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Trickster F. 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2006
Location: Belize
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Points: 5308
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 Posted: January 20 2007 at 14:44 |
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Hackett can hack it, so him.
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MajesterX
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 30 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 513
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 14:15 |
 Mr. Sanchez wrote:
Hahaha... I love these polls..
Petrucci is just a Guitarist, Hackett is a musician.
Personal preference is the winner here.
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I'd like to see your definition of a musician please.
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Forgotten Son
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 13 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1356
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 14:54 |
Cygnus wrote:
srbruno wrote:
Hackett defintly had a very strong influence on guitarists that cxame after him...but in the case of mere skill and overall talent i think Petrucci takes it away. He has all the skill Hackett has and more.. i think hackett may write a little bit better than Petrucci but again skill wise Petrucci wins in my eyes.. |
Such as???Petrucci by far...
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Francis Dunnery, Brian May, Yngwie Malmsteen, Roine Stolt, Alex Lifeson etc all cite him as being an influence on their playing to some degree.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
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Points: 19557
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 15:11 |
akin wrote:
Hackett in Genesis was not that good mainly because he didn't have many spots as the band was keyboard driven. But man, check his solo stuff. The classical songs are fantastic.
Hackett was not good in Genesis, HACKETT WAS PERFECT FOR GENESIS.
Genesis music required a person able to create atmospheres, he was the support of the band along with Banks, many of the sounds that most people believe are keyboards are in fact created by Hackett with his unique style before the MIDI guitar was invented.
Remember Hackett's performance in The Return of the Giant Hogweed is historical, nobody ever before dared to bring the tapping technique to Rock, he was the predecessor.
The prove of how good he was in Genesis is that when he left, the band lost everything, not even Gabriel's departure caused so much damage to Genesis musically.
I heard a Gabriel interview about Hackett's audition and he said that while all the other guitar players were doing speed masturbation and trying to be the new Hendrix or Santana (there is only one Hendrix and Santana), Hackett started working on atmospheres and they decided for him inmediately.
Hackett in the other hand says that he noticed that Genesis music required more depth and atmosphere, it was easy for him to make an amazing solo to impress the band (Most bands would had hired a flashy guitar player more easily) but he heard Genesis music, knew what was missing there and added it, took the risk and was hired, that's what a real musician does.
IMO Hackett is more responsible of the Genesis trademark sound than Banks, Banks is the composer but Steve added what the band was lacking of.
So Hackett wins by a mile.
There we agree.
Iván
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Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 21 2007 at 22:55
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Raff
Special Collaborator
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Joined: July 29 2005
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Points: 24429
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 15:11 |
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Neither is my favourite guitarist, though I'd take Hackett over Petrucci any day. JP may be superior in a technical sense, but Hackett's playing has much more feeling to these ears. Sorry, DT fans - this is not gratuitous bashing, but just a question of personal taste, as all art is.
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Cygnus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 12 2005
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Points: 520
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 15:29 |
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Chus
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: Venezuela
Status: Offline
Points: 1991
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 15:30 |
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I prefer Hackett but I wouldn't go as far as saying that Hackett has more skill than Petrucci (technically), nor the other way around. In fact we should only rely on subjective criterias when comparing the two; it's more accurate
Edited by Chus - January 21 2007 at 15:33
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Jesus Gabriel
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Forgotten Son
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 13 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1356
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 15:36 |
Cygnus wrote:
Because i have read May's influences..Steve Hackett isn't one of them..
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"He [Brian May] said to me, he was aware of the early GENESIS material, in
particular, "Musical Box", which was on the album "Nursery Cryme". And
I played there a harmony guitar solo on the end of that, and he said to
me that I had influenced him. I was completely out of way with this
because I always thought that his harmony guitar style was something
which he really came up with and pioneered it. But I used to do a thing
like that from time to time." http://www.dmme.net/interviews/hackett.html
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Sasquamo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 26 2006
Location: United States
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Points: 828
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 21:55 |
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"Hackett because he was in Genesis, one of the classic prog bands, and Petrucci is in Dream Theater (need I comment)"
Seriously, that's what it comes down to. I choose Petrucci.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 22:50 |
Sasquamo wrote:
"Hackett because he was in Genesis, one of the classic prog bands, and Petrucci is in Dream Theater (need I comment)"
Seriously, that's what it comes down to. I choose Petrucci.
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It's your option to choose Petrucci, but don't be unfair, many members have given solid arguments to justify Steve Hackett being better according to their opinion.
Hackett's contribution as a soloist is as important as his contribution to Genesis if this is possible, but again it's a matter of taste.
Iván
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Chus
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: Venezuela
Status: Offline
Points: 1991
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 23:01 |
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saying "Hackett by a mile" is pretty much exaggerated. I'll give you that Hackett was FAR more influential than Petrucci; but Petrucci's TECHNICAL skill is obvious. Still I prefer Hackett, but that doesn't make him better than Petrucci TECHNICALLY-WISE (put it in capitals so there's no confusion)
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Jesus Gabriel
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bluetailfly
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1383
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 23:14 |
Chus wrote:
saying "Hackett by a mile" is pretty much exaggerated. I'll give you that Hackett was FAR more influential than Petrucci; but Petrucci's TECHNICAL skill is obvious. Still I prefer Hackett, but that doesn't make him better than Petrucci TECHNICALLY-WISE (put it in capitals so there's no confusion) |
Being technically skillful is nothing unless you have an aesthetic gift. Without the ability to move some one musically, technical skill is worth nothing...nothing.
There are tens of thousands of guitarists who are technically skillful, who can play rings around a lot of talented guitarists, but they will go nowhere because they don't have a musical gift.
My point is, if you're going to argue that Petrucci's got it over Hackett, I think you'd better emphasize his musical talent, e.g., chord phrasing, melodic soloing, intensity of voicing or something, not just his technical ability, because that's not impressive to those who are knowledgeable of the guitar and the music it can make.
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"The red polygon's only desire / is to get to the blue triangle."
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Chus
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: Venezuela
Status: Offline
Points: 1991
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 23:22 |
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^^ I'm not saying otherwise.. and I'm not talking about just shredding.. it's the way Petrucci shreds (and the way he chooses his notes and scales, also the way he does arpeggios, legato, etc.).. I know he does mainly guitar masturbation but noone could say that Petrucci lacked skill... However I'm more than sure technical skill is not the only attribute, but it's one which should be credited alongside the ability to convey the message (in which IMO Hackett wins; most of the people listening to Petrucci's solo just wants a badarse solo, whilst we want Hackett to speak through his guitar).
BTW I've already made it clear I prefer Hackett
Edited by Chus - January 21 2007 at 23:24
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Jesus Gabriel
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bluetailfly
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 28 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 1383
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 23:27 |
Sorry, I should have written "...if one is going to argue..." I didn't mean to direct it at you. 
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"The red polygon's only desire / is to get to the blue triangle."
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Chus
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: Venezuela
Status: Offline
Points: 1991
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 23:29 |
^^ don't worry, didn't take it directly
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Jesus Gabriel
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 27 2004
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Posted: January 22 2007 at 01:43 |
I understand that somebody likes Petrucci more if you like Metal or Prog Metal, but being skilled is much more than just being fast, lets see.
Being skilled among other atributes requires:
I.- Versatility: Being able to play different styles and genres, Steve Hackett has performed and composed:
- Symphonic
- Avant
- Fusion
- Jazz
- Classical Guitar
- Acustic non Classical guitar
- POP
- Rock
- Ambient/Atmospheric
Petrucci only Metal or Prog Metal
II.- Adaptability: Being able to play music from different authors (With your own arrangements) and do it well, Steve Hackett has performed and arranged for one concert music from:
- Genesis
- King Crimson
- Asia
- Own stuff
Never seen Petrucci do that, maybe but not sure.
III.- Being Innovative: Hackett will be remembered as the master of atmospheres and for being the first guitar player ever to adapt the tapping technique not only to Prog Rock but to Rock in general, Petrucci hasn't done anything that Vai, Satriani or Malmsteen haven't done before him.
IV.- Being able to play with first level musicians: Hackett has played with:
- Peter Gabriel
- Mike Rutherford
- Tony Banks
- Phil Collins
- Chester Thompson
- John Hackett
- Brian May
- Sally Oldfield
- Percy Jones (Eno, Brand X,)
- Johny Gustavson (Brian Ferry, Roxy Music, Kevin Ayers)
- Phil Ehart
- Steve Walsh
- Tom Fowler (Zappa, Mothers of Invention, Jean Luc Ponty)
- Richie Havens
- Graham Smmith
- Nick Magnus (Renaissance)
- Colin Blunstone
- Steve Howe
- Bill Bruford
- Paul Carrack
- Tony Levin
- Ian Mc'Donald
- Pïno Paladino
- Peter Banks
- Jan Akkerman
- John Wetton
- Julian Colbeck
Among endless others and done it well always, he changes lineups and more important, this first class musicians are willing to accept his invitations and play with him, I don't believe it's the case of Petrucci.
V.- Just a quote:
- Alex Lifeson (1984 Guitar magazine): "Yes, Steve Hackett is so articulate and melodic, precise and flowing. I think our Caress of Steel period is when I was most influenced by him. There's even a solo on that album which is almost a steal from his style of playing. It's one of my favorites, called 'No One at the Bridge'."
When Petrucci gets that Curriculum vitae, then compare him with Hackett, you can like Petrucci more, but he's still various steps behind IMHO.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 22 2007 at 02:01
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Lystmaler
Forum Newbie
Joined: January 18 2007
Location: Norway
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Points: 20
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Posted: January 22 2007 at 02:50 |
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I think Petrucci is an amazing guitarist. He's able to blend a lot of styles in his play and he's great live.
"Petrucci only Metal or Prog Metal"
That statement is incorect. He has played "Classical Guitar" and "Acustic non Classical guitar" as you put it.
"Never seen Petrucci do that, maybe but not sure."
He play's a nice variety of styles in the official bootlegs where Dream Theater cover full albums with his own gear and equipment. The most recent one was a cover of Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon.
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Sasquamo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 26 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 828
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Posted: January 22 2007 at 09:22 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
I understand that somebody likes Petrucci more if you like Metal or Prog Metal, but being skilled is much more than just being fast, lets see.
Being skilled among other atributes requires:
I.- Versatility: Being able to play different styles and genres, Steve Hackett has performed and composed:
- Symphonic
- Avant
- Fusion
- Jazz
- Classical Guitar
- Acustic non Classical guitar
- POP
- Rock
- Ambient/Atmospheric
Petrucci only Metal or Prog Metal
It doesn't matter if Hackett has played in those genres, it's a matter of whether he plays them well. I have my doubts with his abilities in jazz and fusion. Also, just because you've never heard Petrucci play different doesn't mean he hasn't. I have a feeling he could pull off many different styles very well, it's something that comes from being very, very good.
II.- Adaptability: Being able to play music from different authors (With your own arrangements) and do it well, Steve Hackett has performed and arranged for one concert music from:
- Genesis
- King Crimson
- Asia
- Own stuff
Never seen Petrucci do that, maybe but not sure. I fail to see how making music for other bands makes you better.
III.- Being Innovative: Hackett will be remembered as the master of atmospheres and for being the first guitar player ever to adapt the tapping technique not only to Prog Rock but to Rock in general, Petrucci hasn't done anything that Vai, Satriani or Malmsteen haven't done before him.
Being an innovator doesn't always make you good at your innovation. And besides, since when do you have to make up a new way of playing to gain credibility. Maybe Petrucci doesn't use innovative techniques, but he plays innovative music, that's enough for me.
IV.- Being able to play with first level musicians: Hackett has played with:
- Peter Gabriel
- Mike Rutherford
- Tony Banks
- Phil Collins
- Chester Thompson
- John Hackett
- Brian May
- Sally Oldfield
- Percy Jones (Eno, Brand X,)
- Johny Gustavson (Brian Ferry, Roxy Music, Kevin Ayers)
- Phil Ehart
- Steve Walsh
- Tom Fowler (Zappa, Mothers of Invention, Jean Luc Ponty)
- Richie Havens
- Graham Smmith
- Nick Magnus (Renaissance)
- Colin Blunstone
- Steve Howe
- Bill Bruford
- Paul Carrack
- Tony Levin
- Ian Mc'Donald
- Pïno Paladino
- Peter Banks
- Jan Akkerman
- John Wetton
- Julian Colbeck
Among endless others and done it well always, he changes lineups and more important, this first class musicians are willing to accept his invitations and play with him, I don't believe it's the case of Petrucci. Come on, you're really not being fair here. Ever thought that maybe Petrucci doesn't want to play with anyone else? Another flaw with your list is that it's made up of what seems to be entirely musicians from 30 years ago who were around when Hackett was in his prime. Now if Petrucci were to play with modern musicians in his generation, would you call them first-level musicians. Not to mention that playing with famous people doesn't mean you're good, it just means you're very well-known and popular.
V.- Just a quote:
- Alex Lifeson (1984 Guitar magazine): "Yes, Steve Hackett is so articulate and melodic, precise and flowing. I think our Caress of Steel period is when I was most influenced by him. There's even a solo on that album which is almost a steal from his style of playing. It's one of my favorites, called 'No One at the Bridge'."
When Petrucci gets that Curriculum vitae, then compare him with Hackett, you can like Petrucci more, but he's still various steps behind IMHO.
Iván |
Well, the biggest problem I have with this is all the evidence you put forward to support an argument that comes simply down to playing tastes. Seems to me like you act as if choosing the better guitarist is like a scientific endeavor, finding lots of information and evidence to help form an opinion. I find it easier to just decide who I like better.
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Visitor13
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
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Points: 4702
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Posted: January 22 2007 at 09:40 |
bluetailfly wrote:
Being technically skillful is nothing unless you have an aesthetic gift. Without the ability to move some one musically, technical skill is worth nothing...nothing.
There are tens of thousands of guitarists who are technically skillful, who can play rings around a lot of talented guitarists, but they will go nowhere because they don't have a musical gift.
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All of which are completely subjective. My answer is - Hackett for acoustic, Petrucci for electric, though Hackett is more original and most likely the better guitarist overall.
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Chus
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: Venezuela
Status: Offline
Points: 1991
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Posted: January 22 2007 at 10:01 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
I understand that somebody likes Petrucci more if you like Metal or Prog Metal, but being skilled is much more than just being fast, lets see.
Being skilled among other atributes requires:
I.- Versatility: Being able to play different styles and genres, Steve Hackett has performed and composed:
- Symphonic
- Avant
- Fusion
- Jazz
- Classical Guitar
- Acustic non Classical guitar
- POP
- Rock
- Ambient/Atmospheric
Petrucci only Metal or Prog Metal
II.- Adaptability: Being able to play music from different authors (With your own arrangements) and do it well, Steve Hackett has performed and arranged for one concert music from:
- Genesis
- King Crimson
- Asia
- Own stuff
Never seen Petrucci do that, maybe but not sure.
III.- Being Innovative: Hackett will be remembered as the master of atmospheres and for being the first guitar player ever to adapt the tapping technique not only to Prog Rock but to Rock in general, Petrucci hasn't done anything that Vai, Satriani or Malmsteen haven't done before him.
IV.- Being able to play with first level musicians: Hackett has played with:
- Peter Gabriel
- Mike Rutherford
- Tony Banks
- Phil Collins
- Chester Thompson
- John Hackett
- Brian May
- Sally Oldfield
- Percy Jones (Eno, Brand X,)
- Johny Gustavson (Brian Ferry, Roxy Music, Kevin Ayers)
- Phil Ehart
- Steve Walsh
- Tom Fowler (Zappa, Mothers of Invention, Jean Luc Ponty)
- Richie Havens
- Graham Smmith
- Nick Magnus (Renaissance)
- Colin Blunstone
- Steve Howe
- Bill Bruford
- Paul Carrack
- Tony Levin
- Ian Mc'Donald
- Pïno Paladino
- Peter Banks
- Jan Akkerman
- John Wetton
- Julian Colbeck
Among endless others and done it well always, he changes lineups and more important, this first class musicians are willing to accept his invitations and play with him, I don't believe it's the case of Petrucci.
V.- Just a quote:
- Alex Lifeson (1984 Guitar magazine): "Yes, Steve Hackett is so articulate and melodic, precise and flowing. I think our Caress of Steel period is when I was most influenced by him. There's even a solo on that album which is almost a steal from his style of playing. It's one of my favorites, called 'No One at the Bridge'."
When Petrucci gets that Curriculum vitae, then compare him with Hackett, you can like Petrucci more, but he's still various steps behind IMHO.
Iván |
Petrucci is not just about speed (that's what Yngwie Malmsteen is for  ) He also happens to be a great improviser; knowing it's very difficult to do so (in fact there are about 142 books dedicated to improvising methods, which shows that improvising is not just throwing random notes in the air); now I don't know that much about improvising but Petrucci, who has studied in Berklee, surely has been exposed to this (and he seems to dominate that area a bit). Now as for Hackett, he doesn't seem like an improviser kind of guy to me, so I doubt about his abilities to play jazz.. then again I haven't heard his jazz playing (if you could recommend me something like that from him please do )... of course it doesn't mean that Petrucci is better because he can improvise, but I neither think Hackett is "better by miles".
And another thing... my father (a jazz-and-everything-else musician who hardly makes an unasked opinion) happened to wander in my room one time as I was watching Petrucci playing some of his solo songs.. my father said at once "that guy is good"... and trust me he doesn't say that much, especially about metal musicians... I could also say that about him even if you might know me as a metal-basher  .
But taste wins for me in the end
Edited by Chus - January 22 2007 at 10:03
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Jesus Gabriel
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Hackett or Petrucci?
