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Wilcey View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: IMHO........ (Reviews)
    Posted: February 05 2007 at 10:42
I have just wasted an hour or so reading some reviews.......I say wasted, because I should have been doing something else......... not that reading the reviews was a waste of time!
 
It got me thinking though, the majority of 1 star (or indeed 5 star) reviews are guest reviews rather than collabs or admins etc.
Also I find some of these reviews incredible! I started to wonder what do we expect from our musicians? and because we have a pc at our disposal and the ability to "publish" a review of a body of work, does that tempt some folk over the edge with power? Some reviews I have read have been border line libel/defamation of the artists, or the artists work. I guess they remain on the site because they are given the "In my honest opinion" tag........ does IMHO really alow one to get away with really awful/untrue comments about a body of work or about a musician?
Do you think that some folk like to slate something that is successful, just because of the greeneyed devil or spite?  Most of the reported reviews are nonsensical ramblings, but there are a lot of reviews that scrape through because of the over use of "IMHO" as a tool to validate plain old bile.
 
The other thing that I often think about........ is IF an album is truly SO bad, WHY waste your precious (& superior) time writing about it?
 
I am really not "having a go" at any one person here..... and most of the bile laden reviews tend to be by folk who don't spend time here on the forum, I am seriously CURIOUS as to what motivates these reviews.
 
IF you REALLY don't like a band.......... is it necessary to sl*g off EVERY album they make?
Do you think it is fair to make personal (or untrue) comments about a musician?
Do you think that by releasing some music that they should accept this kind of thing... and if so why?
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2007 at 10:47
I agree about the personal comments thing. No need for it really. I find it a bit distasteful.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2007 at 10:49
I do agree 100% with your point of view - I, for one, have never given a 1-star rating to an album. Even when I review something I don't particularly like (for instance, most albums by Dream Theater), I try to be as objective as I can and avoid senseless bashing, which is, to my mind, both immature and unprofessional.

However, immature (not to say downright disturbed) people seem to abound in this sad world - and I think you're perfectly aware of the fact that ,in many cases, so-called 'professional' journalists offer the worst possible example as concerns gratuitous, almost libelous sl*gging off of albums and musicians.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2007 at 10:53
^^Some "professional" journos are probably the worst!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2007 at 10:55
If you are a professional journalist aren't you supposed to write more objectively and stay away from putting your opinions in your work?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2007 at 10:58
if you're reporting the news, yes. but if you're reviewing you're meant to write a load of nebulous crap that no-one can draw any opinions from at all, and invent new genres at the same time.
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Wilcey View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2007 at 10:59
I think that there are some pro- music- journos who can hold a grudge longer than life itself......... and you will never recieve a good review from them.......
 
I was thinking more what motivates us in review writing.........
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2007 at 11:02

If there are any which you think cross the line PC, just put them in the Reviews reporting thread. If you think they are worthy of discussion, the "Reviews discussion" thread is the place.

Alternatively, a PM to Atkingani or myself will get our attention.

While it would be impractical for us to monitor the veracity of all reviews, or to ensure the facts are always 100% correct, we will deal with anything which is abusive, personally offensive, or which makes derogatory statements about musicians which are untrue or irrelevant.

Clearly we all have different opinions, and I know you are not wishing to suppress constructive criticism here, but I do agree that there is a line which should not be crossed.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2007 at 11:06
Originally posted by prog-chick prog-chick wrote:

I think that there are some pro- music- journos who can hold a grudge longer than life itself......... and you will never recieve a good review from them.......
 
I was thinking more what motivates us in review writing.........


Well I usually write a review when I am listening to an album for the umpteenth time. I rarely give out negative reviews because by me listening to it a lot of times means I like it. Only once have I given a rating below a 3.

I usually warn people sometime in the review (rush reviews) that I am very opinionated about the band and love the music to bits. Well I did at least once.

I can't figure out what would motivate someone to write a totally negative review without seemingly giving the album a few more chances.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2007 at 11:06
I agree with you Bob, and to be fair I think that the site here is very well run, and always interesting.
 I was wondering more from a psychology point of view what makes some one say  "X can't sing" rather than, "I don't like the sound of X's voice" or "X is a rip off" rather than "X reminds me of something else"  rather than why these things can go unchallenged.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2007 at 11:08
well, progismylife, you can't truly loathe what you're not familiar with. but I agree that people should still write with a little civility even if they feel they're reviewing the worst album of all time.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2007 at 11:26
While some of my early reviews are still to be bettered, I do not have a qualm writing a good 1* (star) review. One thing you will not see from me is consistent 1* reviews throughout a whole artist's discography. If I was to do that, the artistes would not deserve my attention, since I dislike everything he's ever done.  But in order to be complete, one has the duty to review album he does not like as much as the one he likes.
 
Although with the free downloading, this notion has tendency to disappear, "artistes" have the pretention of selling us their works at a fairly expensive price (hard earned cash in general) inb order to live off it. Fine with me. So they print a book, a movie, a record, a serigraphy, a painting etc.... This means that they want a feedback. If you are afraid of negative feedback, don't publish; keep your art to yourself.
Movie directors get slashed for their works all the time, just open up any local free press cluttering your mail box, reviews are there to entice us or warn us about the dangers of dishing out $£€ for food, music, computer games, clothes, movies , theatres etc...
 
Writing a good 1 star review without getting personal or sarcastic is simply not easy. Finding why you don't like something means analysing the work you don't like. Masochist??? Not me!!! So this is proibably why there are much more 5 stars reviews than 1 star reviews on this site. Yet we know that many of the albums that are not rated in a third of fourth league (as in football categories leagues)  artist are probably the ones ti stay away from.
 
i think a good reviewer should use one star as he does 5 stars: sparingly.
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Wilcey View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2007 at 11:45
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

 So they print a book, a movie, a record, a serigraphy, a painting etc.... This means that they want a feedback. If you are afraid of negative feedback, don't publish; keep your art to yourself.
 
i think a good reviewer should use one star as he does 5 stars: sparingly.
 
I am not really thinking about negative feed back, I think that everyone has a right to dislike something, and to say that they dislike it.  But some reviews go beyond that and rather than state that something is disliked, a review might say that someone is unable which I think is a very different kettle of fish.
This is the point where I start to question the validity of a review. Or look into the credentials of the reviewer........
I believe that all artists are used to criticism and like you say it comes with the territory, however should insults/libel/defamation/out and out lies be accepted under the guise of "opinon"? Should a review be a personal slant against the musician rather than an opinion on the body of work they produce?
 
I don't want it to look like I am getting "bolshy" about this, I am genuinely curious.
I think (because I have been witness to this) that some fans will cultivate more "competition" or "rivalry" between two or more bands where there is none amongst the musicians, and to enhance the profile of their favourite artist will give poor reviews to those they see as a rival. Which I think is poor sport.
 
There is this thing I say to my kids "make yourslf look good by doing good things, not by making others look bad" 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2007 at 12:03
Quotes from Prog Chick's original post:
 
"It got me thinking though, the majority of 1 star (or indeed 5 star) reviews are guest reviews rather than collabs or admins etc."
 
That's because fans with no real attachment to the site think that every album they like is a masterpiece and don't take the time actually read the guidelines.  It reminds me of a "four hundred greatest rock albums" so you'd like to guide on Amazon, which casually remarked that every single one was a masterpiece.  Well, for me to have four hundred masterpieces (I know 6 masterpieces in about 200 albums), I would have to know 13333 albums...
 
"Also I find some of these reviews incredible! I started to wonder what do we expect from our musicians? and because we have a pc at our disposal and the ability to "publish" a review of a body of work, does that tempt some folk over the edge with power? "
 
Yes, it does make them feel they have power.  Lots of guest reviewers openly state that they are giving it a rating only to affect the overall rating of the album on the site.  They think that these rankings actually matter, and they like having the power to change it.
 
"Some reviews I have read have been border line libel/defamation of the artists, or the artists work. I guess they remain on the site because they are given the "In my honest opinion" tag........ does IMHO really alow one to get away with really awful/untrue comments about a body of work or about a musician? "
 
These are indeed a problem... and IMHO should not be an excuse to get away with this crap.  How you like an album is an opinion.  Facts are not opinions.  Facts are hard facts, and they cannot be changed.  Writing an honest one star review in which you explain why think the album is actively BAD is one thing (I do that), but writing hate mail with some insignificant comments added in to fit the guidelines is not.
 
"The other thing that I often think about........ is IF an album is truly SO bad, WHY waste your precious (& superior) time writing about it?"
 
Here, I have to disagree.  Writing one star reviews is important, because you don't want other people to stumble on a bad album.  If all reviews were 4 and 5 stars, it would be impossible to use the ratings to determine if an album is good or not.
 
"IF you REALLY don't like a band.......... is it necessary to sl*g off EVERY album they make?"
 
If you REALLY don't like a band... why do you have more than two of their albums.  Are you a masochist?
 
 
 
 
For the most part, I agree with you (except the one time otherwise noted).  That's why we should do away with guest reviews and ratings without reviews.  If you really want to make your opinion known on an album, you can take five minutes to create an account, and you can scrape 50 words together that express how you feel (without being rude or untruthful).  IMHOWink.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2007 at 12:24
I give considerable thought to the number of stars I will give a recording and probably feel a whole lot more pressure to justify my reasoning when I'm giving a 1 star rating.  It's nothing personal about the artist(s) because I sincerely feel they probably did the best they could on a particular project but if an album is a total waste of $15 or $20 bucks then I feel just as compelled to warn others who might be tempted to buy it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2007 at 13:55
Guest reviews will soon be stopped. All reviewers will need to have registered with the forum before they can post a review.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2007 at 14:25
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

Guest reviews will soon be stopped. All reviewers will need to have registered with the forum before they can post a review.
 
By "guest" you mean guests guests (?) or just review-guests? I mean, I'm a guest, many others are guest... Would that mean all our reviews are no more? I can't write reviews no more? I'm a forum member but in the review site I'm listed only as guest. I may fall for sentimentalism form time to time, but hey, IT'S MUSIC, it's not an exact science, so I think we can put some feeling into our reviews. Some people put so much "effort" into their reviews but as they limit themselves to say "x is good" then nobody has a problem with those. I really can't see guest reviewers going out. ON the other hand, if you say "guest" meaning a forum guest, then I agree completely, we would get rid of a lot of poorly written reviews. Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2007 at 14:30
Teo, don't panic, please... By 'guest' we mean people who are not forum members, and you are. As to now, reviews by people who have no forum ID can still be posted - in the future, they won't be any longer. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2007 at 14:32
Originally posted by prog-chick prog-chick wrote:

I
 
The other thing that I often think about........ is IF an album is truly SO bad, WHY waste your precious (& superior) time writing about it?
 
So we only have to review album we like??ConfusedConfusedConfused
 
Man I would guess in that case is even more correct to write a review, a respectful, well-written review of course. I mean, you could help some people save some money if they choose to follow your comments.
 
I think the important is to make yourslef clear, put arguments for your position, no matter what it is. If people here want only praise-filled reviews, well, what's the point? What's the point about writing anything, about art criticism? Man, I say all of these because some people think "journalism" is something bad or anything.... I guess then everybody should write for newspapers and in good books... well, the internet will take care of that in a few decades, anyway. I feel attacked because I study journalism and I would like, please, if you (not you Prog-chick but everybodyBig%20smile) can refer to any profession with more respect.
 
Peace on earth. And let T's rain from heaven.
 
Big%20smileBig%20smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2007 at 14:32
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

Guest reviews will soon be stopped. All reviewers will need to have registered with the forum before they can post a review.
 
Thats a good idea, even though the reviews reporting thread will almost cease to exist after thatWink
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