average I mean a person such as those who reside here at PA) have available to them to actually sit down and give music their full concentration. Is it 100,000 euros worth of hours? I hardly think so. I stand by my theory: 10-12000 euros is the maximum any sane person needs to spend to achieve sublime sound in a home environment.
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arcer
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 01 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1239
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Posted: April 18 2007 at 13:29 |
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Posted: April 18 2007 at 13:37 |
What I think needs to be said at this stage is that system matching is ALL. A component that sounds harsh, strident, or perhaps reticent in one system will sound utterly different in another. Once biting and harsh can become mellowed and smooth.
One cannot, under any circumstances, state that any particular piece of kit (and I'm not talking bargain stuff by the way) has a particular trait and that's how it will sound whatever the other components in the system. It is unlikely that any reviewer, other than those who review for a living (ie for magazine or website) has heard a particular component in many, disparate systems and has heard the box in all it's guises.
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NilsTentacles
Forum Groupie
Joined: April 02 2007
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 42
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Posted: April 18 2007 at 16:12 |
arcer, you should be! in oliverstone standards you probably has the best system, after him of course :-D
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arcer
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 01 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1239
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Posted: April 18 2007 at 17:57 |
NilsTentacles wrote:
arcer, you should be! in oliverstone standards you probably has the best system, after him of course :-D |
I don't think I do have a great system - by any stretch of the imagination. It's not bad but needs lifting in certain areas. I do think Oliver is slighlty in thrall to the "mysteries" of the high end - it's easy to get sucked in by manufacturers' empty claims and magazine hype - it's their business to make people believe that paying 1000 euros for a half-metre length of wire is going to change their world. Some of the mags blindly reinforce the notion and the whole thing spirals out of all control. The manufacturing processes could never justify some of the price tags. I do think the pursuit of esoteric solutions is a form of "audio-intellectual" snobbery. Unless you embrace the pseudo-science you are not a true audiophile. In fact, I even hate the term audiophile - it's so... perverse. Makes the pursuit of decent home entertainment sound bizarrely fetishistic. And remember, we're talking about entertainment here - it isn't a game of mine's bigger than yours or adopting some kind of high (end) ground, it's about putting on a piece of vinyl or slotting in a CD and being entertained by the music - not the machinery. I know where the weaknesses lie in my set-up, speakers and possibly a misguided CD source choice but I also know that I don't need to spend 800 euros on a wire to bring current from the wall to my amplifier - that's just smoke and mirrors. I'd rather sell my CD player, get five hundred euros for it, add that to the 800 euros you'd pay for the wire and upgrade my CD player - the benefit from that will outweigh any 'conditioning' a power cable could bring. I'll even go so far as to commit the ultimate high-end heresy. The idea of placing bricks on my speakers, squash balls under my components, is, to me, ridiculous. Hi-fi should follow form as well as function. I refuse to pay 5000 euros for something that has to be improved by placing building suplies on it. It should look beautiful and perform beautifully too. That's why in looking for speakers I will only go for something that looks pretty in my living room. I have nice, carefully chosen furniture, why shoudl the hi-fi ruin that. I don't want to see it, be assaulted visually by it or create towers of boxes and labyrinths of cable. It's hideous. I can hear the spluttering of the high-end merchants from here....
Edited by arcer - April 18 2007 at 18:03
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Apsalar
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 06 2006
Location: gansu
Status: Offline
Points: 2888
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Posted: April 18 2007 at 18:34 |
oliverstoned wrote:
Black Velvet wrote:
Hoping to upgrade to the Naim CD5, unfortunately don't have a job at the moment so it might be sometime. I prefer it over the Rega 'planet' and Creek 'CD53' I tested.
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The Naim is more dynamic and punchy i guess?
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Yes, the main reason was the dynamic's. I took in a varity of CD's within the realms of improv and minimalism; as I find this branch of music to 'challenge' the faults in the Cambridge the most. The Creek has a very clear percise sound, but really seemed a little too straight forward for my tastes. It was closer between the rega, but I still felt the Naim was the more musicial of the two; and worth the price difference.
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
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Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
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Points: 6308
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Posted: April 19 2007 at 04:21 |
arcer wrote:
oliverstoned wrote:
arcer wrote:
The whole system (amp, cd, speakers, turntable, phono stage, cabling) will clock in at around £7,000 to £8000 (around euro11000-12,000). Beyond that I honestly believe that you've hit the buffers of the law of diminishing returns. The improvements (if they exist at all) are so miniscule and so inconsequential to the overall experience that the cost is unjustifiable. To me it is simply an extreme case of "upgrade-itis" thereafter. |
I've got a 10 000/12 000 € system which work great, but exploded by a good 20 000€ one, itself exploded by a good 30 0000€ one, there's no limit, you can go until several billions of Euros!
| I have to say I think it's nonsense. I have listened to a number of very high end - up to 100,000 euros - and while, yes, there is an improvement over a 10,000 euro system I have to say that there is not 90,000 euro of value in the improvement. The benefits are miniscule, the impact on bank balance enormous. It simply isn't worth it and anyone who feels they can justify spending 60,000 on a pair of speakers is either very, very, very rich or very, very stupid or quite possibly both. Just think about this: how many hours per week does the average person (and by average I mean a person such as those who reside here at PA) have available to them to actually sit down and give music their full concentration. Is it 100,000 euros worth of hours? I hardly think so. I stand by my theory: 10-12000 euros is the maximum any sane person needs to spend to achieve sublime sound in a home environment. |
Obviously you haven't heard a real working system, whatever the price.
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oliverstoned
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Joined: March 26 2004
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Posted: April 19 2007 at 04:24 |
Black Velvet wrote:
oliverstoned wrote:
Black Velvet wrote:
Hoping to upgrade to the Naim CD5, unfortunately don't have a job at the moment so it might be sometime. I prefer it over the Rega 'planet' and Creek 'CD53' I tested.
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The Naim is more dynamic and punchy i guess?
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Yes, the main reason was the dynamic's. I took in a varity of CD's within the realms of improv and minimalism; as I find this branch of music to 'challenge' the faults in the Cambridge the most. The Creek has a very clear percise sound, but really seemed a little too straight forward for my tastes. It was closer between the rega, but I still felt the Naim was the more musicial of the two; and worth the price difference.
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You probably heard that the Naim has a lot of mateer too.
The Rega is very natural, but too limited at both spectrum's extremities.
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
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Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
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Posted: April 19 2007 at 04:24 |
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arcer
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 01 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1239
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Posted: April 19 2007 at 16:20 |
oliverstoned wrote:
arcer wrote:
oliverstoned wrote:
arcer wrote:
Amps no good? Why? Actually, I am genuinely interested in your thoughts on these
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That's not the worst crap however. You have quite good speaker's cables also. | I'm honoured! |
You should try another CD. |
It is on my list to audition some other CD players, Primare CD31, Naim CD5X etc. Money is an object unfortunately and one does the best one can. For the time being the Roksan will have to do.
And you know what? Listening to the remized/remasterd SACD/CD Wind and Wuthering the other night (an impulse raid on the record store), I was blown away by how much detail the Roksan digs out and how good the soundstaging is, placing instruments in all the right places. It may be a little excitable but it's not as bad you believe.
As for your comment about never having heard a working system - as I explained in other posts, I've heard systems ranging from 1,000 to 100,000 (some assembled by manufacturers and by hi-fi stores) and I've NEVER heard ANYTHING to convince me that there is a justifiable reason to spend more than 10,000/12,000 on a home entertainment system.
I'm not denying that some elements sound better but as I've said before the improvements are so miniscule that they cannot justify the price paid. It is, IMO, obsessional lunacy.
Edited by arcer - April 19 2007 at 16:21
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
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Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
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Posted: April 20 2007 at 06:01 |
The Naim will work way better than the Primare IMO.
If you'd heard a real working system, you'd be as enthusiastic as me. There are things which work in Hifi, and when all the system's elements are excellent and well optimized (cables, power, vibes), the result is more than excellent!
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arcer
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 01 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1239
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Posted: April 20 2007 at 08:36 |
Thanks Oliver, the players are on my audition list for when the finances, stars (and my wife's mood) are right. On the 'real' 'working' system - I have heard them and I think we'll just have to agree to differ on this one!! For me the high high end will always be a triumph of hype, pseudo-science and bullsh*t over real performance. Most of time I'm just as happy listening to my little Tivoli radio! But each to his own.
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