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Chus View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2007 at 14:37
Originally posted by Ghost Rider Ghost Rider wrote:


Originally posted by Chus Chus wrote:

^^^I haven't listened to any italian jazz-fusion but hope to do so in the near future
I'm not an expert in Italian jazz-fusion, but I often visit a very interesting website called "MovimentiProg" (www.movimentiprog.org), which hosts excellent reviews of bands otherwise quite unknown outside Italy. Speakers of Spanish should find it relatively easy to read these reviews and find out about new (and not so new) Italian jazz-fusion acts. In my visits to the site I've read about quite a few of them!


I find italian harder to read
      
But thanks, I'll be sure to look it up
     

Edited by Chus - January 26 2007 at 14:38
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2007 at 14:54
Thanks for the info, Alucard! I recommend the Live album, and I'll buy myself my own copy if I find one (a friend sent me the songs for me to listen but no info, just the warm recommendation). Somehow I didn't manage to find anything via google because "El Grupo" simply means "The Band" in Spanish and the search results were highly irrelevant. Great name, by the way! Smile

Edited by andu - January 26 2007 at 14:54
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2007 at 15:02
Originally posted by Alucard Alucard wrote:

The following list come from the Jazz-Rock chapter of the ‘Dictionnaire du Jazz‘[Laffont] (1994) written by Xavier Daverat. I don’t agree with everything,  but in a whole it gives a good overlook over Jazz –Rock and the subsections make sense  in terms of developpment of the genre. Records are in quotations marks songs without.

 

1.Proto Jazz-Rock /British Jazz-Rock:

 

Blodwyn Pig - "Ahead Rings Out" (1969)

Graham Bond:  The Grass Is Greener (1963)/ Walkin In The Park (1966)

Colosseum : “Those Who Are About To Die Salute You” (1969)/ “Live” (1971)

Dada : “Dada” (1971)

Dick Heckstall Smith : The Pirate’s Deam (1972)

King Crimson :  Lizard (1970)/ “Islands” (1971)

Manfred Mann: “Chapter Three” (1970)/ “Solar Fire”(1974)

Matching Mole : “Little Red Record” (1972)

Mogul Trash : “Same” (1971)

Nucleus : “We’ll Talk About It Later” (1971)

Soft Machine : Out Bloody Rageous (1970)/ “Six” (1973)

Wizzard : Ball Park Incident (1973)

Robert Wyatt : “Rock Bottom” (1975)


 

2. US Jazz-Rock:

 

Carla Bley : “Escalator Over The Hill” (1968-71)

Gary Burton : Open Your Eyes, You Can Fly (1973)

Stanley Clarke : “Journey To Love” (1976)

Billy Cobham : “Spectrum” (1973)

Larry Corryell : “Spaces” (1969)

Miles Davis : “In A Silent Way” (1969)/ “Bitches Brew (1969)/ “ At Fillmore” (1970) / “Live Evil” (1970)

Al DI Meola : Suite , Golden Dawn (1976)

Jan Hammer : “The First Seven Days” (1975)

Herbie Hancock : “Fat Albert Rotunda” 1970)/ “Sextant” (1972)/

Keith Jarrett : “Hymn & Spheres” (1976)

John Mc Laughlin “ My Golas Beyond (1970)/ A Love Supreme (woth C. Santana) (1973)

Mahavishnu Orchestra : ‘Birds Of Fire” (1972)/ “Visions Of The Emerald Beyond” (1974)

Michael Mantler : “No Answer” (1973) / “Silence” (1976)/ “Movies” (1977)

Wayne Shorter : “Supernova” (1969)

Return To Forever : You’re Everything (1972)/ “Hymn To The Eleventh Galaxy” (1973)

Weather Report : Orange Lady (1971) /Boogie Woogie Waltz (1973) / “Black Market” (1975)

Tony Williams Lifetime : “Turn It Over” (1971)

 

3. Brass & Big Band Jazz Rock:

 

Blood , Sweat & Tears : Blues Part 2 (1969)/ “New Blood “ (1972)

Chicago Transit Authority : “ Live At Carnegie Hall” (1971)

Flock : “Clown (1969)/ “Dinosaur Swamps” (1970)

Ides Of March : Vehicle (1970)

Frank Zappa : “Chunga’s Revenge” (1970)/ “The Grand Wazzoo” (1972)/ Waka Jawaka (1973)

United Jazz and Rock Ensemble (all star band featuring John Hiseman - drums, Eberhard Weber - bass, Volker Kriegel - guitar, Wolfgang Dauner - keyboards, Barbara Thompson - saxes and flute, Charlie Mariano - saxes, flute, nagaswaram, Ian Carr - trumpet, Ack van Royen - trumpet and flugelhorn, Albert Mangelsdorff - trombone) - Live im Schützenhaus (1975)

 

4. European Jazz Rock :

 

Burnin Red Ivanhoe : “ M144” (1969)

Krokodil : Looking At Time (1972)

Magma :  Stoah (1970)

Jean Luc Ponty : It Must Be A Camel (1969)/ Cantaloupe Island (1969)

Terje Rypdal : Keep It Like That Tight (1971)

Supersister : “Iskander” (1973)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2007 at 17:09
I would like to add one of today's best big bands: the WDR big band (WDR is a radio a and tv station with 5 radio channels, one tv channel and participation in a 2nd tv channel), here a link to their homepage:
http://www.wdr.de/radio/orchester/big_band/eng/index.phtml


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2007 at 20:33
 
Originally posted by Alucard Alucard wrote:

The following list come from the Jazz-Rock chapter of the ‘Dictionnaire du Jazz‘[Laffont] (1994) written by Xavier Daverat. I don’t agree with everything,  but in a whole it gives a good overlook over Jazz –Rock and the subsections make sense  in terms of developpment of the genre. Records are in quotations marks songs without.

 

1.Proto Jazz-Rock /British Jazz-Rock:

 

Blodwyn Pig - "Ahead Rings Out" (1969)

Graham Bond:  The Grass Is Greener (1963)/ Walkin In The Park (1966)

Colosseum : “Those Who Are About To Die Salute You” (1969)/ “Live” (1971)

Dada : “Dada” (1971)

Dick Heckstall Smith : The Pirate’s Deam (1972)

King Crimson :  Lizard (1970)/ “Islands” (1971)

Manfred Mann: “Chapter Three” (1970)/ “Solar Fire”(1974)

Matching Mole : “Little Red Record” (1972)

Mogul Trash : “Same” (1971)

Nucleus : “We’ll Talk About It Later” (1971)

Soft Machine : Out Bloody Rageous (1970)/ “Six” (1973)

Wizzard : Ball Park Incident (1973)

Robert Wyatt : “Rock Bottom” (1975)


 

2. US Jazz-Rock:

 

Carla Bley : “Escalator Over The Hill” (1968-71)

Gary Burton : Open Your Eyes, You Can Fly (1973)

Stanley Clarke : “Journey To Love” (1976)

Billy Cobham : “Spectrum” (1973)

Larry Corryell : “Spaces” (1969)

Miles Davis : “In A Silent Way” (1969)/ “Bitches Brew (1969)/ “ At Fillmore” (1970) / “Live Evil” (1970)

Al DI Meola : Suite , Golden Dawn (1976)

Jan Hammer : “The First Seven Days” (1975)

Herbie Hancock : “Fat Albert Rotunda” 1970)/ “Sextant” (1972)/

Keith Jarrett : “Hymn & Spheres” (1976)

John Mc Laughlin “ My Golas Beyond (1970)/ A Love Supreme (woth C. Santana) (1973)

Mahavishnu Orchestra : ‘Birds Of Fire” (1972)/ “Visions Of The Emerald Beyond” (1974)

Michael Mantler : “No Answer” (1973) / “Silence” (1976)/ “Movies” (1977)

Wayne Shorter : “Supernova” (1969)

Return To Forever : You’re Everything (1972)/ “Hymn To The Eleventh Galaxy” (1973)

Weather Report : Orange Lady (1971) /Boogie Woogie Waltz (1973) / “Black Market” (1975)

Tony Williams Lifetime : “Turn It Over” (1971)

 

3. Brass & Big Band Jazz Rock:

 

Blood , Sweat & Tears : Blues Part 2 (1969)/ “New Blood “ (1972)

Chicago Transit Authority : “ Live At Carnegie Hall” (1971)

Flock : “Clown (1969)/ “Dinosaur Swamps” (1970)

Ides Of March : Vehicle (1970)

Frank Zappa : “Chunga’s Revenge” (1970)/ “The Grand Wazzoo” (1972)/ Waka Jawaka (1973)

United Jazz and Rock Ensemble (all star band featuring John Hiseman - drums, Eberhard Weber - bass, Volker Kriegel - guitar, Wolfgang Dauner - keyboards, Barbara Thompson - saxes and flute, Charlie Mariano - saxes, flute, nagaswaram, Ian Carr - trumpet, Ack van Royen - trumpet and flugelhorn, Albert Mangelsdorff - trombone) - Live im Schützenhaus (1975)

 

4. European Jazz Rock :

 

Burnin Red Ivanhoe : “ M144” (1969)

Krokodil : Looking At Time (1972)

Magma :  Stoah (1970)

Jean Luc Ponty : It Must Be A Camel (1969)/ Cantaloupe Island (1969)

Terje Rypdal : Keep It Like That Tight (1971)

Supersister : “Iskander” (1973)

 

 

 



A bit of a mess of a list isn't it? Would be far from happy to see this level of inaccuracy in PA for any artist's discography

 Dates wrong, titles wrong  ( 7th Galaxy!!!!), track titles mixed up with album titles - & Wizzard????
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 28 2007 at 00:25
I haven't noticed much discussion about the British jazz\rock group IF.  I found them while in college in the mid 70s and fell in love with them.  Sort of an edgier cross between Blood, Sweat & Tears and Chicago.  I have four of their albums (I know they have more):
 
 
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 28 2007 at 07:54
Grand band and my favorite brass rock group tending to jazz. Have you seen there is a good live recording available on CD (recorded in 1972 in Europe) - there is also another album Tea Break Over - which alas If are past their prime with only a few of the original line-up playing. Part of the band became Zzebra and of course by the 1979/80 the successful Morrisey-Mullen Band.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 28 2007 at 13:43
Originally posted by Dick Heath Dick Heath wrote:

Grand band and my favorite brass rock group tending to jazz. Have you seen there is a good live recording available on CD (recorded in 1972 in Europe) - there is also another album Tea Break Over - which alas If are past their prime with only a few of the original line-up playing. Part of the band became Zzebra and of course by the 1979/80 the successful Morrisey-Mullen Band.
I'm going to have to lighten my wallet a little and get this live cd.  I never saw them (one of the few bands I always wanted to see) so the live cd will be a must. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 28 2007 at 18:20
^^Gents, which is the best If album to start off with...?  If they compare favourably with e.g. Chicago Transit Authority's first, I'm interested...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 28 2007 at 23:21
I discovered prog through jazz rock, favorites of mine are Return to Forever, Caravan, and Billy Cohbam's solo work.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2007 at 03:22
Originally posted by Dick Heath Dick Heath wrote:

 

 A bit of a mess of a list isn't it? Would be far from happy to see this level of inaccuracy in PA for any artist's discography

 Dates wrong, titles wrong  ( 7th Galaxy!!!!), track titles mixed up with album titles (this is in fact intentional throughout the book records are in speach marks and tracks without  in italic ) - & Wizzard????

 
... and the guy even got payed for  it Wink, it's taken from the ‘Dictionnaire du Jazz‘[Laffont] (1994) , which is a really good reference book IMO, and I still think it's a good entry list and yes I agree with you the author should have been more careful,  Xavier Daverat deserves  a serious spanking....LOL
 
 


Edited by Alucard - January 29 2007 at 05:16
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2007 at 05:41
Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

^^Gents, which is the best If album to start off with...?  If they compare favourably with e.g. Chicago Transit Authority's first, I'm interested...
 
If or If 2 are equally good. As fan of both CTA and the early If albums, I think on the whole they are both great - and both still get regular listens in my household. CTA is more at the rock end of brass rock's sub-division of jazz rock, whilst If the jazz end. Ironically while I would call If a major brass rock band, they didn't play brass instruments, rather guitar, organ and woodwind in lead. Chicago used horns (the trombonist's (James Pankow?) arrangements did hit the button on a number of occasions, e.g. Mother), woodwind, organ, guitar in lead. In the past one or two folks have complained that they had problems with T Hodgkinson's voice  in If, personally I think it is one of those great British smoky soulful voices- up there with James Litherland (Colosseum, Mogul Thrash), Chris Youlden (Savoy Brown) Robert Palmer (on earlier albums, e.g. Sneaking Sally)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2007 at 05:52
Originally posted by dwill123 dwill123 wrote:

Originally posted by Dick Heath Dick Heath wrote:

Grand band and my favorite brass rock group tending to jazz. Have you seen there is a good live recording available on CD (recorded in 1972 in Europe) - there is also another album Tea Break Over - which alas If are past their prime with only a few of the original line-up playing. Part of the band became Zzebra and of course by the 1979/80 the successful Morrisey-Mullen Band.
I'm going to have to lighten my wallet a little and get this live cd.  I never saw them (one of the few bands I always wanted to see) so the live cd will be a must. 
 
Morrisey Mullen Band was built around Scot's Jim Mullen from the Average White band and Dick Morrisey from the UK 60's jazz  scene and of course If. Their first album was Cape Wraith (on Harvest Records' short-lived jazz rock off-shoot - the other release was an album by Robert Ahwah and Max Middleton both ex Jeff beck and Hummingbird), in the 80's they were more popular on the jazz dance scene in Europe. ( A spin-off band lead by the American bass player of MMB, was known as Hubbards Cupboards). Dick Morrisey was ill for a long time through the 90's and alas died too young. Jim Mullen subsequently moved to much straighter jazz - some albums on Voiceprint Records (including a couple of albums with Gary Husband playing drums - in a way you won't expect from Level 42 and Allan Holdsworth's European drummer). If's vocalist T Hodkinson it has been reported (alas when the former members of If came together for Dick Morrisey's funeral), still sings on the Lancashire circuit in the UK.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2007 at 07:10
When documenting on the Jimi Hendrix Experience, I read that Mitch Mitchell's drumming was of fundamental influence for the development of mature jazz-rock, mainly (only?)because of his "interplay" style of relating with the other instruments, and not just backing. What would you say about that, Mr. Heath? I also remember reading he played in actual jazzrock projects but I can't recall whether any release was involved.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2007 at 07:28

John "Mitch" Mitchell (born 9 July 1947 in Ealing, Middlesex) was a drummer for The Jimi Hendrix Experience.

He was one of the most influential drummers of the late 1960s and early 1970s. In the few years before joining The Experience he was known locally as an outstanding session drummer (and had even hosted a children's programme on TV - probably a follow-on from his stage school training as a youngster). Known amongst his music mates in 1964 as the only musician they knew with a new car.

He is most noted for his work with The Jimi Hendrix Experience, and praised for his legendary works on such songs as Manic Depression, Voodoo Child (Slight Return), Fire and Third Stone from the Sun. Mitchell came from a jazz background and like many of his drumming contemporaries he was strongly influenced by the work of Elvin Jones, Philly Joe Jones, and Art Blakey. He brought this dynamic, flowing style to the group, and was given the freedom to "take it out there" along with Jimi Hendrix, while still keeping the grooves grounded and solid.

Mitch pioneered a style of drumming which would later become known as fusion. This is a "lead" style of playing typified by chops-heavy interplay with lead instruments such as guitar or keyboards, and the melding of jazz and rock drumming styles. In late 1966, this expressive and flamboyant style of playing was unheard of in rock. Drums had always been expected to stay in the background, locking down the groove with the bass. Along with Hendrix's groundbreaking guitar work and songs, Mitch's playing helped to redefine rock music.

Mitch was Hendrix's most important musical collaborator, playing in Hendrix's Experience trio from October 1966 to mid-1969, his Woodstock band in August 1969, and also his "Cry of Love" band in 1970. Hendrix would often record tracks in the studio with just himself and Mitch, and in concert the two fed off of each other to exciting effect.

Mitch played in the band The Dirty Mac which was put together for The Rolling Stones Rock and Roll Circus in 1968. The band contained John Lennon as "Winston Leg-Thigh" as vocalist and rhythm guitarist, Eric Clapton as guitarist, Keith Richards as bassist, and Mitch Mitchell as drummer. They recorded a rendition of the song Yer Blues, as well as a jam called Whole Lotta Yoko.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2007 at 08:03
Originally posted by pero pero wrote:

John "Mitch" Mitchell ...

Mitch pioneered a style of drumming which would later become known as fusion. This is a "lead" style of playing typified by chops-heavy interplay with lead instruments such as guitar or keyboards, and the melding of jazz and rock drumming styles.
 
Mitch Mitchell influenced Jack DeJohnette, Tony Williams and Billy Cobham???


Edited by dwill123 - January 29 2007 at 08:04
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2007 at 09:40
Originally posted by dwill123 dwill123 wrote:

 
Mitch Mitchell influenced Jack DeJohnette, Tony Williams and Billy Cobham???
 
 
Hoping your'e jokingAngry
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2007 at 10:01
Originally posted by Dick Heath Dick Heath wrote:

Originally posted by dwill123 dwill123 wrote:

 
Mitch Mitchell influenced Jack DeJohnette, Tony Williams and Billy Cobham???
 
 
Hoping your'e jokingAngry
A slightly cynical question for sure. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2007 at 12:13

interesting so Dwill , the 3 drummers you mentionned played all in the Jazz rock period of Miles Davis and are  among the most significant modern Jazz drummers

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Explain the meaning of this song and share it"

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2007 at 12:36
I was trying to be facetious in my comments.  I had never heard Mitch Mitchell described as being pioneering especially in the jazz-rock areana.
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