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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: January 03 2007 at 22:07 |
Perhaps. I'm thinking about opening up a politics thread in the DNRTM forum because I like talking about it. People need to have thicker skin and not be so combative about everything. And it seems that everytime these discussions get moving, there are threats to close it. I have been following this and I see no reason at all--unless you want to say it's strayed from the topic a bit (though it really hasn't)--why it should be closed. There are valid points being brought up on all sides.
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darksinger
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 1091
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Posted: January 04 2007 at 07:22 |
stonebeard wrote:
^ And Bush is responsible of the murders of Iraqi civilians in Haditha (via US soldiers) right? |
in war or any time you send troops anyplace, you will have those who act on their own. they did catch the ones who did the murders in haditha and give them a military trial, if i am correct? that is different from sending a federal swat team to visit residents in texas, an american state, and killing them because they legally owned guns. it would be the equivalent of the political leader of england sending military men into tyne and wear to serve a warrant or the political leader of norway sending troops into telemark to check on child welfare. this happened at least three times in the usa under the illustrious clinton. he sent troops into waco to first apprehend koresh on a fedral offense, a show of arms that went drastically bad for clinton's stormtroopers. he had every opportunity afforded him to handle it peacefully-koresh jogged and frequently left the compound, which they could have arrested him at any time, plus, a sheriff who knew koresh offered to go to the compound and talk him into coming to them and turning himself in. they refused to do any of it, showed up with a swat team and then got angry because a united states citizen defended himself. they used him shooting federal agents-who shot at him first without provocation-and the guise of child abuse-a state level crime-to justify what they did. i have read accounts and seen documentary footage that put delta force troops on the scene, plus there's the well-known footage of the tank-all federal crimes to use against united states citizens-to help kill-not arrest-koresh and his lot. the use of such troops and weapons can be authorized only on a level that the president was aware of it, being the commander in chief. this is a far different situation than troops in a foreign land acting on their own and in direct violation of orders or laws during a time of hostilities. another such incident occurred at ruby ridge, in which a man's wife and child-two people who offered no bodily harm to federal swat officers-were murdered by federal agents in order to demoralise the gun owners into giving up. the third was when a cuban father wanted to have his son back and the family of his wife refused. at first, the clinton administration put their faith into the state family courts, the legal deciding body of family disputes in florida, thinking the court would decide for the father. when it did not, clinton sent in a federal swat team to go against the wishes of a state court decision and kidnap the child. could you imagine this going on in england? or norway? or the netherlands?
and that still does not explain why clinton and his staff had thousands of fbi raw data files on political opponents, former republican staff, potential candidates should a republican president come in or others they deemed republicans critical off clinton. a raw data file is information collected, whether true or not, during investigations or background checks. it is all put in these files in order to keep information organized and is not meant to be seen by eyes outside the fbi. yet clinton had an ex-bar bouncer and a private investigator and others not authorized having access to these files that were retrieved and illegally kept in the white house offices. furthermore, there are accounts of clinton and his staff authorizing irs audits and pressuring the fbi into investigating the fired staff of the white house travel office and anyone he deemed a political opponent or critic.
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billbuckner
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 07 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 433
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Posted: January 04 2007 at 08:56 |
Where's the love for Buchanan? The Civil War could have been stopped if he had at least did something. Instead, he just sat there. Herbert Hoover also deserves some flak for his Depression policies. Jackson was an asshole as well, not only for his Nat.Am. policies, but for being one of the few presidents to be censured by the Senate.
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Meddler
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 29 2005
Location: Massillon
Status: Offline
Points: 881
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Posted: January 04 2007 at 14:12 |
All of them.
Edited by Meddler - January 04 2007 at 14:12
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[IMG]http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i165/amorfous/astro-1.jpg">
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OpethGuitarist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 25 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1655
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Posted: January 04 2007 at 17:25 |
All i have to say to most of you is to learn some sentence structure.
I realize this is an informal forum, but you'd get much more people to read your arguments if they were structured more properly. (ie. Use paragraphs, periods, commas, etc.)
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back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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1800iareyay
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2492
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Posted: January 04 2007 at 18:04 |
billbuckner wrote:
Where's the love for Buchanan? The Civil War could have been stopped if he had at least did something. Instead, he just sat there. Herbert Hoover also deserves some flak for his Depression policies. Jackson was an asshole as well, not only for his Nat.Am. policies, but for being one of the few presidents to be censured by the Senate. |
I mentioned Buchanan and Jackson in my post on page 7
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progismylife
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2006
Location: ibreathehelium
Status: Offline
Points: 15535
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Posted: January 04 2007 at 18:09 |
One of the worse presidents is James Polk. With his Manifest Destiny and causing wars with Mexico just to gain land.
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Man With Hat
Collaborator
Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
Status: Offline
Points: 166178
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Posted: January 04 2007 at 21:01 |
Either Reagan or w. Bush for the past forty years.
Edited by Man With Hat - January 04 2007 at 21:01
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: January 04 2007 at 21:06 |
darksinger wrote:
but he was responsible for the murders of people in waco and ruby ridge. |
jesus darksinger.. are you for real hahhaha.. to extremist groups on the right.. sure it was murder... to everyone else.. the direct result of messing with the FBI. If the man with badge and the gun shows up... don't fire.. drop the weapon... and then sue later. It is the American way... Seriously though... murder... then we should be goosestepping down mainstreet for Bush hahahha.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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markosherrera
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 01 2006
Location: World
Status: Offline
Points: 3252
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Posted: January 04 2007 at 21:08 |
Pestilence ...too much pestilence.
Edited by markosherrera - January 05 2007 at 19:32
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darksinger
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 1091
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Posted: January 05 2007 at 07:43 |
that should get you started.
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Sublimación
Forum Groupie
Joined: September 26 2006
Location: Chile
Status: Offline
Points: 85
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Posted: January 08 2007 at 21:55 |
fuking bush, he thinks he owns the world.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: January 08 2007 at 23:30 |
What really amazes me is that two persons that defend the same position use contradictory statements:
darksinger wrote:
in war or any time you send troops anyplace, you will have those who act on their own. they did catch the ones who did the murders in haditha and give them a military trial, if i am correct? that is different from sending a federal swat team to visit residents in texas, an american state, and killing them because they legally owned guns. .
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against:
E-Dub wrote:
Amendment II of our Bill of Rights reads:
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
Sort of an antiquated notion in this life and time. Wouldn't you agree? Situations change and one must go with the flow. |
I honestly don't know what position to take. whether it's an outdated Constitutional Amendment that allows to have an arsenal at home or the criminal Government attacking the right of the model citizens called the Davidians.
What should we follow, the total respect of the Constitution despite it's outdated (In this case phone taps would be illegal also) or go with the flow (Then it's Ok for actual Government to tap the phones).
My opinion is that Davidians had an arsenal and were dangerous, something had to be done, maybe mistakes were committed but that’s the risk you have to take in emergency situations and the risks you take when you rebel against the Government.
Hey, they had already killed four Federal Agents 51 days before the tragedy, as Micky said, you surrender first and sue later, more if you have innocent kids inside and you care for them.
In Russia gas was used in a theater captured by Chechens but the dose used was toxic and the antidote reached with some delay, killing more than 100 of the 800 hostages, this was supossedly a lesser risk and more pacific, but things went wrong.
This situations depend on a lot of planification and more luck.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 08 2007 at 23:33
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johnobvious
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 11 2006
Location: Nebraska
Status: Offline
Points: 1361
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Posted: January 09 2007 at 17:09 |
For the next one I just want a guy with a brain in his head and can keep his willy in his pants. I don't care what party you dig him (and I do mean him-if Hillary wins I'll die) out of.
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Biggles was in rehab last Saturday
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