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Frippertron View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Your thoughts on albums being remastered
    Posted: February 26 2007 at 13:20

I am totally fed up with it!  I tried for ages to get hold of ELOs "Out of The Blue" only to be told that it will be remastered (at a higher cost than you would normally have paid for it in its original state).  Its now been re-released and as always, is not as cheap as it once was.

This also happened with Steve Hillage. 

Having heard the un-remasters of Steve Hillage CDs, then waited so long these re-masters, I have come to the conclusion that it is a total rip off!  Maybe my ears arent that accustomed to the slight changes in EQ perhaps, or 1% more cymbals etc.

These wonderful record companies who do this, also decide that the £5.99 you have been paying at Music Zone  was too much of a good deal so delete the album for a while, re-release it, add a few tracks that you realise why they were missed off in the first place, or some badly recorded live track, then pay £10 upwards.

 

 

 

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2007 at 13:25
I like some remasters that include live tracks or interviews (like the Jethro Tull remasters I have) but it is a waste of money if the bonus tracks are no good. Unless the sound quality is better. So I guess yeah I like remasters and they are good when albums are scarce. But if the album was widely available and they take it off to remaster it and get more money out of people then I don't like it at all.

I'm sort of in the middle between like and dislike. How about indifferent.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2007 at 13:26
I don't understand your problem. It's not like you *have* to buy the re-master/re-release if you already have the original release.

For those who don't have the original - you can either buy the original or the re-master/re-release ... they all have advantages and disadvantages.

Only you can decide!Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2007 at 13:48

Personally I think remasters are great. They look better (often having enhanced artwork) and generally sound better (plus the addition of bonus tracks - yes sometimes they might not be very good but who cares?)

I'm at the stage now where I won't buy an album I want even if it's cheap (e.g., £5 in a local store), in the belief that at some point it will be remastered. I'm a (relatively) patient man. I can wait.... 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2007 at 15:19
Remasters can be real treats. Rhino/Elektra's Yes remasters are great, as are the King Crimson 30th (or was it 35th?) Anniversary  remasters. I have heard about bad remasters though, bur fortunately I haven't encountered any myself so far.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2007 at 15:26
Most remasters of '70s material are very good (IMO). The one's I have heard are the previously mentioned Jethro Tull, King Crimson and Yes remasters. Also very good are the Rush Mercury, Gentle Giant 35th anniversary and the Klaatu Bulldog remasters - oh, and the Genesis and VDGG are great also.

Edited by Firepuck - February 26 2007 at 15:27
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2007 at 15:34
I would much prefer remasters. I read some grumbles about the VDGG remasters, and all the usual nonsense about how the previous CDs were 'nearer to the original vinyl/sound warmer'. I don't want it to sound like the vinyl, frankly, and if those people do, stick to the vinyls. It's as simple as that. IMHO, those VDGG CDs were in such a higher orbit to the older ones it was unbelievable, especially Pawn Hearts which opened it out much more. The old ones were flat sounding. In fact, most of Virgin's catalogue that was done way back I find very deficient in terms of packaging too- no lyrics and often the gatefold/back cover was cropped (Spectral Mornings and Nadir's Big Chance spring to mind) for the booklet (though most of them didn't have them save track details). Looked cheap and nasty.
 
Although the extras weren't really more than 'one play' affairs, the Rhino remasters were superb. They sound truly vibrant and fresh to me- haven't dated a jot. I wonder what the 5.1 Genesis releases will be like too- extras are promised, as well as a DVD of extra material for all discs, I believe.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2007 at 15:46
Napster is really cool when it comes to remasters ... just a few days ago they released all the Steve Hillage albums. Ok, it's all in 192kbps WMA ... but the quality is good enough to check whether you like the changes they made to the sound.

Edited by MikeEnRegalia - February 26 2007 at 15:46
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2007 at 15:58
Originally posted by Frippertron Frippertron wrote:

I am totally fed up with it!  I tried for ages to get hold of ELOs "Out of The Blue" only to be told that it will be remastered (at a higher cost than you would normally have paid for it in its original state).  Its now been re-released and as always, is not as cheap as it once was.

This also happened with Steve Hillage. 

Having heard the un-remasters of Steve Hillage CDs, then waited so long these re-masters, I have come to the conclusion that it is a total rip off!  Maybe my ears arent that accustomed to the slight changes in EQ perhaps, or 1% more cymbals etc.

These wonderful record companies who do this, also decide that the £5.99 you have been paying at Music Zone  was too much of a good deal so delete the album for a while, re-release it, add a few tracks that you realise why they were missed off in the first place, or some badly recorded live track, then pay £10 upwards.

 

I certainly wouldn't underestimate the cynicism of record companies getting fans to re-buy  the same material for the umpteenth time.  On the other hand, when new remasters come out it can actually mean the chance to pick up bargains if you're not bothered about having the shiny new version.  As people upgrade their collections and retailers clear out 'obsolete' stock you can often find the old CDs for peanuts on E-Bay and from Amazon sellers.
 
I do sometimes re-buy when remasters come out, but mainly if I'm unhappy with the sound on the versions I've got or the remasters have additional material that actually seems interesting (pretty rare for me).  I loved the King Crimson and Gentle Giant anniversary reissues for instance, but I'm not much interested in the new Yes remasters.  To my ears the Joe Gastwirt nineties versions sound very good indeed and I'm sceptical of how much real improvement can be squeezed out by making yet another pass at those seventies master tapes.  And I certainly don't want to own a copy of Relayer with stuff like a "studio run through" of GoD tacked onto it.  I'll just listen to the version they actually finished and were happy with, thanks...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2007 at 23:53
My experience with remasters has led me to judge each on its own merits.  I've bought some that sounded worse than the original, some that sounded better.  Bonus tracks can be great or awful.  One thing I can say with certainty: don't sell your original until you've listened to the remaster thoroughly.  Many remasters are simply louder than the original, with the bass and high frequencies boosted.  If you have a sound system which allows you to adjust the EQ (a must in my book), the original issue is probably fine.  There are exceptions;  the original "Lamb Lies Down" and "Ummagumma" CD's had very audible tape hiss in the quiet passages, and the remasters fixed that.  I just got the Hillage remaster of "Fish Rising", and it sounds much better than the tinny, muddy-sounding original, and the bonus tracks are worth having, too.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2007 at 05:38

There are good and bad remastering.

 
It appeared that taking the original masters prepared for vinyl and directly using them for CD, lead to some aural inbalance being introduced - CDs have  a fuller aural range (cf. LPs >15 minutes per side), so top end frequencies appeared up front. Hence remasters that fixed that were a godsend. However, remasters taking you from x bits to x+ y bits  seem more difficult to detect any real beneficial changes (e.g. comment often made about some Mahavishnu Orchestra (re)remasters).
 
 
Remastering of old 78rpm discs (often meaning more than clean-up of surface noise) , especially when the masters have long disappeared, can be really excellent. Check out  Aussie recording engineer Robert Armstrong's  series of recordings issued by the BBC Records in the late 80's - some of the Bix Beiderbeck remasters have gained a wonderful depth of clarity. Sony's Roots'n'Blues label, largely devoted to issuing 20's to 40's blues recordings (plus the odd Taj Mahal, Mike Bloomfield album) has used the Cambridge CEDAR aural clean -up and remastering system with some staggering results. However, I still wait to heard Blind Lemon Jefferson in scratch-free aural clarity. My favourite story of aural clean up and remastering, is what Nimbus records did on discovery of  heap of mint live long forgotten opera recordings found stored at La Scala Milan. The Nimbus engineers realised the large format 78rpm discs were intended to be heard on a traditional 78rpm gramophone - so they built the best modern electronic 78rpm player known and recorded the sound coming from the horn onto digital tape. Apparently some of the 30's operatic divas sound perfect.


Edited by Dick Heath - February 27 2007 at 05:39
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2007 at 20:01

I have mixed feelings about remasters and most of the pros/cons have been brought up here already.  My contention is that if you own a previous edition and the same label is doing the remaster, the consumer should be able to exchange their old copies for a discount on the remaster.....that and a free Twix bar.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2007 at 20:11
Remasters has it's up's and down's. I hate the Yes remasters. While the packaging is brilliant, those bonus tracks are really annoying. Like on the Drama remaster where 10 tracks are added as bonuses. I think they should have been released in a box set with Yes rarities rather than on the remasters.
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2007 at 21:54
One thing I hate about remasters is the so-called "penalty tracks" that stretch an album onto a second CD.  For example, Frank Zappa's Uncle Meat easily fits onto one CD.  However, they added so much extra material (most of it garbage) that the album had to be extended to two CD's.  Leave those tracks on an outakes collection that can be purchased by someone who actually wants it.  

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2007 at 22:10
Hey - the remaster of "Out of the Blue" is out and is on sale in stores.  I haven't heard it yet but I'm going to be a sucker and buy it for the vouluminous pictures and the 3 extra bonus tracks.  It's gotten good reviews from British prog magazines.  It's my favorite ELO album.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed, though.  I really hope it's good.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2007 at 22:36
I don't mind remastering, but I usually shy away from the bonus tracks.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2007 at 12:17

Probably the most important aspect is whether the "remastered" albums really sound remastered or not.  For me, increased volume, clarity, and sonic/stereo separation is what counts.

For comparison, the Jethro Tull remasters really sound enhanced and you can heard the details of the music much better.  The music also sounds less dated (like it was recorded more recently).  On the other hand, the Gentle Giant and Genesis "pseudo-remasters" only sound marginally better (more bass), and don't seem worth the extra expense if one already has the earlier versions on CD (although the lyrics are great to have).  
 
As soundsweird points out above, an EQ (equalizer) in a person's stereo system can make most dated CD's sound remastered.   That's probably the best improvement anyone can do.  Then you don't have to rely on the CD manufacturer's to get the right sound.
 
Bonus tracks (especially studio) and enhanced album art are other usual benefits.  It's great when there are pictures, album recording notes, and when lyrics are restored.
 
Again, I'd point to the Jethro Tull remasters as one of the best examples of how it should be done.  It looks like a lot of attention and care went into producing those.  A quality-oriented approach, even if probably expensive for the record companies.
 
It all boils down to knowing what "improvements" really exist on the remasters before buying, to avoid high expectations.  That way you can avoid wasting money on the fake/hyped ones, and can only focus on the true enhanced ones...
  
 
 
 


Edited by Flip_Stone - March 07 2007 at 12:51
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2007 at 12:58
Most of our local 70s music hasn't been reissued again, so it'll be a long wait for the remasters... Ouch
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2007 at 13:09
I agree, the Tull remasters were an example of how it should be done, imo. They sounded great (the older CD of This Was especially I found to be dreadful), and the extras were mostly essential to the album in question- fewer 'one play' jobs (in fact I rarely played most of them that much!) like those Yes demo versions. And what's more, the Tull ones cost around £5, save the doubles, near me in most any shop. Cost effective, but superbly done. I've been getting most of them lately- surprised at how much I like the late 80s and onwards albums.
 
However, I think 'Aqualung' NEEDS a overhaul desparately. The Thick As A Brick one sounds great to me, and was done around the same time, but the Aqualung 'remaster' sounds terrible- really flat, especially when compared to the later remasters. Also, the extras were largely superfluous- BBC sessions from 1968, which had not only been already released, but Aqualung came out in 1971!!Confused
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2007 at 21:45
Its annoying and iffy.  Sometimes they remaster things like crap and a lot of good stuff isn't in the mix anymore.  Other times they don't do a bad job and everything is ok.  Adding two bonus tracks and jacking the price up to 25 bucks is not good though.  Lame liner notes are also not appreciated.

Check out the Rhino reissues of the Elvis Costello albums.  They are so well done.  Great full sound, plenty of pages on what Elvis had in mind for the album at the time (written of course by Costello himself), a 2nd cd of demos, live tracks, b-sides, etc.  And for 13-18 dollars.  Its a goooood deal.
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