what is prog?

^ I think that it takes more than just being experimental ... you also need outstanding musicianship or high artistic standards. For example, I don't think that the "Einstürzende Neubauten" are prog ... they're extremely experimental, but not very good musicians.

^ not necessarily ... it is just more difficult to determine the "artistic level" of minimalistic music than with flashy, "in your face" technical music.

Blacksword wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: ^ I think that it takes more than just being experimental ... you also need outstanding musicianship or high artistic standards. For example, I don't think that the "Einstürzende Neubauten" are prog ... they're extremely experimental, but not very good musicians. I dont think good musicianship is a prerequisite. I think progressiveness in music is in the ideas. It just so happens that most known prog bands can play to a very high standard too. Luckily many execelltn musos were drawn to prog. Hawkwind are a good example of a progressive band who musicianship has at best always been average and at worst been appalling; certainly when compared alongside other prog bands. Also, a lot of Brian Eno's music was very 'progressive' but there was little evidence of virtuosity in his playing (I dont know if he is virtuoso standard or not)

Blacksword wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: ^ I think that it takes more than just being experimental ... you also need outstanding musicianship or high artistic standards. For example, I don't think that the "Einstürzende Neubauten" are prog ... they're extremely experimental, but not very good musicians. I dont think good musicianship is a prerequisite. I think progressiveness in music is in the ideas. It just so happens that most known prog bands can play to a very high standard too. Luckily many execelltn musos were drawn to prog. Hawkwind are a good example of a progressive band who musicianship has at best always been average and at worst been appalling; certainly when compared alongside other prog bands. Also, a lot of Brian Eno's music was very 'progressive' but there was little evidence of virtuosity in his playing (I dont know if he is virtuoso standard or not)

I don't care much for Hawkwind ... but I have no problems accepting them as a prog band. I think that "Prog" has many different forms and criteria, and a lack in one criteria can be compensated by others ... up to a certain point. And of course there's a historic component as well - if a band was always considered to be prog for several decades, then they are, no matter what we think about the music today.

About Brian Eno: Like I said before - minimalistic music is rarely about virtuosity ... in this genre there are other criteria than for example in "standard prog metal" like Dream Theater or Symphony X, where virtuosic playing is one of the cornerstones.

^ except when it's prog-related, proto-prog or various artists ... 

clarke2001 wrote:   Furthermore, if an fictional band releases an album, let's say, 60 minutes longs with 8 tracks on it... Track 01: average country with spices of rock in Garth Brooks style Track 02: a blues piece utilising slide Track 03: a heavy metal number in Megadeth style Track 04: a short folkish protest tune, with mouth organ (harmonica) Track 05: a collaboration with a tenor in "Pavarotti meets Bono Vox for world peace" style Track 06: alternative piece between Stereolab and Sonic Youth Track 07: pure contemporary classical, short piano piece, because keyboardist is classically trained and insisted on inclusion of his work on this album. Just unaccompanied Steinway piano. Track 08: (longest track, 10 mins) electronic piece, typical acid-house, no live instruments, because guitarist is toying with computers in his free time, and wanted to include his piece on this album. ...this album is diverse and eclectic. Is it prog?

^

Penumbra wrote: I mean, why does "91205" stand alongside Close to the Edge (just because it's by Yes)?

MikeEnRegalia wrote: ^ maybe CttE is "very progressive" and 90125 is "moderately progressive".

vingaton wrote: "I enjoy 90125 much more. Really. And I do find it to be Progressive because it contains non-standard time sigs, non-standard song format, songs >5minutes long, and excellent musicianship with pieces that an average musician could not play."StyLaZyn   Funny comment that gets to the root of the matter.    There is an unsaid racial element lurking just below the surface as well.  There is a distinct bias toward western or at the very least European derived artists on this site and in the so-called "Prog" genre(if there actually is one).  For instance: Time signatures and virtuosity? Then where are Miles Davis and Herbie Hancock?  Nucleus and Passport are listed though.  Osabisa is listed, but there are many many more amazing black artists not considered like Sun Ra.  Also Native America and other aboriginally inspired music like that recorded by Cusco is not considered.