TOP 10 PROG ALBUMS OF 2006 - POLL RESULT!

laplace wrote: dalt99 wrote: laplace wrote: dalt99 wrote: Kayo Dot is just noise. It has no melody. your opinion's going to change the world, sweetie   Probably not but I have the freedom to express it as do you.   PS - Do you really think Kayo Dot is better and more revolutionary than Eskaton's "4 Visions"? That is an album with a different sound (especially for the time) yet with well written music. both albums are equally unrevolutionary and equally brilliant

Edited by dalt99 - February 01 2007 at 05:00

MikeEnRegalia wrote: dalt99 wrote: laplace wrote: dalt99 wrote: laplace wrote: dalt99 wrote: Kayo Dot is just noise. It has no melody. your opinion's going to change the world, sweetie   Probably not but I have the freedom to express it as do you.   PS - Do you really think Kayo Dot is better and more revolutionary than Eskaton's "4 Visions"? That is an album with a different sound (especially for the time) yet with well written music. both albums are equally unrevolutionary and equally brilliant   LOL OK I'll give you the unrevolutionary part but if music that pretty much goes nowhere is brilliant to you than that's great. I'm glad you like it. I actually do own "Dowsing Anemone With Copper Tongue" and find *PARTS* of it pretty good (mainly when they are playing their instruments and not thrashing on them) but saying it's equally brilliant to 4 Visions is highly debatable.   But, these are just opinions and I respect yours even though I highly disagree.     See how you contradict yourself (the parts I marked blue)?

dalt99 wrote: ^^ Like for instance, I thought the movie "Little Nicky" was HORRIBLE and pointless but I laughed at a couple things Rodney Dangerfield said. My whole point is that Kayo Dot (in my opinion) seems out of place at #1 when it is ranked #40 on the Top 100 list compared to many other albums that are rated in the top 1-20. I can see PFM or Steve Hackett being #1 and Kayo Dot being #3 or #4 but #1 is a bit of a stretch. I do realize it's the opinions of the collabs so to that I have no problem. It's just odd there are no other post-rock and avant/RIO albums in the top 5. Maybe besides Kayo Dot it was a bad year for the genre?

dalt99 wrote: avestin wrote: dalt99 wrote: ^^ Like for instance, I thought the movie "Little Nicky" was HORRIBLE and pointless but I laughed at a couple things Rodney Dangerfield said. My whole point is that Kayo Dot (in my opinion) seems out of place at #1 when it is ranked #40 on the Top 100 list compared to many other albums that are rated in the top 1-20. I can see PFM or Steve Hackett being #1 and Kayo Dot being #3 or #4 but #1 is a bit of a stretch. I do realize it's the opinions of the collabs so to that I have no problem. It's just odd there are no other post-rock and avant/RIO albums in the top 5. Maybe besides Kayo Dot it was a bad year for the genre?     Hi Dalt, I am not here to defend anything (and I am tired of being called names, I do not "smoke" anything and was of perfectly sound mind when voting for this album). Why always go for name calling? Did I offend you in any way? Did I call you names? Did I ever mistreat you? If I remember correctly, we had some interchanging posts annd PM's in which we communicated well.   I have my own criticism on the poll. But I'll spare it for now. There is no need to take the results so personal or to the heart. It's other people's opinions. Respect that and the same will be done to your opinions.   Just to point out a few things:   There is no correlation between the people who reviewed the album to the people who voted for it in the poll, that is one  of the reasons for the incoherence to which you point out.   I also love those other albums mentioned (in fact all albums from #1-#30 and beyond are albums I heard and liked (a lot or lesser so, but still)).   Since most those who voted were exposed to KD, and many liked it apparentely, they voted for it.   But not many were exposed to other fine Avant albums like Yugen's album, Zaar, Unexpect (metal/avant), Panzerpappa, OOIOO, NeBeLNeST, Hamster Theatre, Estradasphere, John Zorn, October Equus, French TV... So this might not have been a very good year for Avant, but there have been albums which if you are into this genre, you can't ignore (Yugen and Zaar are good examples).   And if there is one Avant album, then there must be another one? Why? WHy is it weird that there is one Avant album and that's it? Not many who voted are exposed to this genre and not many like it among those that voted and not many among the voters found good albums from that genre this year. That is why.   You don't agree with the choice, that is perfectly fine as is the choice of PA collabs.   Don't agree, great. But don't insult. Your later posts/arguments here, are a good example of discussion, and nice and interesting to read.     Hi Avestin,   First of all I want to tell you that I respect your opinions a lot. You are always fair and honest and I like that you listen to ALL types of prog music from any type of artist whether they are BIG like Tool or small like Yugen. That is fairly rare and I appreciate that about you. I too listen to ALL types of prog CDs whether it's Tool or Zenit.  While I will totally admit that I don't care much for most music in the post-rock genre, I do like many RIO bands and some Avant garde/jazz. I would be interested in knowing what your top 5 was for 2006 Avestin. It's my own opinion but how Kayo Dot can be #1 is very perplexing to me. You mentioned bands like Nemo, Deluge Grander and La Machera Di Cera who I thought had much better albums than Kayo Dot. I would like to know from you and others who voted for Kayo Dot as #1, why they felt that way. Sometimes I think bands like Kayo Dot get too much credit for being different and other bands not enough credit for writing well crafted music with consistant, complete albums. That includes other RIO and Avant bands who don't (in my opinion) write songs that are so self indulgent and aimless that you are listening to the band for an experience and not for the well written music. Sometimes I think people give too much credit to artistic content and too little credit to great craftsmanship.   As far as saying "you must be smoking some good stuff", I am sorry that you took it as an insult. I know you live in the USA but maybe you don't know that saying that isn't an insult as much as it's a friendly jab of not understanding an opinion. If you have heard the phrase, "you must be smoking crack" then you know what I mean. I respect the collabs and as you can see from the posts that followed I was never mean spirited.   Sometimes I think we take these Top 'X' lists too seriously but then sometimes I think we should take them more seriously. On probably the #1 prog fan review site in the world, when there is a top X list of 2006, I just expected more than to have an average album for the genre of post-rock to be #1 for the year when a band from the '70's in PFM can come back in the year 2006 and create a STUNNER of a CD and not get the nod. I would like to know why actually. This is not a question of why *my* favorite CD didnt' get #1, but I just can't see how Kayo Dot did. Top 10 sure. Oh well. Opinions! lol

You just answered your own question. It's nothing perplexing really, Dowsing Anemone is an amazing, beautiful album that a majority of the collabs, myself included, to be the best or close to best release of 2006. Either from personal taste or not giving the album enough time, you don't feel the same way. Personally, I don't enjoy PFM's new album nor Steve Hackett's however I don't see some great mystery as to how theyre in the top 5.

Thanks for your replies OpethGuitarist and Equality 7-2521. It's not surprising to me that you prefer Kayo Dot to the new CD's by PFM and Steve Hackett. Being in your late teens, early 20's it may be easier for you than me to enjoy the "newer" sound of prog music. I am 36 and grew up with Yes, King Crimson, Gentle Giant, Genesis, Rush, Kansas, Jethro Tull, etc. so maybe I don't give enough of my time trying to "get into" bands like Kayo Dot. I have listened to the CD about 10 times and I know that it's not for me. I don't see the "beauty" in it like you do. I don't think it's beautiful music at all. To me, albums like "Hybris" and "Tales from Topographic Oceans" are varied albums that are beautiful. Hybris, like Kayo Dot's new CD is dark and complex but it has a technically well written musical structure to it where I feel that Kayo Dot is just way too UNstructured to be considered on such a high level.  I do appreciate that you really like it though and I don't think less of anyone for that. I just PERSONALLY prefer to reward bands that play music that is both experimental and entertaining while still writing songs that have some structure and composition. To me that is a much tougher feat. Hybris for instance, to me, is a perfect modern example. It's dark and complex enough to be enjoyed by those that love difficult music while still being structured and cohesive enough to be enjoyed by those who prefer symphonic and classic prog. From what I have heard it seems that if Hybris would have came out this year instead of 1992, it would probably not have been #1 ahead of Kayo Dot.

Edited by dalt99 - February 01 2007 at 14:28

dalt99 wrote: Thanks for your replies OpethGuitarist and Equality 7-2521. It's not surprising to me that you prefer Kayo Dot to the new CD's by PFM and Steve Hackett. Being in your late teens, early 20's it may be easier for you than me to enjoy the "newer" sound of prog music. I am 36 and grew up with Yes, King Crimson, Gentle Giant, Genesis, Rush, Kansas, Jethro Tull, etc. so maybe I don't give enough of my time trying to "get into" bands like Kayo Dot. I have listened to the CD about 10 times and I know that it's not for me. I don't see the "beauty" in it like you do. I don't think it's beautiful music at all. To me, albums like "Hybris" and "Tales from Topographic Oceans" are varied albums that are beautiful. Hybris, like Kayo Dot's new CD is dark and complex but it has a technically well written musical structure to it where I feel that Kayo Dot is just way too UNstructured to be considered on such a high level.  I do appreciate that you really like it though and I don't think less of anyone for that. I just PERSONALLY prefer to reward bands that play music that is both experimental and entertaining while still writing songs that have some structure and composition. To me that is a much tougher feat. Hybris for instance, to me, is a perfect modern example. It's dark and complex enough to be enjoyed by those that love difficult music while still being structured and cohesive enough to be enjoyed by those who prefer symphonic and classic prog. From what I have heard it seems that if Hybris would have came out this year instead of 1992, it would probably not have been #1 ahead of Kayo Dot.   Musically, what is it about Kayo Dot that you really like?

Sleeper basically responded to this for me (with much accuracy). Thinking my age effects why I like Kayo Dot shows you failed to look at my reviews or my last.fm. If you'll observe them you'll see that out of my top 10 most listened to bands, only one of them formed after 1974. You can also look to see that I am a PFM fan, just simply not of the new album. Although, admittedly I don't care much for Hackett's solo work, but Genesis is in my top 3 bands.

The only thing my age may contribute is making me a bit more open minded and not locked into a sense of nostalgia (not a shot at the older members, many have a much more eclectic taste than me). What I like about Kayo Dot is the bridging of genres and disparate forms of composition. I like the avant-garde nature without a reliance on form. I like to overwhelming fluidity present in their pieces that allows the musical ideas to developed naturally without any controls. Most of all, I find the music downright beautiful yet incredibly bleak at the same time. This is a very prevalent contrast in nature and they do a great job of transforming it into music.


EDIT: And in regards to Hybris, if it were released this year I would certainly have not voted it above DAWCT. I find the album to be derivative and stagnating an ever evolving form of music. Besides that objection, what they're doing nowhere compares in quality to those theyre trying to imitate. I think its a 3.5 star album. However, even being derrivative, if it were to deserve 5 stars I would merit that. I don't want to come across with an attitude that anything original is automatically better than something not so original.


Edited by Equality 7-2521 - February 01 2007 at 15:35

Thanks for making broad generalizations about the music I like.

I'll remember to do that about your character next time.

EDIT: Sorry for being a prick in this post.


Edited by OpethGuitarist - February 01 2007 at 19:42

Yeah, I mean, it's a VOTE-- the results are counted and we get a list of winners. Heck, my number one album for 2006 was Don Caballero's 'World Class Listening Problem', which as a collab, I nominated. I don't think it even made it onto the final list, but that didn't surprise or bother me and I'd still nominate them today.    




Edited by Atavachron - February 01 2007 at 21:55

I won't talk.... But I agree with everything.

dalt99 wrote: Thank you Equality 7-2521 for your reply. I did look at your reviews and did notice that you do enjoy many bands from the beginning years of prog rock. I merely observe that it could be easier for someone your age to "get into" a band such as Kayo Dot than someone of my age that grew up in the early-late 80's. For instance I probably appreciate bands such as Motley Crue, Asia and AC/DC more than people your age probably do. Even bands like Dream Theater may be too late 80's metal sounding for some people your age. Anyway, age difference or not I am not saying that's the main issue. My main point is this:   The #1 pick of 2006 out of the collabs was Kayo Dot's new CD over PFM, Hackett, Tangent, Tool, Mars Volta, etc. even though it's the 40TH PICK in the Top 100 list on this site.   That to me shows that the collabs do not agree with the majority when it comes to the #1 pick only. I just found that odd and a bit surprising. Is Kayo Dot deserving of #1? That's again, purely opinion based. The fact is though that it's NOT the popular sentiment. I guess I am a bit disappointed in the collabs for their focus lately on Post-Rock and RIO and feel that this site is becoming a bit unbalanced. i hope for more discussion of great modern prog bands such as Retroheads, Brighteye Brison, Zenit, Deluge Grander, Frogg Cafe, Little Atlas, Willowglass, October Equus, Trespass, Nemo, Notabene, Nexus, La Tulipe Noire, Black Bonzo, etc. These bands deserve our support just as much as the Kayo Dots of the world.   As far as Hybris goes, again it's opinion whether it's better than or worse than Kayo Dot. I will only again bring up the fact that on this site of fellow proggers, it is ranked #1 by FAR for 1992 with a 4.48 average out of 168 votes and sits at #20 of ALL TIME on this site. Again you are in the minority. Not saying the majority is always right. I am in the majority of course on this one and I believe Hybris to be one of the best prog albums of the last 20 years. I think some people (not directing at you specifically) are unaware of how difficult it is to create an album such as Hybris. Yes it is similar to the 70's bands but is every bit as brilliant compositionally as 99% of the albums of the 70's while of course not being as groundbreaking. Someone who dismisses Hybris ONLY due to it's "stagnation" of sound is being naive in my opinion.

It is popular sentiment amoung the collabs. I believe Joey mentioned the exact reason this is. Kayo Dot because of its Avant-Garde structure is going to be very much hit or miss, whereas Symphonic Prog such as PFM and Hackett tends to be a bit more agreeable on a fundamental level. This disparity accounts for the score difference. Also if you look, DAWCT has twice as many ratings as does PFM's latest.  I'm sure that album's rating will drop. I have a 3, possibly 2 star, review waiting to be written for it personally.

EDIT: It was The Sleeper who mentioned the hit or miss aspect of Kayo Dot, not Joey.


Edited by Equality 7-2521 - February 02 2007 at 00:38